Wall Mounted Radiator – Elec Oil Filled
Schwartz
| Posted in Energy, Heating & Insulation on
Hello, does anyone know if any company sells a wall mounted oil filled radiator in North America (Canada or US). I’ve found some from the UK, but I can’t seem to find any here.
I know that 120V plug ins are dime a dozen, but I really want to replace my electric baseboard with a 220V version that is permanently wall mounted. Anyone ever see any?
Replies
like these,
http://www.iapcooling.com/products.asp?id=57
That's the best I've seen in NA so far. I would prefer to find a vendor of the taller, narrower oil filled type, but this is better than the straight electic baseboard which tends to "burn" the air.
..what were those filled with?"
Most electric baseboards just have a long straight element with aluminum fins and are about the same length/watt as the one you referenced. The one you showed is filled with some liquid which moderates the heat (far nicer) but still looks like it has similar length/watt as a standard electric baseboard. The plug in electric types are usually oil filled and are much narrower but taller than the baseboard equivalents by wattage. I've seen them for sale in the UK as wall mounted units. Here (Canada, but it's the same in US) I can find electric panel heaters which are narrow and tall, but they're just straight electric, and not hydronic.
Edited 9/29/2005 9:01 pm ET by Schwartz
If I could trouble you again,
these heaters are 250W / ft and about 7A for the largest heater, that is almost the limit for the
circuits in the UK , I think they are 10A ..... correct ?
do you recall what the W / m were ?I don't think you are going to get ####standard heater >1500W that is oil-filled !
That link sells a Euro- style wall heater but it is "dry "
"
"circuits in the UK , I think they are 10A ..... correct ?"As I understant it there general purpose receptacle circuits are a 240/30 amp RING circuit.The circuit starts at the panel and is a loop that returns to the panel. Thus any receptacle is feed from 2 directions and thus can use smaller wires.The plug has a fuse in it more sized to the equipment.I kind of like the idea. Sorta like a distributed sub-panel.
geez, that's a lot of power for a "convenience "circuit, eliminates worrying about a break in the circuit though"
Look at a kitchen.One such circuit will handle a whole kitchen, including the DW and GD, except for a stove.You have enough diversity that you would never overload it.Unlike the US system that would have 2 120/20 for the counter top and dedicated ones for all of the fixed appliances.But you could still trip the breaker if the toaster and coffee maker ended up on the same circuit. While all of the other ones have zero load 90% of the time.
that circuiting may be the reason he can't find a wall mount oil filled heater with a larger wattage !"
Not true. The oil filled versions use the same amount of power as the very popular electric baseboard heaters available today in every hardware store. That is the reason I want a wallmounted hardwire 240V version because I can then supply it with a heating circuit. Using standard 14/2 romex for a heating circuit (@240V) I can supply up to 3600W (20A Breaker) watts of heating power or 2880W (15A Breaker).However, if I plug in a standard 1500W oil filled unit into a standard 15A/120V recepticle, it uses 12.5A or 80% (actually 100% if you consider the standard 80% derating of breakers) of my available power on the circuit. I can't even supply two rooms, and I'd have to run dedicated circuits to 2 special recepticles if I want to heat 2 rooms.Using 12/2 guage wire on a heating circuit (@240V), I can supply up to 4800W on a single 30A breaker. That is easily 3-4 rooms of heating on one circuit. My rooms in this case only require 1000W of heating, although I've been looking into the radiant ceramics (which I can get here it seems) and they seem to be more efficient. Edited 9/30/2005 6:08 pm ET by Schwartz
Edited 9/30/2005 6:09 pm ET by Schwartz
....your math is right, but you cannot protect 14/2 romex with a 20A breaker..or fuse ... the max ampacity is 15A for 14 ga. NM . and your calcs. show 15A at 240V = 3600W,, one other thing, the heaters you buy may require connections rated for 90 C,..... not 60C, I am not very familiar with Romex use ,
IMHO you would probably have to wire your heaters with an AC whip /conductors at the appropriate temp rating"
New romex is NM-B which is rated for 90, but you are still only allowed to use the 60 column for ampacity rating.But when derating you can start with from the 90 column. You use whatever is the lessor.The wire in NM-B is THHN.
got it, thanks Bill,
NM-B can be used for connecting the heaters, but the ampacity of 14 ga. is still 15A"
You would be right if you lived under NEC juristiction. In Canada, the CEC makes an exception for fixed Electric loads (for which a heater circuit qualifies) so they actually let you use the full ampacity of the 14/2 (15A) wire. This is for STATIC HEATING LOADS ONLY -- i.e. dedicated heater circuitIn order to use the full ampacity, you actually have to put a 20A breaker on the 14/2 circuit and this is allowed in this special case.When using 15A breakers, the maximum load is actually 2880W. The maximum length to the first heater is 82 ft.Most new Romex is rated for 90C. My rooms are newly renovated and wired.
I appreciate your explanation Schwartz !This discussion has reminded me of an article I read somewhere, regarding some fellows quest to determine true ampacity for 10 ga. I don't recall where I read it,
but this discussion points towards the ability for wire to carry varying amounts of current ....based on mere words in the respective Codes...nice chat ! many years ago in my ignorance I ran some #12 for temp. in a factory demolition, when the heat finally burned through the TW insulation, they were carrying ......87 AMPS.......you're Canadian?"
Yes, I'm from Toronto, but this stuff is for my cottage which is further NE in Ontario. I'm slowing renovating the whole thing (and re-wiring while I'm at it) and I just finished a couple of the bedrooms recently.With a few of the good links I got from this board, I'm now considering going with a ceiling cove mounted radiant heater. I've got most of the cottage rooms furnished with baseboard electric, but I thought I would put some nicer heaters into my daughter's and my rooms. I always found the heat from the oil filled rads much nicer, but after reading about the IR based radiant heaters, I'm strongly considering those. My understanding is that the code always allowed you to run full ampacity (15A for 14 gauge) but that the rules only allowed loading the breakers to 80% of their capacity. Under fixed electric load, the CEC allows us to make the exception and put the higher load breaker on the circuit as long as the actual load still falls within the ampacity of the wire. I guess they figure that the load is known and fixed, and since you can't plug anything into these circuits, there's no danger of overloading the wire.
...well I learned something today... Thanks again Schwartz"
Not oil filled but I have installed these and they are nice units.
http://www.convectair.com
Most are 220V, with a few 110 models. The 1500-watters I use are about $320.
you may want to browse through the 'grainger' site ... LOTS of stuff along these lines:
http://www.grainger.com
T.