Would it be wise to buy a water level? For basic carpentry work. Because of the cost and easy to use.
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Sure. I have two. One is old and rides on the truck. Very reliable as long as you remember to uncap the end, duh, and eliminate air bubbles. So reliable that I have used it to help recalibrate a friends laser level when it was discovered that it was off by about 3" in 10'.
The new one is a Zircon model with noisemaker so that it can be used effectively without a helper. Even at over 70+ feet it is more accurate than many laser levels. Compared to a very expensive laser level it was a toss up. Both were within about 3/16" of one another over about 50' and there was some question about which was more correct.
Cheap reliable and accurate. What's not to like. If you plan to have a helper there is little need, IMHO, to buy a commercial model. Just buy the appropriate length of 5/16" ID vinyl tubing and grab a couple of golf tees for plugs.
Yes water levels can be very accurate. But "ease of use", believe me a hundred things can go wrong if your not familiar with their inherant difficulties, ie: it takes two people to properly use it, there must be no air bubbles in the line, if the part of the line is in the shade you'll get an inaccurate reading, readings can change from day to day due to air pressure or even hour to hour if a front is moving through, the caps must be removed from both ends and never raise one end high enough to spill water from the other end or all your previous readings will be out the window and you'll need to start all over again.
Accurate, Yes.
Easy, only with practise, practise, practise.
I wholeheartdly disagree with your post.
"it takes two people to properly use it"
Get a bucket and fill half way with water. Insert one end of hose into bucket and suck on other end to get the bubbles out. When all the air is out of the line use just like a transit. You have a level plane, even around corners and places where no line of sight is availabe.
"readings can change from day to day due to air pressure or even hour to hour if a front is moving through"
If you are using a two person level like you suggest, air pressure would have no effect on the readings. The pressure is equal (for all practical purposes) on each end, so the level plane is retained.
"the caps must be removed from both ends and never raise one end high enough to spill water from the other end or all your previous readings will be out the window and you'll need to start all over again."
I think this is akin to complaining that, to use a circular saw, the cord has to be plugged in properly and the blade has to be installed. So therefore a circular saw is not convenient.
"Easy, only with practise, practise, practise."
Water levels don't take that much practice.
Jon Blakemore
I own 2 waterlevels and have used both with success, but my point is that the first few times by myself were frustrating.
When your 30 feet from the other ends or around the corner it's not that difficult to raise your end too high, and when your trying to get more that one corner of a plot leveled it's imperative that the primary point remain stationary (thus the second person to let you know or the newer type of water level with the beeper).
I'm not sure that I understand your logic. Keep your thumb over the end of the tube when in transit, and when setting a level point watch the water line. If it is rapidly approaching the top of the tube, use the thumb.
"when your trying to get more that one corner of a plot leveled it's imperative that the primary point remain stationary"
Why? If you are using a one man water level your level plane is a constant as long as your bucket doesn't move.
Jon Blakemore
The type of water level I use has graduated tubes on both ends with zero in the middle and plus-minus scales running up and down the tube. If your first reading is say, plus 2 for level then ideally anywhere else you get a plus 2 reading will be level with the first reading. Unfortunately the tube is only about a foot tall and in order not to spill I have to keep the end I'm moving around at about the same level with the stationary end. To be honest I never thought about putting my thumb over the tube end, I'll have to give it a try. Thanks for the tip.
Anyway, I think this whole conversation began with the assumption that water levels were easy to use. Judging be the amount of discussion and the varying types of levels out there, I still think practice, practice, practice is a good idea.
Duplex nails for concrete forms make great plugs for 5/16" tube. Stick them in the tube heads first and they seal perfectly. Andy, you can my "Tips of the trade" check to my mailing address. Joe H
Ah, yes. I remember it well. The day I threw my Zircon away. Such bliss! I dragged that damn hose farther than anyone should, and more often than I care to remember. Check for bubbles, check for kinks. Is it pinched around the corner? is it stuck on that nail. Why is today`s benchmark different than yesterdays? Hmmm!? Check it again? I think not! I think I deserve a Spectra. Am I rich? ...No! Am I sane?...Now I am (sorta`). Was it worth it?...No question! I`ll race any of you for set-up and repeatable accuracy (3/32 nds per 100'...claimed and checked!) any day. Make it easy on yourselves, though, pick a day above 30 degrees or you`ll really look silly. I`ll be putting mine back in the box before you get the hose untangled and the kinks out. And yes, I can calibrate it on site any time, so don`t even go there. ( sometimes I don`t like myself very much...) O.K., flame me!
My Zicron water level blows...might just be mine but the sound doesnt work well when its level...I mean the sound works but not where its level exactly..I hate it. My regular water level ( a bottle of water with a 50' clear tube works awesome ) My water level has an attachment on both sides where you can use stakes put in the ground and along side the level at any height you desire as well as a chain around the top you can hang from a nail.......I never needed two people to use it at all....Why would you need two peeps? I sided my entire house with it (see website below). I highly reccomend water levels......water seeks its own level as do craftsman....lol
BE well
Namasts
Andy
It's not who's right, it's who's left ~ http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
wood - look into the versa-level by the pierce brothers it's @ 40.00 one man operation , been using them for about fifteen years . and i have never had a problem yet, just have to check for bubbles, and i put a blast of bleach to deter any fun-guy build up. there the best water level out there to day. i change the water every month also . comes with a 3/8" tube at 50 ' and a resivoir that can be hung by a chain and w/ a tupper-ware thing that holds the water. it built to last. the first one the put out werent as sturdy but now they up-graded the component. a decent thumbs up.......... cheers bear
Here is contact info if anyone is interested. I don't know how current it is though.
Price Brothers Tool Co1064 Machin Ave, Novato, CA 94945800-334-8270 or 415-897-3153Yes, I am serious. And don't call me Shirley.
yeah thanks mark didnt have that info on hand, shirley a great water level as far water levels go........ bear
I think Blondie was talking about using just a tube with water in it. I use one with two people for siding, in particular, cause I usually have at least two people, and it is is simple and acurate if it is acknowledged that the bottom of the meniscus(the downward curve of the water in the tubing) is what ya mark.
I don't quite get the electronic water levels, or the original question about buying one, unless you just meant some clear plastic tubing. I've got 100', 75', 50', and 25' of 3/8" clear (well, it started out clear, that bleach tip works) plastic tubing, got a sheetrock mud bucket with a hole drilled in the lid and some rubber bands...maybe 15 bucks invested...I loop the rubber bands around the end of the tube so I can hook it to a nail or whatever, to keep the water in...the best end clips I've had were from a home brewing store (I was there on behalf of the temperance league, of course) slipped over the tube and had a toothy cutoff action and could hang on a nail ( no wonder so many people like beer)...but I got drunk, and lost them....so what's with the electronic things? Aren't you level when the water stops going up and down? You need a beep to tell you?
I use a laser, and spirit levels when I need too, also...
Edited 8/27/2002 6:38:03 PM ET by bucksnort billy
I put small ball valves on the ends of my tube and filled it with anti freeze ( auto motive, not spirits like BB's level) That was five years ago and never changed it yet. A buddy of mine suggested a few drops of food color added to the water makes sighting easier.
I worked on accoustical ceiling job one winter in an unheated building.One morning the water level was frozen. My partner poured Southern Comfort in the tubing when it thawed out.We used the level the following morning, the mix of water and booze was unfrozen, but the level lines we struck were WAY out of level. I lined a cardboard box with styrofoam and put a drop light inside , this worked. We saved the Southern Comfort for our Christmas party.
> the mix of water and booze was unfrozen, but the level lines we struck were WAY out of level.
I can see two possibilities.
1. If the mixture was not uniform throughout the system, you'd have fluids with different densities at the two ends, which would be sort of like an old fashioned beam scale with different amounts of weight on its ends.
2. If you used the Southern Comfort for its original purpose in addition to putting some in the water level, well..... ;-)
-- J.S.
Here's another vote against the zircon. I've found 2 models.....one cheaper and one more expensive. Couldn't get either one to work. Returned both quickly after buying.
Started with just a tube.......still working with just a tube. Jeff.......Sometimes on the toll road of life.....a handful of change is good.......
My only complaint, it is mentioned in the manual, is that the arrow on the side of the unit does not necessarily line up with the trigger pin in the tube. I don't understand why Zircon couldn't calibrate this but once I knew about it and made a new mark that supercedes the original everything worked out well. From that point on accuracy has been right on.
A friend was about to return his Zircon because of inaccuracies when I mentioned it. We made a new mark and confirmed the correction. He was satisfied as the the reliability of the system and, as far as I know, is still using it.
As for the freezing, in this location freezing is seldom a problem, I have heard that substituting windshield washer solution prevents freezing and makes the water easier to see. I would avoid any solution with ammonia in it as it could corrode the contacts.