Just came back from starting a job that I looked at last week for a friend. He had a “small leak” from his shower stall. “I’ve fixed it a couple times with caulk” he told me but wanted it done correctly. The shower stall is about 5 years old, part of a 20K remodel of his bath. Done by a highly recommended bath outfit…
The high points of this superb craftsmanship include: drywall construction throughout (with nothing at the seams at all), tiles held in place with dabs of adhesive, a shower door with a missing seal at the bottom, and no support under the shower pan. Sweeeeeeet… His insurance co has Service Master coming this afternoon to “remediate” the black mold and dry out the ceiling and wall cavities, I’m working up a price to send the adjuster…
PaulBinCT
Replies
Paul.
In the third pic, looking at the top of the shower base at the inside corner: Do you think this base was not meant to have a corner come in at the threshold sides? Seems if it's installed that way no amount of caulk is going to ever work keeping the water out. Are you using the same base of starting over?
A great place for Information, Comraderie, and a sucker punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
Quittin' Time
yah, lo0oks like that curb should have the shower door sitting on itinstead of being enclosed behind the flanking wall.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
I have requested the install details for a Marbelite shower base and two sidewalls, glass two sides. I'd be interested in others attempts to waterproof those lower connections. What do you think? Same as tile?
thanks.A great place for Information, Comraderie, and a sucker punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
Quittin' Time
What do you think? Same as tile?
as in ... run the rubber membrane up the wall behind the tile a coupla inches?
that's my whole beef with preformed pans ... unless they have a tiling flange ... it all depends on the floor pan/wall joint to be caulked ... to be "waterproof" ... which caulk ain't!
swanstone is an example of a pan done right ... they have a flange ... which gets overlapped by the swanstone wall panels. As long as there's an overlap ... water won't find it's way uphill.
I trust my own site built tile pans over anything off the shelf ... unless it's a one piece stall.
Jeff Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
That's a tough one. Are you thinking of running the panning material fully under the base to a mud style drain? Even with that you would have " runout " at the two glass sides. (no upturn of a curb)
Sounds to me like this may be a better application for mud.
I would be real interested in what the manufacturer thinks is the preferred method.Remodeling Contractor just on the other side of the Glass City
With the premade base, Manu. detail is set base against framing, run drywall down to within a half inch of the base lip (lip--1/2'' thick). Set wall panel down on flat edge of base (base edge here just wider than panel thickness). Caulk joint of panel to base with silicone.
I would use vicor over backer (sheetrock rec. by manu.), down over lip to flat part of base. With the sheet goods, anyone think a backer other than drywall (MR maybe) is necessary?A great place for Information, Comraderie, and a sucker punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
Quittin' Time
That's kind of what I figured the manufacturer would want.
I was hoping they would have done a little more homework / engineering that I could learn from.
I think you're right in adding the vycor and trying to do a better job.
Like I originally said - this is a tough one.
I still see alot of faith put into caulk instead of good design - (FHB)
Sounds like you're stuck between what the customer can afford, want, expect - and what would be a sure fire instalation. ( I would try for full mud and know it wouldn't leak - and with the backup of a pan )
FWIW - I have had good results with denshield's WR capabilities over WR drywall and it keeps your 1/2 in.
Am I correct in assuming this is not a tile surround?Remodeling Contractor just on the other side of the Glass City
You are right, cultured marble panel. Two sidewalls and glass with door on the other two sides. I like the denshield you mention. The only point of possible water intrusion is down at the base/side wall connection.A great place for Information, Comraderie, and a sucker punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
Quittin' Time
Well, with those materials and that scenario, I don't know what else you can do.
The only thing I might check is Vycor to Marblite compatability ( leaching, staining ) - not saying it would, but it would sure suck if it did.Remodeling Contractor just on the other side of the Glass City
leaching color, exactly. This is one of those situations as they don't want you to mount the drain assembly with plumbers putty. Always something.A great place for Information, Comraderie, and a sucker punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
Quittin' Time
look like a total gut and rebuild to me, showers are not to be taken lightly, lots of water, steam etc etc
cement board with thinset and tile is the only way to go, asfor the base, it should be in a bed of cement
I've told the HO that I feel the whole thing is going to be gutted and redone correctly... what a hack job, truly unbelievable.
PaulB
Paul, maybe this will make your customer feel better.
Looked at a "not so small" leak project couple days ago.
Little old lady died, and grandson who lives an hour away is supposed to be looking after the house. He hasn't been there since early December. Turned the heat down to save money. Gonna spend a whole lot more now. LOL.
Especially since the insurance lapsed on January 1st! Ouch!
Can't even get the exterior door shut everything is so swelled up.
Bowz
It's a complete gut and replace, because it'll be yours now.
I'm not sure I have pics but we successfully did 2 showers with mosaic tile on the base and larger tile on the walls about 7 years ago. I'm not sure if these things are still on the market - we used plastic pre-formed bases. They said you were supposed to set them in "bull" - we could never find out what "bull" was supposed to be - other than the obvious, so we figured we were on our own.
At the top of the "curb" (flat) we drilled four 1 1/4 or so holes with a hole saw. We set the base in fairly loose sand-mix concrete, then funneled loosely mixed concrete into the four holes. Of course the concrete shrunk back on the top of the curb (about 1/8 inch). For this we poured in epoxy. To get the epoxy in and make sure it filled the space we "hot glued" short lengths of plastic tubing up from the curb and kept them full.
We only drilled holes on the curb, since that was the high point. You have to watch using very much of that epoxy, because if it ends up very thick it will get too hot - I didn't believe the magnitude of this point, but it's true.
Ok, it seems like a lot of trouble, and it was - especially since we were having to design our own way. The benefits and results were good though - we ended up with a good shaped base that sealed well to the pipe and allowed a good tiling job.
We used the expensive epoxy based adhesive to stick the mosaic tile on the base. We mixed part of it (not recommended by the directions) together in a 2 gallon zip lock bag. It scared us - because the epoxy took overnight to set up. I'm looking for a picture of some of this.
Be careful when dealing with "black mold" or any other sort of mold.
The mold hysteria has died down, but hasn't gone away.
The reputable mold remediation companies I know insist on having a qualified expert (e.g., industrial hygienist) specify the scope of the work, which they then document they have fulfilled.
Depends on the extent of the mold, of course.
Also, use available resources such as the EPA remediation advice, the NYC Dept of health; and, another good one is
http://www.idph.state.il.us/envhealth/pdf/moldmildew.pdf
It's really very minimal Bob, I think the ins company just automatically does this whenever they hear water damage (we hadn't even opened up the walls when they made the arrangements).
PaulB
Edited 1/14/2006 11:51 am ET by PaulBinCT
Hey, this looks like my showers! Ok, that was cruel, as mine are worse, lol.
I am still seeking the stainless steel shower walls and pan with the least number/amount of seams. It would seem that I can get SS sheets without a problem, but finding someone to bend, cut, and mate (pan and wall pieces) is impossible.
For a 20K bill it's worth one phone call to a construction lawyer to find out the chances of recovering the cost.
The HO already has a call into his lawyer... ten bucks says the guy either changes his name every year, or has no assets.
"highly recommended bath outfit... "
"The HO already has a call into his lawyer... ten bucks says the guy either changes his name every year, or has no assets"
To me, this conflicts with one another. If the company is highly recommend as a bath outfit them I would think they'd a) still be around, or b) the HO is an idiot for not verifying referrals. He can't use the excuse like I do (first-time buyer). lol
Well, I think it's a bit of "B" mixed with some nievete... anyway, I imagine we'll see soon.