*
In the past month or so we have come across 2 shower pan installations with the same weird problem – 1 about 12 years old the other about 4.
We first noticed that grout was loose or missing, and on closer inspection found that tiles were actually loose. Tiles were set on the mud pans with a thin set mortar. We determined that water was filling the pan up to the level of the tile surface. When we took the drain cover off to try to look at the weep hole area we found a crystallized sort of goop – almost a stalagtite formation – completely filling the drain hole channel and coating the sides of the pvc drain pipe right down into the trap. On the older shower this stuff was rock hard so that we had to chip at it with a chisel – on the newer shower I was able to scrape it off with my pocket knife.
It appears that something is leaching out of the mud pan or that something is reacting with something else in the mud pan and creating a mineral deposit that plugs up the weep holes in much the same way that stalagtites are formed. Then the slab becomes ultra-saturated, and somehow eventually deteriorates the grout & thin set. The slab itself seems to be fine. When we discussed this with one of our tile suppliers he immediately said that it was due to urinating in the shower and that he had actually testified in court to that effect a number of times. Yet when I talked to the Materials & Methods group (can’t remember the exact name, but they apparently keep track of tile problems) listed in the back of Michael Byrne’s book, they had never heard of such a thing and were sceptical.
Has anyone else encountered this problem or know of a cause?
Thanks in Advance….
Cy Miller
Discussion Forum
Discussion Forum
Up Next
Video Shorts
Featured Story
Fine Homebuilding's editorial director has some fun news to share.
Featured Video
Highlights
"I have learned so much thanks to the searchable articles on the FHB website. I can confidently say that I expect to be a life-long subscriber." - M.K.
Replies
*
I'll take a guess.
Soluble salts(effloescnce?) or possibly the mud was mixed with a low grade latex admixture. I have seen this happen in tiled fountains when we used the old Laticrete 4237 admixture in place of water and the drypack fell below 50F for a couple days right after it was placed. Seems as though the latex could not get a proper cure at that temperature and eventually leached right thru the grout joints. Just layed on the grout and tile surface and got hard as rock. Had to use a surfactant to dissolve it (REMOVE by tec)
Jeff
*Jeff, I have seen the condition you speak of on large quarry tile installations,it usually happens immediately in the grout joints, and we wash the whole floor with a light acid amd seal it.We have asked anybody we can and never get a solid answer. We have attributed it to latex ad mix mixed with polymer modified thinset as it doesn't happen when we reduce the latex or cut it out all together.
*Calcium, like what messes up toilets? Stalactites are made of calcium carbonate (stalagmites are the ones that point up). Is the water hard?It'd be nice to get someone to identify the deposits you found. Urine? I find that very hard to believe, unless it's an elephant's shower or someone has very special mineral-laden urine (which can cause kidney stones, incidentally, which are usually calcium oxalate).I'd wager the other problems are secondary to the clogged drainage. Interesting problem.
*>>I'd wager the other problems are secondary to the clogged drainage. Interesting problem. >>I agree with that statement.I would also be interested in what type of aggregate(limestone from the neighbors driveway?) was packed around the weep holes of the 3 piece FHA adjustable drain and also the ph of the domestic water and also the ph of the cleaners used in the shower and also what type of pitch was available to direct water absorbed in the dry-pack towards the weep holes in the drain.Limestone? Stalactites-Stalagmites? Sulpher laden well water?Only brainstorming(clustering thoughts),Jeff
*
In the past month or so we have come across 2 shower pan installations with the same weird problem - 1 about 12 years old the other about 4.
We first noticed that grout was loose or missing, and on closer inspection found that tiles were actually loose. Tiles were set on the mud pans with a thin set mortar. We determined that water was filling the pan up to the level of the tile surface. When we took the drain cover off to try to look at the weep hole area we found a crystallized sort of goop - almost a stalagtite formation - completely filling the drain hole channel and coating the sides of the pvc drain pipe right down into the trap. On the older shower this stuff was rock hard so that we had to chip at it with a chisel - on the newer shower I was able to scrape it off with my pocket knife.
It appears that something is leaching out of the mud pan or that something is reacting with something else in the mud pan and creating a mineral deposit that plugs up the weep holes in much the same way that stalagtites are formed. Then the slab becomes ultra-saturated, and somehow eventually deteriorates the grout & thin set. The slab itself seems to be fine. When we discussed this with one of our tile suppliers he immediately said that it was due to urinating in the shower and that he had actually testified in court to that effect a number of times. Yet when I talked to the Materials & Methods group (can't remember the exact name, but they apparently keep track of tile problems) listed in the back of Michael Byrne's book, they had never heard of such a thing and were sceptical.
Has anyone else encountered this problem or know of a cause?
Thanks in Advance....
Cy Miller