We are getting ready to build a new home that happens to overlook a beautiful, although small, natural waterfall. The back porch will overlook the waterfall. We do not want to block the view of the waterfall with the typical porch railing. One person suggested that we should use a top rail only with some type of wire fencing underneath it to meet code. Any other ideas for a railing that would allow a great view without looking too tacky?
Thanks,
Kent
The end of this program will likely lead to higher energy bills and fewer business opportunities for the American people.
"I have learned so much thanks to the searchable articles on the FHB website. I can confidently say that I expect to be a life-long subscriber." - M.K.
Dig into cutting-edge approaches and decades of proven solutions with total access to our experts and tradespeople.
Start Free Trial NowGet instant access to the latest developments in green building, research, and reports from the field.
Start Free Trial Now
Replies
Cable railing is the most popular for this application but I like 2 1/2" galv steel electrical conduit for the top rail and 1" galv conduit for the lower railings set so you cannot pass a 6" ball through the railing per code in our area for horizontal railings. We break up custom bottle rocket launchers out of galv flashing to cap our 6x6 PT corner posts. Seam the edges so the drunks wont cut themselves while launching rockets at the neighbors. Here we're spanning almost 9 feet with a pretty good stiffness. We still screw both ends into the posts for liability assurance. Some people like to use the bottle rocket launchers as planters but that's a personal preference kind of deal.
Sorry if the pics are too big...
------------------
"You cannot work hard enough to make up for a sloppy estimate."
In most areas the code requires the bottom rail to be within 2" of the floor and the rest of the railings to not have any space greater than 4".
Not in NC. If vertical the railings must not pass a 4" ball if horizontal must not pass a 6" ball. top railing not less than 36" off adjacent floor when adjacent grade is more than 30" below the deck.------------------
"You cannot work hard enough to make up for a sloppy estimate."
>> In most areas the code requires the bottom rail to be within 2" of the floor... <<
That is a new one on me. The ones I'm familiar simply state that a 4" sphere can't pass through any point on the guardrail.
Has something to do with stopping a bottle or can from rolling off a 2nd level deck and hitting someone.
In what code is that?
I think you should avoid the ladder effect of the horizontal cables, check with the AHJ (building dept).
What about tempered glass?
Our code doesn't allow horizontal cable rails, unfortunately for us because that was our preference; your mileage may vary. Recycled sliding door glass turned sideways is popular here... it's tempered, cheap, and clear.
Scott.
Always remember those first immortal words that Adam said to Eve, “You’d better stand back, I don’t know how big this thing’s going to get.”
nem,
I am in the wire fence group.
We use "Hog Panels".
Come stock 10' x 36" or 48" flat sheets. We predrill the bottom and top rails for the vertical wires then place the bottom rail, then the panel, then the top rail.
Some have graduated sized openings from bottom to top. Incredibly strong and with heavy galvanization.
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
Edited 10/20/2007 2:32 am by dovetail97128
My first thought was horozontal cable (possible code issue), next tempered glass (really expensive) and then wrought iron. The last might be the most feasable. What about verticle steel cables? I've never seen it but I don't see why you couldn't come up with a design.
How high is the porch walking surface off the ground?
I was thinking barb wire. That will eliminate the climbing problem.
.
.
A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
Yea - I would imagine that most prisons have a nice view of the "outside". :-)
"most prisons have a nice view of the "outside". :-)"LOL, but wouldn't that be defined as torture?
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Hey I saw that movie! If Barb Wire was on my deck I think lots of guys would be climbing on her.
"I was thinking barb wire. That will eliminate the climbing problem."Nice touch. Would that be electrified or plain? :)
BruceT
As another has said, the cabling can tend to look a little like a ladder and perhaps too industrial.
So what I'm doing (also have a deck with a view element to it) is to build a bench seat 19" high. That leaves 17" for the cabling or 4 cable runs if I allow for a 1"+/- top rail.
The 19" high bench won't interfere with any view and reduces the cable/industrial look not to mention it makes the deck more usable.
Runnerguy
I installed tempered glass for the first time a little over a year ago. I framed three identical houses next to each other on a lake. Each HO wanted a different railing/spindle combination for their lakefront decks.
By far the tempered glass was the favorite. Only one of the thre HO's chose it. But I was glad to have the chance to install it.
With that view comes cleaning, the deck I put it on was on the walk out side of the house. Steep grade, ladder is not really a good option for a HO here. So they use rags and squeegees on poles. Thats the only bad thing with a glass spindle/railing combo, that I have encountered.
Matt
Stilletto-
Do you know roughly what the cost per foot was, (especially) for material? Was yours part of an off the shelf system or was it custom?
One of my vacation rentals needs a new railing next year and I was thinking of the glass as an option.
Don K.
EJG Homes Renovations - New Construction - Rentals
Don ..............cost ..........consider salvaged sliding glass door panels horizontal install...possible detailed by acid etching design or sandblasting stencil
Nails-
I love the idea of the used doors. Sadly, had a collection of them that went bye-bye for the price of the metal. Now I need to look for some more.
Etching and sandblasting would take away from the view. Don't like that idea as much.
Don K.
EJG Homes Renovations - New Construction - Rentals
Don ..........I didn't think much of the etching sandblasting idea either but the HO wanted a "theme" to follow the hunting cabin that overlooked the water. We started with small ducks in the lower corners of the panels and developed into reeds from the sides of other panels , geese in flight vee and of course the traditional Labador pups, all was done with a lot of thought in placement and actually "picture framed" the view. The HO later did some soft indriect lighting on the outside of the deck for a great visual effect at night (red lighting ...Night vision?). I came away humbled and proud of the HO innovative vision.
Picture framing is an interesting concept. I love the look, and when presented like that, rather than a whole window covering, it sounds more like it could be a nice thing.
Was the picture done with etching or sandblasting? Actually they are different processes. Who did it - homeowner or pro? I did one a couple years ago on a house that I redid, but it was a chemical "etching" - more like an applied chemical. Hard to do real sandblasting without the sand or the patterns.
OTOH, there's a company around here now that will print sandblasted pictures on clear paper for application to glass windows. They can even be peeled off and moved. They look good, but as soon as you touch them, you can tell they aren't sandblasted because there's no depth to the cut. I also don't know how well they would hold up in an exterior situation.
Don K.
EJG Homes Renovations - New Construction - Rentals
Were there any problems with birds hitting the glass panels?
I'm betting yes.Back when I worked for "the man". My office was on the 21st floor of a building downtown. One day a pigeon got fooled and realized it at the last moment and he "pulled" up, if you will but still went splatt. I had an almost perfect wing spread pigeon print on the window for two months.TFB (Bill)
I can't remember the costs.
I met up with a supplier and they measured for what they would send out for posts and railings. After I had all the posts up and the top and bottom rails I called in a local glass supplier and they came out and made the pieces of glass custom for the project.
When the glass showed up I simply removed the top rail, dropped the sheet of glass into the bottom rail and permanantly fixed the top rail. Very fast and easy, I would almost compare the costs as even after you figure in the labor for a whole deck worth of spindles.
The glass went very fast a 12x30 deck worth of glass sheets installed in under an hour.
After doing it, I will price it out for glass on my house. For what thats worth.
Matt
stilletto,
I did a number of glass railings back in the late 70's/early 80's. Used discarded tempered glass patio door units. (We would pay as little as $ 0.50 apiece for them from a window distributer) Etching and staining did develop over the years but the glass units are still in place.
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
at our cabin i used 1/4 glass,it is saftey glass not temperd.pcs are 9' long between the deck post,i'm guessing 32" tall with a top and bottom rail dadoed out for the glass to sit in.works out really well.
it was mentioned about keeping clean,it has surprised me how long between cleanings we can go.maybe 2 months.
cost was probably as cheap as anything you can do for a railing,9' pcs run about 110.00 a pc.
neighbors lawnmower picked up a rock and broke a panel,thats been the only neg.and if the glass would've been there it would of hit the sliding door. larry
if a man speaks in the forest,and there's not a woman to hear him,is he still wrong?
I've seen a tensioned cable setup that might do what you want. Two pieces of square tubing for the rails with small (1/4"?) stainless steel cales spaced vertically at the required distance (4"?).
Use 1/2" dia. steel rod for the ballusters, anchoring into your choice of top rail and bottom. They could simply anchor into the deck. Mild steel will rust and then blend into the landscape but may stain whatever is under them. Stainless steel won't rust but is a bit more money. Either way, the effect is very minimal.
Glass, without doubt. Let it rise above the posts about 6 inches, with no top rail. I wish I'd made these posts lower, but we were experimenting and this is what we got:
View Image
that's nice work no top rail is clean"I'm not responsible for my actions."
That is sweet. Do you have any close ups of the post/glass connections? Someone's got it in for me, they're planting stories in the press
Whoever it is I wish they'd cut it out but when they will I can only guess.
They say I shot a man named Gray and took his wife to Italy,
She inherited a million bucks and when she died it came to me.
I can't help it if I'm lucky.
Holly, I cannot find a close-up, though I thought I had one. Porch structure was heavy steel I-beams. Welded 2" x 36" channel to that. Used 4" plastic drain pipe as form, with a 3/4" x 3/4" spline inside as a blockout. Poured concrete, slip the pipe to remove the form, cut the spline out, and that formed a channel for sliding the glass into, with foam pieces as stops. As I said, wish I'd kept the columns below the glass height, but other than that, worked well.
Gotcha, thanks. Someone's got it in for me, they're planting stories in the press
Whoever it is I wish they'd cut it out but when they will I can only guess.
They say I shot a man named Gray and took his wife to Italy,
She inherited a million bucks and when she died it came to me.
I can't help it if I'm lucky.
http://www.deckorators.com
They have a 4" glass picket/bauluster available, locally they are around 13 bucks a piece but not horrible.
Available in clear and smoked glass.
Interesting looking system and if enough thought were given to the post lay out on the front end the installation looks like it would be very quick.
Maybe a dumb question but when you're sitting there, is there a problem with glare or reflection with those glass panels?
buic
Never had a glare problem from the railing. The site faced S-SW, and reflections would have been from the other side of the railing...the side with the light source. The choice of glass was the best decision my wife ever forced on me. I was game for cable or pipe, too. She pulled rank, and I had to fashion the solution and keep it affordable. IIR, about 26 pieces of glass varying from 3' to 5' in length, 1/2". supported only along the sides, don't remember the cost. Not bad. The only bitch was sliding them in, be/c I worked alone mostly and didn't like the feeling of almost falling off a 20' porch while propping about 80# of glass.No glare and no problem with dirt. Unequivocally my first choice for railing when there's a view.
Cloud, I have done several versions of glass rails here. Now however the inspectors want some sort of proof that it will resist the lateral loads as called for in the code. Not having a top rail makes me wonder about your's. I love the look and concept. Do you know if yours meets the code for that ?
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
The glass company provided me with some documentation that satisfied them. Our inspectors aren't all that strict for most things. They came, they looked, the touched. It was obvious to them that the railing was sturdier than the typical wood deck railing.The railing system I like the most though, is even more extreme than mine. Only reason I didn't do it is because I didn't know of it at the time: http://www.glassrailing.com/pages/Glassrailing.htm It's a system that supports the glass ONLY along the bottom. Now THAT'S good for a view! And I imagine they have engineering for that.
Cloud, That is pretty amazing. Thanks for sharing the link. Personally having broken tempered glass by striking it on the edges I wouldn't want to trust it for that application. Safety laminated glass fine but tempered would let me sleep at night.
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
Wow! I can't believe all of the great ideas everyone came up with. I'll have to do some research now on the cost and availability of materials where I live.
Thanks again.
Kent
I just finished doing a railing around a hot-tubedeck and I used a stairway ballistrade for the top rail from Home Depot with 3/8" wrout iron posts at 12 " spacing, this provided minimal distraction from the veiw.
If you have the depth, you might be able to build a two-level deck with some steps down to the lower level. That would let you see over the railing when sitting on the upper deck
I'm not sure who makes it but some searching online should help but there are glass or lexan panel system that is code approved for railings I have seen it at my lumberyard. But if you have kids or dogs it might be a maintenance issue with having to clean the glass all the time but I does look great. If not the next best thing would be the wires.
I think you are limited to cable rail or glass
Welcome to the
Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
where ...
Excellence is its own reward!