Lon Smith Company sends a salesman out to measure home and three buildings. Two of the four will take a total of 63 squares of Armor Shield II asphalt shingles, and two others take 22 squares of metal R-panel plus 145′ of guttering and 160′ of corner and rake trim. I’ve never been shown a shingle sample, a modified roof sample for the patio, nor a sample/or picture of the ridge vent used on the metal buildings. After several upgrades following several visits, the Final bid is $44,000(about $6k is my redecking cost, upgraded shingle, and sent for insurance company to review. When the insurance company see it’s that company, they work with me in the most picture perfect way a person could hope for…
After some delivery issues about faxing the bid to the insurance company, the salesman comes back 6 days later and says: “You’ve got to sign this contract today or the price for the Impact Resistant shingles (not GAF) are jumping from $201. to $240 a square, TOMORROW.” Doing the neighbor’s house too, he was asked up front if a discount can be had. He says he’s given a $500 sign bonus to the neighbor and that “MINE would be significantly larger because my contract is larger than the neighbor’s.”
The bulldozing I felt from the salesman made me say “No, I’m not signing today.” He left saying I needed to sleep on it….??? So, I begin to check out pricing from places like Bradco and find that not only are the shingle prices not going up on August. 1st, but are going up on August. 8th… Before putting on the squeeze of “Must Sign Contract Today”, the salesman had a review of the contract with his top boss. The salesman said his boss said to there would be no discount, no sign bonus, and there was no room for anything.”
With promises and prices NOT adding up, and back-tracking on a “Significant Discount”, I call his business office to ask for someone who can tell me if their shingle prices are actually going up…I’m pass through two ladies to a new salesman who listens and says he will get back to me that day.
About 5:00 the same day, THE original salesman who said I must sign calls me. He is mad; no profanity, but he is VERY mad. He tells me that I’m “Not the kind of customer HIS company wants. He is going to call the Dallas Office to tell them and those at his Ft. Worth office they are not to deal with me. He tells me I’m a person who wants a free roof. Finally, he tells me that he is calling my insurance company (Who has approved the company’s bid) and telling them that the contract is canceled.”
As I close the conversation, I ask for his supervisor’s phone number….
What would you do if you were in the same situation?
Bill
Replies
My son is in the roofing bus & I do know they get very short notice by the suppliers about prices going up, - get your orders in by deadline date... yada yada. But....Trust your instincts. If you feel rushed & bullied and things don't add up, then you correct to double check facts before signing anything - even if it means paying a bit more.
Funny that the jerk salesman is canceling a contract he never had.
I'd try getting the boss once, maybe twice, just to let him know your side and that his guy seems to be throwing a lot of double speak around.
After that, move on, find another roofer.
Saw the title and thought
"What would you do if the salesman told the truth?" would be a more unusual situation.
Joe H
Yah, I was thinking," What would you do WHEN a salesman tells a lie"
instead of IF
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My thoughts exactly:How do you know when a salesman is lying?
In science it often happens that scientists say, "You know that's a really good argument; my position is mistaken," and then they would actually change their minds and you never hear that old view from them again. They really do it. It doesn't happen as often as it should, because scientists are human and change is sometimes painful. But it happens every day. I cannot recall the last time something like that happened in politics or religion. --Carl Sagan
>>>How do you know when a salesman is lying?When his/her lips are moving.
I've worked as a sub for companies with salespeople like that. They're heavy closers with no concern for customer service. They often make the sub's job more difficult, lying to the client about what and when.
I'd get on the phone to the main office and let the company owner know how this guy has behaved, what he has said. Maybe you'll get the kind of treatment you deserve or maybe you won't. Sometimes it's the owner who's prodding the sales staff to close deals aggressively.
Edited 8/28/2008 6:13 am by Hudson Valley Carpenter
I'd talk to his supervisor.
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I'd talk to the supervisor and if I heard the right things, I'd sign the deal with the rookies salesperson LOL!
bill,
of course the salesman is yanking you around a bit--in the grand tradition of roofing and siding salesmen
however--he may not be yanking you around quite as much as you think.
I have a proposal here that I gave to a customer july 31.
I had---at that time recieved notice that we would have price increases from my usual supplier on august 1---of 12-13%---so that increase was already factored into my proposal--which needs to be accepted within 14 days
the next day--august 1st-- I am actually at the supplier when the counter staff informs me that there will be a 2nd price increase august 13--also 12-13%
that makes a material increase of about 25%-in less than 2 weeks
AND-that would be the 4th or 5th increase this year from that supplier.
At least that supplier lets me know
I have 3 basic suppliers
the second supplier is much less dependable about keeping me updated
and the 3rd supplier( who was at one time my primary supplier--has yet to let me know of a price increase---they just slam it on me at the counter.
Granted--your salesman is yanking you around a bit----but just because you called around checking prices ,doesn't mean you succeeded in checking with HIS supplier
for example- if you called my #2 supplier-you would have been told "no price increase"--where as I would in reality be experiencing a 25% increase from my actual supplier.
stephen
I was thinking the same thing...the price increases are coming at record pace as companies try to recoup the gas price increases and petro increases. The deal killer for me would be the nasty conversation, not the price issues.
ME too, I saw what Steven mentioned, but wasn't going to waste time on the quibble details. It is the force feeding sales technique that would make me run away.If I were specualting, I would suppose that this sales guy gets an added bonus for selling a certain dollar value in the month and the end of his month is up so he was trying to bump his bonus pay by crowding what he saw as an existing sale into this month instead of being patient enough to let it happen next month. getting nasty in a customer's face even before a sale is just plain stupid.
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Piffen
( and blue)
I am perfectly willing to believe the salesman is a tool---- but I suspect he probably isn't as big of a tool as he has been portrayed in this thread I can suspect a slightly different pattern--which still makes the salesman a tool---just a lesser-and more understandable tool!,LOL imagine you notify a prospective customer of a price bump--and yes you ARE trying to push the sale alongthe propsect starts calling suppliers to verify your price bump---and fails to discover the real one you have mentioned---so the prospect assumes you are trying to bone him---and calls your supervisor to complainI goota believe that the relationship between the salesman and the prospect---is gonna deteriorate rapidly!!!!! I have actually kind of been on the other side of thisalmost 20 years ago--EPDM was much less common than it is now-- i had a job to do which would require much less than a full roll.
most places would ONLY sell full rolls---but there was a place that sold cut pieces---for a higher per foot price. they also had 5 locations-in my town and 4 neighboring cities within a 2 hour drive
I wanted the rubber for a job tommorrow---but the location in my town was out of stock AND they told me it would be a week before they could get it inso I thought" Hey---why not call cleveland-- If one of those locations has it in stock I can drive up there and get it in 45 minutes-and still do the project tommorrow.
so- i started caling arround--a couple of locations admidted they had it in stock--but that they were not "allowed" to sell it to me---flat out told me"You MUST buy it from your local branch"so-- I gotta wait a week--instead of driving 45 minutes and buying it today???????
before I could call the 4th branch-my phone rings and it is my local source screaming at me that i have no business going to another branch-that I HAVE to buy from them and that if I want it I will have to wait at least a week.So- i went to another source--bought a full roll--used a 3rd of it--sat on the remainig 2/3rds of a roll for a couple of years before i finally used it up--- but i have NEVER spent a dime at the company that wanted to make me wait a week.
stephen
been there done that
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Hes a tool because he's precisely the kind of salepeople that everyone hates. I'd fire him. Not for trying to get the sale. He'd be fired for NOT TRYING TO GET THE SALE WHEN THE SALE WAS ALREADY AGREED ON AND IN THE PROCESS!
you have a good point.
in my case- i have often thought back to my situation with the partial roll of EPDM
I had another problem with them in regaurds to about 1-1/2 hours i wasted trying to buy a box of gun nails
in fairness I forget exactly which episode drove me away from that supplierBut----if I add up how much money I HAVEN't spent there since then, LOL
I am filled with Glee100,000's----could it be over a million since thenthe location would be VERY convienent for me( and was even MORE convienient then)
interesting how a VERY small thing can cost you BIG in sales. all he had to do was say " Steve-we are out of stock in that rubber at this location. One of our branches has it in stock----- we can have a truck come down with it tommorrow----or if you need it before then I can call them---they will have it cut,rolled up and waiting for you if you want to drive up and get it yourself----that way you will have it in less than an hour"
look at that--it took me longer to typoe that-than it would have taken for him to close that sale
but in stead over time he has lost sales totalling significant numbers.
stephen
But----if I add up how much money I HAVEN't spent there since then, LOLI am filled with Glee
I've recently had a similar problem with ABC Supply. As you know, I've bitched about their coddling of out of town stormers. And partially because of that, I had a slow fall. And then the builders that make at least 75% of my business started getting slow with their payments.
Around the 1st of the year a small amount on my account went 60 days past due and they suspended my account. At the time I owed them about $60K, but only $5K was past due. So to keep moving ahead, I started paying COD for my materials while paying the balance down. By June I owed them about $6K on my balance paid down from $60K in 6 months while still buying from them COD. We needed two bundles of shingles to complete a job and pick up a check and that money was going to pay the account off the following day so I could get it re-opened. They refused to sell us the two bundles for cash unless I paid the account off that day. Through all this, I never dodged a phone call and I made at least a token payment every week to assure them I was good for the money. Guess where I won't be shopping anymore.
I've been spending $250K a year or more on materials with the bulk of that going to them. View Image
all i can say to that Grant is WOW!
somebody at ABC is an idiot!, LOL
stephen
That is an amazing story! So, you are telling us that they would sell you products COD but not for cash over the counter? Excuse me for not understanding their logic!!!!I would have ordered a delivery, COD to the parking lot LOL!
So, you are telling us that they would sell you products COD but not for cash over the counter?
No. They decided they would not sell to me anymore until I paid my account in full that day. They had some sort of imaginary cut off date that they wanted my account settled by and apparently I didn't meet it. In 6 months I had paid off $54K of old debt plus spent at least that much in cash sales there. I'm having the best year I've ever had despite the slow paying builders and they're starting to get caught up. ABC decided they didn't want my business after I was their biggest customer (so I heard) for the 1st couple of years they were in town.
ABC has alienated a lot of other local businesses because of their storm chaser policies. And I keep hearing stories of the stormers who ran up big bills and dissappeared. Or locals that tried to compete pricewise with the stormers and worked themselves out of business. And all the stormers just dissappeared from town about a month ago. There's tumbleweeds blowing around the ABC parking lot right now. View Image
It sounded like the bean counter in the back thought he could squeeze you enough so he could make the electric bill the next day.
Yeah - something like that.View Image
Slight hijack here:
Two of my suppliers are announcing the increases and then raising the prices on shingles they already have on the yard. One of them is announcing increases, but the increase is only on inventory brought in after the increase. That's saved my butt more than once and I'm only honoring proposals for 10 days.
spelling edit.
http://www.grantlogan.net/logo.jpg
Edited 8/28/2008 8:36 am ET by seeyou
That's noble of them but I wouldn't blame them for raising prices across the board on all stock, exisiting and incoming.
The material in the yard, in theory, needs to be replaced with the newer higher priced stock.TFB (Bill)
That's noble of them but I wouldn't blame them for raising prices across the board on all stock, exisiting and incoming.
Oh I agree. http://www.grantlogan.net/logo.jpg
Grant,when the counter people mentioned the 2nd 12% price bump in less than 2 weeks--they also mentioned if I ordered before the bump--they would honor the pre-bump price--as long as the order was delivered by something like sept. 3( I forget what-but it was the first week in sept.)
stephen
I'm trying to understand all the problems a salesman has to field. However, his supervisor has never tried to up the shingle price even once. Maybe because the actual shingle calculations show that instead of 63 squares, it's more like 55-57 squares that's being paid for "tear-off".
Exactly a week later, the supervisor had the salesman drop off shingle sample board and a picture of the metal roofs' ridge vent material because he passes our turnoff going to his home... I was told he was to drop them off silently and then call his supervisor. Then his supervisor was to call me to tell that they were set by the house. Instead, the salesman calls himself, acts as if nothing has happened, and tells my wife can't drop them off that afternoon but can sometime after 10:00 or maybe the next afternoon... I take the phone and asked him "what I actually did to deserve that rant, rash comments, and threats to tell others and the insurance company." He replied, "I don't want to address that." He does not apologize, there is no tone in his voice of making a mistake. I simply tell him, "I'm dealing directly with your supervisor, I will not talk with you ever again." Then I leave a voice mail to his supervisor that is returned the following Monday with his explanation of what was supposed to happen.
If the company didn't have such a high rating with BBB and insurance companies of resolving issues and job quality, there is a positive fact that I'll get reward points for using a credit card to pay. Although I've never used it, with the credit card company I'll also have another way to resolve any problems with poor workmanship or leaks by using their disputing clause.
Otherwise, I'd been gone a long time ago...
Bill
Edited 8/28/2008 9:35 am ET by BilljustBill
Edited 8/28/2008 10:10 am ET by BilljustBill
I would suggest you read this thread:
http://forums.taunton.com/tp-breaktime/messages?msg=108501.1
Too bad you didn't get my salesman. Lon Smith roofing came out to bid replacing our metal roof after hail damage. They couldn't do the job, but the salesman went out of his way to get us a first-rate company, which did a great job.
The company's supervisor I'm working with has said that the two R-panel metal roofs (22.5 squares of Kynar Rpanel @ $575 sq.) are done by the commerical division. That divison has a large amount of actual new construction to do, so that part of the total contract isn't to be done until as late as November....
As far as another poster has noted about calling around to verify pricing, normally I wouldn't have done that. But, when another brand of Impact Resistant shingle was said to be available rather than the GAF/Elk and the "bait and switch" look alike was pulled by saying there was going to be a significate larger amount than the neighbor was getting, then at signing there wasn't going to be any adjustment, says he'll be here on a time and day, but doesn't show up, show up on time, or even call to let you know, where's the creditability of the salesman?
Thanks for all your insight.... by the way, what company did your metal roof? ;>)
Bill
Edited 8/28/2008 12:23 pm ET by BilljustBill
Hall Roofing out of Georgetown.
Thanks!
I'd forgotten that Lon Smith had another company divison in Austin, besides Ft. Worth and Dallas, making you a bit farther away than I was thinking.
Thanks again,
Bill
Is there still a Lydick Rooking Co in Texas?I used to work for them in Lubbock, they had outfits in five cities and was supposedly the largest roofing co in TX back then.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Thanks for the heads-up, Piffin. I'll give it a look.
Bill
Not only duz the guy lie, but then he tries a sleazy pressure close. Yes, I would try and speak to the supervisor, but I would never deal with that salesperson again.
As my late wife used to say, "Why would you give your money to an azwhole?
Good luck.
Death penalty sound too harsh???????