Hi Everyone:
I’m just starting out in the home reno business and I was wondering what is the best chopsaw to buy. I’m considering adaptability, cost and portability.
thanks in advance
JP
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What are you doing with it? Trim or frame??
Here's my opinions:
Trim = Hitachi 8.5" slider (my favorite saw ever)
Framing = Bosch 12"
Sorry for all the confusion.... I'm looking for a multipurpose saw that will be used for both framing and some minor trim work
jp
I was in just your position when I bought mine. If you are going to buy just one saw for all-around use and you have to lug it around, 8" is too small, 12" is too heavy and very expensive. I opted for Bosch 10" sliding compound miter.
1. Will cut pretty wide 2x stock.
2. Cuts up to 62 degree angle and bevels to beyond 45 (52?, I forget)
3. Controls for all settings; bevel, angle, depth-limiter, etc are in front, so you never have to reach around.
4. Adjustable D-handle has trigger thumb locks on both sides so you can safely cut left or right-handed; there's never a reason to reach across the blade to hold stock.
5. Detent lockout lets you set 1/4 degree or so off one of the detent values (45 1/4 deg, for instance) without it jumping into the detent.If you have the money, go for the 12" and a rolling stand (Bosch is coming out with a killer stand soon, which previewed in February trade shows. 8" wheels, 16 feet of material support, stores standing up.
http://toolmonger.com/2007/02/15/preview-boschs-gravity-rise-miter-saw-stand/I have the DeWalt folding stand with about 12' support now. I'll get the Bosch rolling stand as soon as it's released.Check out CPO Bosch for possible value in a refurb unit. Usually "refurb" just means returned in perfect condition during the 30-day window for some reason.
BruceT
TorontoReno,
You've reopened a can of worms, frankly darn few people ever use differant saws in side by side tests to determine the factors which make up the best saw.
I can sit here and say everyway possible that I made the best choice with my Dewalt while someone else will lambast me. You're going to be hard pressed to find people who say I bought so-and so brand but wish I'd bought something else. Human nature being what it is we don't want to admit that someone else is right and we could be wrong..
I visit contractors day in and day out and the one that seems to have the best acceptance from contractors is the Hitachi.. Locally the Bosch has good acceptance but I suspect it's because of their good service departments rather than any great durability.
I will say that a sliding compound mitre saw really seems to come in handy over a pure "chop saw"
I have the Dewalt 12" - it cannot cut 11-1/4 cabinet shelves without tilting the wood to finish the cut, otherwise, no issues after 7 years.
My next saw will be the 8-1/4 Hitachi slider. I've used a friends - wider cuts, cheaper blades.
set the blade deeper....Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
Hard to beat my Hitachi 8 1/2 slider on a Delta Kickstand IMO. Get a stand to go with the saw. I set mine up with a permanent extension chord attached to a 4 plug outlet and a cheap desk light (swing arm type).
This is a can-o-worms!
I'll probably hear about it but, I like my 12" DeWalt double compound miter saw - $400. The current model - 917????
Will cut 4x8 on the flat @ 90. There are times that a slider would be really nice, but they are more $$ and are generally huge to transport. 12" DeWalt weighs less than my old 10" Makita - circa 1983 with cast iron table/fence.
I think the real key to vitually any chopsaw is to use good quality, sharp, blades which are matched to the job at hand. Therefore, you will not find me cutting sandwiched headers with a 100 tooth Freud blade or 1/2" shoe moulding with a 40 tooth framer.
Good luck.
Jim
Never underestimate the value of a sharp pencil or good light.
Youse guys are talking like carpenters.
He said, "chopsaw."
Either he's confused (or using slang) and you're right, or he's talking of cutoff saws used in metalbending, plumbering, etc.
Which is it, OP?
Methinks option #1 - slang. Option #2 - real chopsaw - doubtful for home reno woik. Darned carps - all the same.
Jim
Never underestimate the value of a sharp pencil or good light.
DeWalt 705 ... it'll frame and finish 95% of what you'll run into.
or what ever it's replacement model is.
reconditioned.
hit Amazon ... think recond'd ... both the DeWalt 12" chop AND the DeWalt tablesaw can be had for right around $500 ... for both.
Jeff
Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
I just ordered this 10" Hitachi slider for $305 shipped.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00007J8CG/102-2386300-6583318
Handyman, painter, wood floor refinisher, property maintenance in Tulsa, OK
Your link is showing up for me as $444.00. Must be one of Amazon's tricks. Lucky you for buying at the right time! I have that saw and it's a great one.
"This is a process, not an event."--Sphere
And I'm a legitimate certifiable Tool Whore.--Dieselpig
Ha I like your new sig! I saw the post where it first came up lol. Made me want to make it a sig for me too lolYes, that Amazon deal was a one day 'gold box' special. When I ordered it there were 327 in stock at that price. Two hours later I checked the quantity (by putting 999 in the # of items wanted box and pressing update) ther were 127 left! From what I hear it is a great saw and I am looking forward to getting it. I will look and see if my local HD has the Ridgid stand for $99, a deal that is supposed to expire 3/28.Handyman, painter, wood floor refinisher, property maintenance in Tulsa, OK
Link price is $ 422. how did u get it for $ 305.00 ????????
Amazon prices fluctuate, according to the sellers. If Amazon.com runs out, it shifts to the next store that has it in stock. Usually the price is higher at the other stores in the Amazon Marketplace.When I got it for $305 shipped, it was Saturday and a one day "gold box" special, where Amazon advertises it in a "gold box" on their homepage. In this case, timing was everything. I was fortunate enough to become aware of the deal and how good of a price it was. If I see it again at this price I will reply to you on here and let you know.Handyman, painter, wood floor refinisher, property maintenance in Tulsa, OK
TY
Trim and minor framing, Hitachi 10".
Framing and minor trim, Dewalt 12".
Both sliders of course.
Bosch is nice too, but too many parts to break.
"This is a process, not an event."--Sphere
I'm a Dewalt guy even though I also own a little 10" Hitachi and an old Delta Sawbuck. The DW 705 in my opinion is the best all around trim saw ever made. I got mine the first year they came out and still have it. Like Jeff said it will do 95% of your work and it's a real work horse. I also own the #718 12" slider which is a great saw, really good for crown, but I prefer to work with the 705. Combined with a Forrest chopmaster blade your finish work will go up several notches.
Bosch is good , and so is the Makita 10" slider, the Hitachi 81/4" is great, but you can't do any kind of depth work with it, and I would stay away from their 12" slider...a lot of glitches.
Do you have a factory or repair center around you at all? If you do, then it might be good to go with whatever make it may be if you're not partial. Easy access for parts & repair.
There are several threads on this very often asked question. You might want to go into advanced search.
I'll step in and further muddy the waters for you. Makita LS1013. I use it with my framing crew all the time. Then I throw a good 80 tooth blade in and get beautiful accurate finish quality cuts. Very nice saw. Competitively priced. But I can't help and tell you that the stand you use/build/buy is almost as important as the saw itself. Same goes for blade choices.
That's the one I cut my model parts with.
dieselpig,
let me second you with regard the stand.. I made the mistake of thinking I didn't need one and wow did I pay for that untill I broke down and bought one..
I suggest a 10" slider as the best all-a-round saw.
My preference is Hitachi.
I love my makita lsf 1013. I've also used a hitachi 10" slider - it's a good saw too. The Makita seems a bit more modern to me though- it's quieter, has a bigger table, etc. It's a well built saw. Did I say how quiet it is? I love that.
It comes with an excellent blade, too.
Only gripes- the miter gauge is in a funny spot- often covered by the wood if you don't preset it. Never been much of a problem, but it's still wierd placement. And it doesn't cut really steep angles- miters to 47 and 52, I think, and bevels only to 45.
zak
"When we build, let us think that we build forever. Let it not be for present delight nor for present use alone." --John Ruskin
"so it goes"
There have been some good saws mentioned here, but you asked, "What is the best"?
Trim or frame, the 12"DeWalt 718 slider is bar-none the best saw on the market IMO. It is the easiest saw to adjust and exceeds the cutting capacity of any saw I've seen.
Maybe you don't need the best right now. If not, take a look at the 10" Bosch slider. You get alot of bang for the buck with the Bosch.
May neighbors respect You, and troubles neglect You.
Gord
I have the dewalt 718, and like it a lot, but don't know if Its the best, but its the one I bought. It is bulky and heavy and takes up a lot of shelf space in the van.
Sometimes lighter is better-depends on what you are doing. I have the dewalt stand, maybe not the best. Sets up quickly and very light.
Greg in Connecticut
Right now I have a Delta. The one I am buying next will be a DeWalt 12" double compound mitre. No slide. The Sliding compound is nice but it is very bulky. It would take up too much space in my truck. I will keep the Delta for jobs were I think things could go missing. Nobody wants to steal a Delta.
It's also good to keep a crappy tablesaw handy as well for the same reason.
Otherwise, buy nothing but quality tools. I learned that one the hard way. Don't buy cheap tools because they're cheap. You'll end up spending more in the long run. I replaced the bulk of my tools 2 1/2 times before I learned that lesson.
Dave
--"Nobody wants to steal a Delta."Dave,The New Delta 12" dual-bevel CMS was rated higher than Dewalt in the last FHB review (Arnold & Guertin) of 12" CMS. They rated them in this order:1. Bosch
2. Delta
3. DewaltI wanted to buy the Bosch, but I need to cut 5-1/4" base standing up and the Bosch only has 4-1/2" vertical capacity. The Delta can cut 6-3/4" base, upright.I bought the Delta and it has a host of other features too. The best crown stops, nicest sliding fence, easy to read bevel scale and up front bevel lock, etc.Here is a pic of my Delta and the stand I made for it, a pic of it cutting 5-1/4" base with room to spare, and a pic of some of the base I cut with the Delta last month (I have another tall base job now and another next month).Like you said...only buy quality tools...sometimes that might even include some Delta tools (I don't normally buy Delta). Most of my stuff is Bosch, Hitachi, Milwaukee, Makita.Cheers,Basswood
Do you have the twin lasers on this model?
I understand that the Delta twin laser is the most precise on the market, but I have the 12" dual-bevel sans laser. I have not tried the Delta laser system, but other lasers on the market seem great for framing, but not precise enough for the kind of trim work I do.Here is a link to the various Delta CMS on the market. Delta is finally getting serious, the new products seem solid and were guided by working with real carpenters. They looked into the ways carpenters were altering their saws to get extra cutting capacity. Nice that someone is paying attention to the tradespeople.I should mention that the price for extra cutting capacity seems to be at the expense of dust collection. My Delta saw does spew dust in all directions (the dust bag is a decoration--I think the notched shroud, for tall base cutting, lets the dust fly).http://www.insidewoodworking.com/delta/delta_miter_saw.html
Everybody on my crew has a Bosch 10" scms. They're great saws other than the fact that the blade guard needs to be modified. You should be able to pick one up at Rona for just over $300 cdn.
Thanks a bunch for you input on the chopsaw.... Nice to hear from another Torontonian.
JP
I also have a DW 705 from when they were new, and it is a fantastic tool for all around site use. I mostly use it for trim, but it'll chop a 4x8 at 90.The hinge-only saws are lighter and more robust than the sliders. If I had to replace my 705, I'd get a DW 706 in a heartbeat.Bill
how and why do you modify blade guard? which model?
My son helps me at times and the thing he liked about the laser was the way it shows where the blade will be cutting.
I find it a puzzle with all the single sided lasers fitted to todays saws. When Dewalt "upgraded" their new saws the laser attachment is a single beam.
Thanks for the link but it appears the Delta saws are on hold at the moment.
My understanding is that Delta is replacing Model 36-412 (the one I have) with a new and improved Model 36-422.Some vendors still have the 36-412. I found mine on clearance at Menards just a couple of months ago.Here is a link to a vendor that seems to still have them in stock:http://www.toolsforless.com/product/2329.html
I have the 36-412 and would buy the saw again.
The awful thing is that beauty is mysterious as well as terrible. God and the devil are fighting there, and the battlefield is the heart of man.- Fyodor Dostoyevski
I checked Deltamachinery.com FAQs on Miter Saws and Amazon reviews to see if any common complaints have surfaced on the new Deltas.The lack of dust management had a hilarious responce on the Delta FAQ page:--"Remove the bag and check for obstructions in the upper guard dust chute. Remove excess casting flash if present. Reinstall the dustbag and test. " No real remedy there. I wish they would just be honest, "The dust bag is purely decorative, this eliminates the need to ever empty the dust bag...a handy feature."Some have had difficulty turning the saw base, Delta just suggested wax or dry lube.While that will help (I use teflon dry lube--TDL, I found the main large nut (in the center of the base--seen if you flip the saw upside down) was too tight. I loosened it a skosh and the saw turns smoother now.
this might sound stupid but I have found that attaching a vacuum hose to the mitre saw works pretty good. Stick the other end into a large garbage can behind the saw and your good to go. Makes clean up a snap. I find the saw dust isn't as prone to sit in/on the saw as much.
Dave
I will give that a try. Thanks.
I never had great expectations for filling the dust bag, in fact, I don't think I ever used it.IIRC, Gary Katz has an article on his site regarding dust collection for miter saws.
The awful thing is that beauty is mysterious as well as terrible. God and the devil are fighting there, and the battlefield is the heart of man.- Fyodor Dostoyevski
now ya did it. Do you know how long it took me to make up my mind on what saw to buy? Now, because of you, I have to reconsider. Thanks buddy! LOL
Dave
Dave,There is no single "best miter saw", it is difficult to choose one and that is a good sign...it is a crowded field.The Delta has the best capacity and some other nice features, but to be honest (besides the dust issue) we don't know how durable it is yet and it is 6 pounds heavier than the 44 lb. Dewalt 716 (Bosch 4212 is the true heavyweight at 67 pounds).I only drag the Delta to the jobs where I really need it. If I needed a 12" CMS daily I would probably get the lighter Dewalt 716.A good wheeled stand, does make weight less of an issue...but lighter is nice.The thing that pushed me over the edge on the Delta purchase was the clearance price at Menards (I paid $250 for mine).BTW my first CMS was a Delta...a lame tool by todays standards (single bevel, crappy blade guard, etc....ah, the good old days.
Glad is survived that one. worked with 2 guys who had them sans guard! Scary.
Just bought Makita ls1013 with laser. Home hardware $599. Very nice. Replacing 10 year old Makita ls1011.
1013 is larger and heavier, but tilts both ways. Slider is much stiffer, old saw had too much flex in the slider. The laser is great too, adjusts from one side of blade to the other in one second or so. Also turns on/off independent of blade rotation.
I'm not working much these days, but you'll find as many DeWalt 12" double-compound "chop" saws around our area as anything else the sliders are too heavy and too delicate for everyday use. The DeWalt will do most of the trim you'll find in the GTA, most of the cornice too.
Phill Giles
The Unionville Woodwright
http://www.amazon.com/Milwaukee-6497-6-10-Inch-Sliding-Compound/dp/B00005AQNK/ref=sr_1_16/102-2429894-4749712?ie=UTF8&s=hi&qid=1174228218&sr=1-16
A very good acurate rugged saw, which will handle framing and fine finish.It only tilts to one way but that can be easily worked around. The best feature is you just squeeze the trigger , no extra button to push.
If you are a "MEMBER" you can archive two reviews, one several issues back in Fine Woodworking several issues back, and the other in Fine Homebuilding several years back.
After my first one was ripped off at a job site, I thought about other brands. Having in the past used a gament of other brands, I came back to the devil I knew. It can travel in the back of my truck along with every thin else and stay very depenable.
I'm considering adaptability, cost and portability.
The best?
Or one that meets your criteria for the best?
Makita LS1211.
Ridgid MSUV for portability.
Ferget cost!
J. D. Reynolds
Home Improvements
Dewalt 12" slider with the dewalt stand. No more flipping/lifting boards and finishing partial cuts..
It is big.. but not that big, and you can cut ANYTHING.
See if you can find a "De-walt tool event" at a local lumberyard. Tool reps come, set up and sell their stuff for great deals. I got my saw for 450$ including the stand.