Hi
Sorry you guy’s, just want to tell, that I can not read the tread I started “new exiting building method for sheet materials”, where I promote a new buildint method transforming plain sheet material into fancy buildings, with only sheet materials and simple cutting .
Now I do not know, if the owner of this group don’t want commersials, I guess anyone agrea to this, mine are no commersial still the owner wasn’t challanced by a new universal building method. ——- My trouble with the group, is that I recive confimations, that somoen cared ansvering in the tread, scarecly you touch the button and you don’t know if you will get baffeled or meet a person who seen the visions, the progress and the solution why you can buy a house at a third, being four times as strong, resist earthquake better, when a crowd of academics wondered ,now they seen the light.
Now in this situasion as an idealist forcing a new and cheaper building method on industrie, academics, average whoever want a strong cheap house, the easyest way 2003 with the sheet material and cutting equipment, Now what do you want a hull for, the building method , that you can produce double the amount much better than how standard methods work.
Still I respect if the owner of a list. Several members told me I could baffle the means of construction , still what if I am true , live in a subbern of the worlds, just declare this method is important, in a Lego world. I grew up in the land of Lego, and know it’s turn ,that’s why I say my Lego are better, a few members opened their minds for the options, and nice advises pointed to a way to promote further maby into the big numbers of readers, of a magazin I newer read.
I only know the magazin from the web, Im’e a web person ; a danish designer ,trying to promote a thing that will bring you a nice modern seaworthy boat the cost of a Volkswagon. If somoen wrote me a mail telling me what my harm is, by interupting passtime, discussing modern Architecture, so I do not leave a link even ,then se if this is an automatic thing, like the Lyle thing on usenet, whenever a commersial are put in, I never tried to advert I recive notification about people with an idear about 3D-Honeycomb ,but when I go to the group link, I se no tread.
P.C.
Replies
Andy Engle <[email protected]>
PC
Please contact the editor via above link with your question. I suspect that it was borderline to violating terms of the forum.
It is also possible that it was sabotaged by the poster formerly known aslarryaka**** who visited the thread. He has been banned for a number of things, amoung them breaking the rules by posting re his inventions which he was marketing.
I'm curious about the use of the word baffled in your posts. If you could define please, your useage seems somewhat unconventional.
If you want to reply to my questions re where one might find actual contruction in place using your methods, you are welcome to e-mail me directly via the link you get to profile if you click my name above.
regards,
Piffin
.
Excellence is its own reward!
"The first rule is to keep an untroubled spirit.
The second is to look things in the face and know them for what they are."
--Marcus Aurelius
Edited 12/23/2002 5:14:50 PM ET by piffin
Hi
Thank's for your nice reply, I just wondered the tread went.
From my own experience, inventors vaste a lot of time after the actural invension with what shuld be unnessary procaurtions. As a creative mind, you vaste your time with formalities as what you shuld do, is not to vaste your time but prove your abilities with new invensions. Still that's my whip, but 2002 inventions most likely, better fit the technology, then a designer alleady earn much less than you shuld expect selling small numbers, so copyrights soon are enough. What good ar a brand new building method if it cost a farm to use it ; is an expensive method what the world need.
If opponants start questioning the wish for a method that build everything four times as stromg, at a third the cost, so you can get a house build in halve the time, I start discussing the how progress, jobs and visions are what is needed for a WTC project, that a build around are the only option as the memorials will be the issue. The Vision in a invention are most often very focused to solve one technical problem, but your personalities often reflect in the way you react to resistance, and in particular you need to be carefull as inventer, as this thing can fill in your whole life, being just a fight . It is not ment to be, as 2002 creative individuals have to move more freely, it's no good buisness anyway so you need to be realistic, and if I can not make interest for a new exiting building method, I didn't do my homework and that is not your foult.
You can find 3D-Honeycomb with any search mashine.
Baffelde is the feeling I have, progressing 3D-H for planes, ships, houses and Playhouses ;
http://www.designcommunity.com/scrapbook/1712.html
P.C.
PC >>> "If opponants start questioning the wish for a method that build everything four times as stromg, at a third the cost, so you can get a house build in halve the time, I start discussing the how progress, jobs and visions are what is needed for a WTC project, that a build around are the only option as the memorials will be the issue"
Hmm, 4x/3/2, etc. If you make any more promises the house will cost nothing. Divide that by half and I can afford one.
There is nothing you can say in my real time that will change the way I build, but you may have something. If your other thread got deleted it was because you made it all about a link to you, for your benefit. You know you came here to improve your bottom line, but if you want to come here and share a new idea we are all ears.
Talk it up, say how you came upon it, say how it made sense to you, debate it's strengths, interact with us... but do not play this site like a fish, and lay your get rich quick thing here.
Why do I think you are dumping your links on every website you can find? If this was my site you would have been banned right off.
At least when I have a bad post you can read it some what intelligently,
Is it just me or does reading his post make your head want to split?
WTF? over!
hunh?
I was amazed by the thread. As someone (you?) stated it makes my head throb to read it. What the ---- was the comment in general, not to you specifically.
OK, count me as baffled, buffled, and bamboozelled, now..
Excellence is its own reward!
"The first rule is to keep an untroubled spirit.
The second is to look things in the face and know them for what they are."
--Marcus Aurelius
Come on, was that a bad post?
You should have seen the ones I deleted.
'Tweren't me!.
Excellence is its own reward!
"The first rule is to keep an untroubled spirit.
The second is to look things in the face and know them for what they are."
--Marcus Aurelius
Baffle as in "to confuse, to change a way of thinking, to set the building industry on it's head"?
Jen
Happy Holidays!! 8****8****8****8****8****8****8****8****8****8
Hi
>To put the building industry "on it's head"
Right, you get hardened ,more focused and hopefully more clear, by challenging the fundamental issues. I got baffled around a lot defending these visions, as when something is in any way so new and at first glimpse complicated, you must be prepared about all the arguments, and if you take the advise from the craftsmen working with construction serious , you have the professional approach you need, then you can maybe even call yourself a Designer. Now with my previous mail, I suddenly realized, that the thing I pointed to, were needing it's own name ,as naming it as a float bridge, would not be as descriptive as you need the name to be ; ------ I knew most people think about a float bridge, as a number of air tanks with a road deck, but with my suggestion and detailed projecting to prove this being possible, my main issue was the dear of leveling the road deck, by leaving in ballast water at high tide and pumping it out at low tide ,to make the road deck flush ,placed in a harbor with limited tide and current, but sometimes Icey conditions.
But beside my wish to show the world a completely new form language, allowing you to build anything four times as strong, I also have a vision ,that the whole concept will be the perfect mean ,to teach mathematics in a way ,so a 12 year old understand math. much better than how the kids are hunted with dry dusty mathematics, that when seen the 3D-H way, allow for hands-on clues, by producing easy yet useful goods with a computer, bringing them into the real world, and grow an inch. by seeing something you created with "your own hands", by the means of any computer with a CAD program.
True, the math. involved with 3D-Honeycomb, are easy to understand when you "se" it happen on a screen. You suddenly se how the traditional 3plane construction environment that computer aided design have been bound to, is expanded with this simple method , -------- say you se and understand the results, then the basics are much easier understood and this mean that most 12 year old, will be able to use and visually understand mathematics at a much higher level.
Why is it, that to be a designer, you also need to be able to communicate ,guess this is the only thing I miss about being no academic, that if I were one I would have a much better chance to teach. --------- Still if I continue this direction with my mails, I soon will hit quite off-topic issues, so I better pull my self together and stick to the issue of a promising new construction techie, even easier than the traditional ones , -----stronger to and much cheaper when the industries "se" this.
Have a nice Christmas, don't forget what it's about and enjoy .
Per Corell
Copenhagen Denmark
http://www.designcommunity.com/scrapbook/images/2055.jpg
Per,
I don't know if you missed my question or if I missed your answer. You keep repeating that this method provides a structure four times as strong with a third the cost and I keep asking where it has been done to prove that fact. The evidence of the cooking is in the eating.
I grasp the concept intellectually but I work with real materials in a real world, not a cartoon one. If there is no evidence from real construction, please be honest enough to say so. I can accept that..
Excellence is its own reward!
"The first rule is to keep an untroubled spirit.
The second is to look things in the face and know them for what they are."
--Marcus Aurelius
Exactly right! Many of Escher's renderings appear quite sturdy, but......
I complement you, Piffin, on your patience with this issue. The thread has at any one time, been somewhat fascinating to utterly confusing.
This guy "P.C." is either a savant trying to bring us all into a new era of viable construction alternatives, or a dreamer who is mired in paper optimism.
I see a few reference to boats and boatbuilding, a process I'm pretty familiar with that shares some similarities to the shapes P.C. has posted, but just what IS this unique structure we're hearing about?
Can you interpret? Just as I start to get an inkling, I get lost again....like trying to decode an intermittent radio signal from another galaxy.
Jules Quaver for President 2004
Well, here's my interpretation on the concept -
I saw a show on one of those educational channels about honeycombs as structures. They use far less materials but gain overall strength based on the geometry and it's effiecient use of space. It went on to show examples, one of which was a new construction material that I think is in production but that I have not seen in distribution yet. It was shelf board made of extruded composite material that looked, in cross section, much like a nine ply corrugated cardboard. It was faced with a melamine type material for a wear layer and for appearance. I imagined this would be the sheet material Per refered to but he says that his method would work with any sheet material. This homeycombed material uses the principle in microcosm.
Now imagine this same principle applied in macrocosm, using the pattern to create structures suitable for living men and women instead of bees, or as an outer shell to define space of an inner sanctum or great hall.
It reminds me of art work on some covers of science fiction novels. We all know that some Sci-fi writers are the prophets of the future, pointing the way for our imaginations to follow.
The basic idea is not far from frame design for aircraft and some boat hull design.
Some of the difficulty communicating here lies in the cultural differences between the building community of America and the art/design community of Denmark or Holland or wherever. But it appears that some may also be from the difficulty Per's creative mind has in grasping real engineering and it's applications. I know that I have had intuitive creative moments with a burst of genius and light - enough to catch a vision of something great and original - only to have the vision fade before I can put it to words or paper. I think that Per has the vision but not the words or application to communicate it.
Add to that a personality formed in part by rejection by his peers and we see a self protective bravado not unlike LM, aka****aka****
Tesla was somewhat of the same frame of mind if I understand his situation.
The Savant concept might be applicable. I'm looking for understanding. Anything that opens my mind to new concepts or applications is worth exploring. For certain, if I see a structure fitting this concept some day when I am sitting in my rocking chair on the porch of the nursing home, I will baffle the nurses when I chuckle and say, "I knew of the man who invented that building over there, Pers Corell".
Excellence is its own reward!
"The first rule is to keep an untroubled spirit.
The second is to look things in the face and know them for what they are."
--Marcus Aurelius
The greater Questions I see in my mind are the connections between slices of the honeycomb. Welded, Half lapped joinery, formed and poured concrete with rebar, ???????
When he says it applies to any sheet material but each material has different optimal methods of connection, the argument breaks down, as does the claim that the cost is reduced.
As I'm sure you know, CNC cutters can be driven by CAD Cam programs to cut out any shape in the world from sheets goods, but the waste in materials produced in rectilinear sheets to form curved shapes is tremendous. The sacrifice is worthwhile for shapes where the curve is needed, such as ships and planes, but to employ it for buildings? Well, maybe Cloud hidden would elaborate on that.
It's hard for me to imagine many build applications for this. One that comes to mind is a cantilevered set of switchback stairs to an upper porch in an area where a foundation was not possible for direct bearing. I created a truss design wherein the walls of the structure were a web truss/shear wall to handle the stretch. The biggest challenge was that the weight of the material added to the design requirements, which in turn added to the weight. A hollow eggshell doesn't sag any less than a full one and supports itself quite well on any point on it's surface is the nearest allegory I can think of.
Maybe Haole27 can have a happy chug into oblivion now. Bottom's up!.
Excellence is its own reward!
"The first rule is to keep an untroubled spirit.
The second is to look things in the face and know them for what they are."
--Marcus Aurelius
Someone set us up the bomb.Don't bogart the Ghost
Quittin' Time
I tried posting to PC but was unable, I'm sure the problem lies on my end, to decipher a cogent response. I tend to be too much the literalist and lack imagination needed to read between the lines so I will limit myself to a few observations while hoping that I am not insulting PC by talking past him.
From the drawing presented it looked to me to be a cross between Fullers domes, his student's - at first attributed to Fuller himself - tensegrity stacks, the lattice of a yert - Seen again in the WW2 Lancaster bomber- and honeycomb panel designs from NASA and used primarily in the space or aerospace programs. Interesting concept but even this is marred by the lack of documentation and research. Even the computer designs, at least those I saw, lacked any particulars as to what materials were used or even the dimensions of many of the structures.
Generally they build them and I wire them. If they, whoever they are, are smart they get the electricians involved at an early stage but besides a few minor changes I seldom get any great input. I'm used to dealing with real world structures and sometimes well documented designs and blueprints. Conceptual drawings are interesting and thought provoking but my world revolves around things I can walk into, knock holes in and run cables or conduits through.
I agree with your assessment and tried in my maladroit way to reinforce the idea that what is needed is less pie-in-the-sky and more buildings on the ground. Dreams are grand but they, in and of themselves, won't keep the rain off my head, the wind from my back or keep me warm on a cold night.
Hi
I am very glad about the positive response, and please know that I appreciate all the nice replies.
I started with Dos 2.1 and AutoCAD 2.6 , -------- now I don't count the years but all the time I had to write an application if I wanted to unroll a surface, learning the computer wan's difficult as I had the goal to use this new tool , and my disappointment was not greater, than I found the way's ,even I had to build them myself, then I truly got what I expected at the end but most often , the CAD program only offered the basic 3 plans ------- I mean ,these I already have in my head ; guess I am the only boatbuilder in the world, that have the tools to unroll the planks for a traditional lapstrake or clinker build boat, -------- but what's good having these tools in a world where lapstrake boats are rare. and everything is made from plastic. At one time I spend halve a year with a new idea that will make you build a traditional small wooden boat in 25 hours by offering ready made ends ,that you just bolt or rivet already shaped planks onto, -------- but when everything proven it's use, I had to realize that this was 50 years out of time, the idear work perfect but who want a wooden dinghies .
Now Please se that I don't go deeper into the 4 years as unregistered student, I had at the architect academy, I knew something they couldn't manage ,but as I pointed out ,my mind is so, that I can only deal with my special interests ; still this made me a good diver, boatbuilder, carpenter whatever ,-------- I know more than most ,about a variety of small and handy skills , and alway's became the best. On the other hand I have a very strange relationship to the goods I ever produced ,as even I used months ,day and night , with a new idea or a new design ,then the instant it is done my interest fade away, ------------ still as it allway's been so, I know that tomorrow or next hour , the next vision are there and I will have a couple of month's rest focusing on a new project or a new idea. ---- So much about me, if I continued you would start wondering if this guy are real ; I am ,but what's more real is the options with this method.
Now if anyone want to hear how bad things are with today's architect programs, just ask me as I know how the code are written . I can ask the most unpleasant questions about these things, and with the 3D-H method , you must know, that I been challenging most of the academics in this country , so when people talk about me I am _the most unknown artist. One who challenge the entire idea of building houses as if you are doing Lego ,but I am not a person who just critic and point to my own personal interests, as when I want to take my art serious the deal is not about me but about what good this method can bring you.
This is why it is so difficult to keep on track and stay on topic ; to explain the method, I have to tell the limitations with what most people think are top technology within architecture, ----- maybe my trouble with this is the best way to show the method ,but even then this is not the best way to social accept, ------- hope you all understand this aspect and the trouble you will find, introducing what they all been shouting for among academics ; then autodidactic and self thought individuals allway's been in conflict with the settled crowd.
Now do you se it already, how for the inventor everything start dealing with trouble and when you don't even know the leads, then being a visionary artist with hands-on experience, is not a dream but hush reality ,in the land where byrocracy was invented ; if you Americans think you are up against something, then try progressing "a new kind of Lego" in the lands of Lego. If you can't deal with anything but your own visions and don't care about social life among artists , this country are ideal but when you publish your works , problems occurs if you are to good about it.
So , yes I describe myself as artist, as this is the nearest to any description, but I properly wouldn't be accepted as one even I spend most of my life in a dream about reality and sense means to actuary use the new tools in a constructive way. Then as the technology didn't offer what I wanted, I simply had to produce a way to do so ; ----- a way to produce beautiful buildings and that new form language ,no one seemed to understand was needed. Please se, that all the time during these 12-15 years I allway's was ten steps ahead what other designers troubled, and it only been a few years, since I realized that being a Designer ,you must be able to solve the actual problem so if this mean that you need to scrap the kind of thinking you se in modern architect applications ,you mean serious business and if you want to become a frustrated inventor you have all the good reasons ; still this is not what I want with my life, and this is not what the 3D-H method need.
Now as you already guessed art are something you pay for thru your entire life, and what come easy ,often leave you with a cheap impression. Then me saying so, don't leave me in any good situation in the lands of Lego, but what do I care ; I never found any support even being among the top with knowledge and skills with computers. When I 3 times applied and was allowed to use the States workshops for Arts and Crafts, I already made my homework years before proving _those_ computer programs ,with a prototype of a very traditional wooden boat or two. As how do you think this can be any different , I did try to stick to the academic crowd but found no one share the same fire, as for most it was not the beauty in brickwork but "being something". Most other students was in it for personal reasons not for the beauty. At that time I was in it for the beauty of Lisp, and soon was known as quite a spooky guy who allway's could make the computer work. Still as I said, the goods and the support you expect , working on the edge both personally and by your skills, find no support among academics and even today I can not put together a decent CV ; as what use is four years as unregistered student , tree projects as autodidactic computer wizard ,with design tools no one can find among the standard functions in a CAD program. And now this Vision about pressing a button , and the intire assembly structure are there.
Guess you se why I must tell before anyone ask ,why I have not used the traditional architect contests to tell about a new building technique, but in these I don't have a chance, and I better not tell how and why, as then this discussion for real get off track. Still a lot of nice people respond to me and offer their aid and for this I am most thankful, ------ but if you ever almost reached the top of the hill on your own forces, you also know that it is not before you almost are there, your power fail you, first just before you reach your goal, you realize that progressing new ground as we do in this discussion, are so exhausting that you suffer to do so , nothing with true value come easy. Architects properly will protect the "Lego thinking" in the programs they are able to manage, as they learned about computers in a different way than I did. And as I already been in the fight about what is best, a pen or a mouse, I know where this end. ------- In Lego land.
3D-H acturly work perfect with Lego mind, -------- each building block is easy numbered and with the "problems" that occur when a frame are longer than the workplane for your laser cutter or N.C. puncher, then the universal connection, actually add the need, that allow you to effectivity describe the task, so you can find the best way to place the pieces on the workplane . You know exactly how many feet need to be cut and you can add the documentation for each assembly part, just as the paper houses architects are so keen about. But 3D-H are much closer to the true manufacturing process, that any standard dome the architect place as a block in the drawing ; -------- where he need an army of skilled traditional craftsmen to "translate" the Dome he just place as nay other block, I can send the thing directly to the machine, and my craftsmen will not stand with a technology that need to be translated in any way, and the result will prove the fact, that we did not yet enter this new world of progress and beautiful cheap houses at a third the cost.
What is so difficult to explain, is _why_ the method work so smooth as when I start to tell, I soon offend someone or a whole trade. The someone are most often the one who decide what is art and what come from outside the academic circles, and often people can't understand what it mean to be an artist or at least a person with true Visions and the means to make them come true. The most realistic of you in this discussion, focus on the true issues and allow the visions to be spoken , and this is why I trust , that all these exhausted are taken as what they are ; an exchouse that I missed the point. That I did not produce the graphics that by plain vision tell it's own prove, show you all that architecture programs fallen into a dead end road compared the possibilities with as simple an idea as 3D-H , beside me being an unpleasant opponent in the discussion about this, if you are an architect.
Guess now I never be an academic, -------- but please se, that it is not the single academic that trouble me, but the fact that you can not be an artist without a CV The fact that Lego thinking are so integrated that your role as artist, is no different today as in 1905.
Now being a Designer, I can state that if the ones holding the commission about WTC rebuild or build-around find the true visions about the memorial sites, they should have the option to tell the architect, that this look great, but if the architect really want to se this to happen, then it need to share more than nice surroundings and expensive volumes build with an outdated technology. I think that true new technology and building methods can be as important as sharing the respect about the sites, and from my point of view, it is better to build the right thing tomorrow ,than building the wrong thing today.
My role in this, could be to point to what everyone seemed to miss about Digital building methods, ------- that maybe the architects been walking a dead end road with features that was offered 10 years ago , overlooking the opportunity that there are several not just _one_ new technology. That just because one technology show you fancy Legoworks on the screen don't mean this is already build and you can use this fancy 2,5 thing for anything but selling the project, where 3D-H go strait to the machine.
Please remember, that where you need the standard architect applications to document for each meter wall you put in as blocks to be able to count how many bricks at what cost, you don't need this with 3D-H , as with this you need to know what is will cost , to have this many feet cut while your "wall" perform quite different with this new idea. Also , as 3D-H don't work with 20 different steel profiles, bolts hangers to patch the weak corners, ---- then with 3D-H these things do not exist, as everything are sheet material or steel tubes , not standard ones, but some made from sheet materials . Now please don't ask me to deal with the trouble being an artist ; but please se that if the WTC build-around will be what the world expect, it will be jobs , progress and visions. Please se that a building method can be as important as the right answers, as the actual impression or worse expression of the site that will show the direction for this century , --------- I am not here to tell about my personal frustrations, but about my Visions and you can trust my abilities ,as my worse critic are myself.
My graphics simply wasn't good enough to explain ,that this is my gift and that to this to catch on, one visionary artist can point to the solution ,then it must be the academics that is lazy, as my "job" is not doing their job ;))
Again thank's for all the nice input ; I do my best, but you need to find your bread, and in the arts world this is nothing new ; I am a real person and artists have family ,depth and everyday problems ,so if was just some smart designer and not a seriously working one, I would have no trouble and could promote this thing much better. But instead you found a person who only force the high-tech when it really is better, who can prove he build all those nice wooden boats even they are _much_ more than what you expect when you se them , but I know that I am also a very "different" person ,than what you expect from a smooth designer type, ---- that's why I rather discuss the method than the poor conditions in the land of Lego, if someone try challenge the Lego mind ; really they don't like me, but what do I have to lose.
Per Corell
Copenhagen-Denmark
http://www.designcommunity.com/scrapbook/images/2197.jpg
Hi
I have to agree to my ignorance, and it is true I have not answered your question directly and pointed to the relevant documentation.
I spend a lot of your time explaining the role of an artist year 2002 and I hope you se how exhausting it must be both to be expected to point to the visions , that could be seen as the job of the artist, and at the same time manage the math. skills of an engineer to document the tech. aspects.
Now there _are_ a few small structures I done ,not to prove the method but where I needed to make something where I used the system as it worked here, ---- but these are bad examples ; when I talk about how nice it will be to avoid 20 different steel profiles with the fittings they each need, is is simply a bad example, if I show a simple box for a Sub-woffer that in terms of construction, is only interesting, as _this box show another new lock system for the "frames" that in the box are sides, and even this lock system I used in this very small 3D-H build speaker box actuary are very interesting , ---- it is not very relevant talking about houses ; hope you seen that the 3D-H framework will be an attractive alternative in many, and very different applications.
Still Please se my situation ; with my practical experience as boatbuilder and boat designer, I know what will hold and what will not . Please remember that the artistic aspects is not just fragile abilities and un explainable skills , -------- When I or anyone with boating experience "se" a boat hull on land, you can be 90 pct. sure that what anyone with hands-on experience say about the boat, will be true. On land an experienced boatbuilder should be able to "calculate" the abilities and safety of any boat hull, ------- with the best ever computer, the one on top of your head. Now 12-15 years ago I had the dream to be able to use what I imagined a computer could provide in terms of design tools, I had very specific wishes to this and they all deal with the trouble bringing something beautiful and perfect, into the real world.
Now please know, that just because you have a nice painting, this do not mean that you can go and cut a panel for your dream boat from a fancy computer graphic. And the same count with computer programs i a creative process in general , as unless your goal are a fancy 2D picture , you will not be working with paint brushes but advanced 3D array's and complicated math. Still even I tried my best, being a skilled boatbuilder and even a registrated application developer for one of the most complicated CAD programs to know, I am still an artist I am self thought ,autodidact whatever, ------- as long as I se my visions fulfilled. Maybe you don't understand this fully and know what it mean, and I recognize your wish for a solid documentation, but you must also ask yourself if I didn't already do most ,with the graphics .
I know the 3D-Honeycomb method have limitations, but these are rather options, as with the speaker box I just mentioned, a "problem" showed a new solution expanding the possibilities. perhaps I should explain it a bit square ; the academics who should be able to do the theoretic and calculations would never get the Vision, and the Visionary don't have the social skills to get the idea thru the academic interests. This leave the artist with the expenses. Now artists is not always' very rich people and you are already on lose ground, when an artist want to build a "proto type" ; then is he really an artist or an inventor.
So please exchouse not just me, but the conditions for today's artists, as if they don't produce exactly what they are expected to, ----- something useless or at least something that is good being a social thing, ---- then they are not even artists, and as I already told , things work very different than you would think, for people with a creative mind and bad social skills within academic circles. Now you maybe will say that that is where you belong ,being a visionary boatbuilder who invented a completely new form language , but "no-no" ; no matter how good you are ,and even more important in terms of your question , even you produce the prototype that prove what you ask , you are not one step further ahead ; there are a massive wall of academic interests in front you if you in a small country "think you are better than us".
Now you don't know this country ,and maybe you know a few Danes who made their way with Visions or skills, just imagine to be talking against the Lego mind and Lego system in the land of Lego, where Lego are sacred and every academic who need a holiday just ask one of the fonds ; I haven't had a holiday since 20 years as I never was able to afford one, All the money I ever had left always' was put into the next project , now how should I be able to build a house just to prove the idea ; the academics just close their eyes anyway as I seen how architect contests work ; I seen how a jury have written that "not one single proposal deal with combining the digital possibilities to produce each single building component" , even my suggestion was not dealing with anything else , -------- then you lose the last trust in academics within the arts, and must realize that either they are blind or they are corrupted.
Well enough about the bad conditions for visionaries or true artists who don't deliver the Icons for social environment, ----- The reason you ask are very simple ; I don't have the money to build the documentation .
Now thank's taking the time checking why new visions always' mean different things for the artist and the "audience" , To compensate I uploaded 3 small graphics , and as ever I had to decide if this should be something of that , I find easy but is in fact a completely new form language , shouted for by academics for decades, but I found these 3 small graphics that almost is to simple ;
First a number of frames ready to be assembled;
http://www.designcommunity.com/scrapbook/2250.html
Then after they been sliced together ;
http://www.designcommunity.com/scrapbook/2251.html
And finally to keep on topic , a very instructive bunch of frames , ------ please se that you don't need as many frames as this, but this is mainly an example, as each second frame can easy be removed, if your experience tell you;
http://www.designcommunity.com/scrapbook/2252.html
Per Corell
Per,
Maybe what you need is a partner who can translate your ideas to reality or to functional applications. I think I see what you are saying and wish you well..
Excellence is its own reward!
"The first rule is to keep an untroubled spirit.
The second is to look things in the face and know them for what they are."
--Marcus Aurelius
Did I read something about there is 200 million dollars and if we send $25,000 we get to keep half of the 200 million?
You've been actually reading that email you get from Nigerians?.
Excellence is its own reward!
"The first rule is to keep an untroubled spirit.
The second is to look things in the face and know them for what they are."
--Marcus Aurelius
Well yeah! But if they are offering you half and me half seems one of us will come up short. I better stop payment on that check!
Thank you for the lovely picture!
Merry Christmas!
Jen
Build two in full scale with actual materials. Have the raw materials, the manipulations of these materials and the assembly of the structures witnessed by well established and credible observers. Document everything and include actual costs both material, labor and services. Have one tested to destruction by an independent testing laboratory.
Choose a family at random to live in the building for not less than five years in a four season climate and document all energy and maintenance costs. During this time the building should remain open for regular tours, inspections and evaluations by outside observers, certification authorities and code approval boards.
Be prepared to repeat the entire process at least twice for the US market. At least four times for Western Europe. Etc. Do all of this on your dime as few I know would risk a dollar on broad and flowery prose, pretty pictures and unsolicited postings on random bulletin boards.
I would love to see pictures of the completed project, destructive testing and assembly process. It promises to be illuminating, educational, groundbreaking or just good for a laugh. Keep us informed how things go. Good luck.
Hi
You are quite right, ----- these are the trouble, and there are no way out.
What will seem a bit unjust for a develober in this situation though, is the fact that the standard methods have generations to develob step by step ,test by test, where a compleatly new method then have to compeed with quite a handicap when you se it this way. Still you are right that each new method have to prove for it's own.
Now as I said before, I did not just take this issue, and put it right to the group ; I did most of the homework by discussing the method in an architecture group first, ------also I don't want to vaste your time, and even before I did this, I had F.A.A. to check the method. I was very surprised , as acturly F.A.A. made a very nice reply ,very much like the positive response I seen in this and other groups ( now please don't think I hount any newsgroup with fanatic frameworks, this is not my style ) . What F.A.A. ansvered ,was that they would point to the method ,as a very attractive method for manufactoring of small commersial airplanes, -------- nice to know but as in any other "group" it was a few mails ,with a few of the same arguments as I heard in this and the architecture groups ,before they could understand the whole concept, --------- but at that point I had a positive response ; This is difficult to grasp for most people at first glimpse ,but please know, that for every mail and ansver, I am most thankfull as if you seriously say you are a designer, you can't just deal with the fancy looks but often need the ability to solve technical problems , you need to be able to "listen" , be able to prove what you progress by even building it yourself, you need respect for the crafts and tools, ------- and most important a clean workshop.
Before this mail get to long, I must point to the fact, that when I say this work as you se in the graphics, I don't doubt that test builds are needed. But even you se this as a halve baked idear, the option of an earthquake safe house soon show, beside there are several way's to "turn" the meshwork formed, so it is very simular to the useal crapwork ( sorry I couldn't let it be, still I wonder if my english are getting better or vorse ) , ------ but fact is that inverstigating the method, it bring more solutions than problems, and the solutions often are tried before ; ----- please remember that a 3D-Honeycomb will not pancake, and if you ever builded what we in Dk. call a card house on the table before you, you allready found that vertical and horisontal cards as how a standard building structure are with floors and walls, will soon be replaced with a card house where you lean one card against another , realey you can se 3D-H as simple as this ; a way to build a stronger foundation that will not pancake and a way to build using only "sheet materials" .
Then why do I share this idear ; well I am as I told a danish designer trying to make his bread. Maby you think that artist today are wealthy arogant puppies at the end of the strings of the arts gallaries, ------- they are, but that's becaurse the arts world develobed into a social game. I se myself as a true artist ,I have the age to allow this luxury as one of the few I can afford, I never had the social skills and proberly live in the wrong contry for visionary idears . Now if you think denmark are an easy contry to be an artist without being an academic you are wrong, and my fight for the visions you seen, have not been easy as Im'e not in with the cultural crowd, develobed tons of new way's and nice designs without the aid you get from fonds , climbing the academic latter. I live as an artist would live 1905 ,1932 ,1950 -------- not as the protected academic but with my own visions as the only fuel . Maby this is how things shuld be, --------- that results have to prove by compeeding, but with my work within design and architecture ,things don't work in competisions, as academics also took over these . So you guy's are my best audience ; you don't have anything but plain sense and obvious impression to defend , and I rather put up some nice designs for you to decide, than offering these in a local contest, where everyone know anyone, and no one have a clue about computers ; guess Im'e not the first dane to fly academic rule.
One thing I must say though, is that to get F.A.A. to accept the method I had to draw a few plane fuselages, to make the architects se the visions, I had to draw a few hundred of houses, volumes and gangway's , for this I had to build a few boats not as an amature but with profesional boatbuilder skills, when that was over, I had to become a filosof and deal with calculations and regulations aso. aso.; no the job as danish designer is not an easy one, esp with a method that cover so many things. Just check the Bargebridge, --- man I even had to come up with a name for it ;))
(sorry I can make the spellcheck load).
http://www.designcommunity.com/discussion/23842.html
Nice talking to you
"Funny............... this guy can continue making references to my name in a negative manner without any repercussions from anyone at Taunton Press. I wonder why???"
I'm guessing that it's because you have ruined your own name here countless times. So people don't really take it seriously anymore. It's really easy to use it for a reference the way you have trashed it. Honestly I think everyone has shown outstanding retraint by not flooding the board with references to it. Of course most are regular guys and are above your standards, so it's not surprising really.
Season greetings, love Gunner :)
Hmm..., I wonder what is negative about a self-protective bravado.
Who used your name?
You did.
Excellence is its own reward!
"The first rule is to keep an untroubled spirit.
The second is to look things in the face and know them for what they are."
--Marcus Aurelius
Larry,
All your base are belong to us.
Don't bogart the Ghost
Quittin' Time
ROFLOL
Not at all what I expected.
: )
I expected you to ask what that meant.
It is an obscure reference. A line from an old computer game. Made in Japan or China or somewhere, and translated into english. The game stank so badly that it quickly became the brunt of amny jokes. It was more fun to make reference to the game than it was to play the game. (It was so bad that I have even forgotten what the name of the game was. All I remember is some of the lines we used to toss around. LOL)
: )
Don't bogart the Ghost
Quittin' Time
"Zero Wing" for the Genesis...;)
Jen
(Contributed by our resident video game consultant)
ROFLMFAO
Now that would have been a PERFECT title for that game.
: )
Larry, I'm just trying to somehow show you that maybe you need to learn to laugh at yourself a bit more often. Don't always take yourself so seriously. It makes you an easy target. Kinda like that game...
; )
Don't bogart the Ghost
Quittin' Time
I did not bring my name into this discussion or references to it in several others for that matter, to continue these personal attacks is outrageous without allowing me to respond.
This will probably only be deleted.
Larry Martin
All,
One more thing. If you all don't want me around than stop using my name in a negative manner and I'll be more than happy never to return.
Larry Martin
Edited 12/26/2002 6:35:40 PM ET by Larry
Larry,
As soon as you stop posting for good, then the process of becoming forgotten will begin. After a few months, your name will hardly be mentioned at all. In a couple of years it will be completely absent from all new postings.
Every time you post you put off that day. It is just the way the world works. Didn't you go to high school??
Rich Beckman
Another day, another tool.
"As soon as you stop posting for good, then the process of becoming forgotten will begin. After a few months, your name will hardly be mentioned at all. In a couple of years it will be completely absent from all new postings.
Every time you post you put off that day. It is just the way the world works. Didn't you go to high school?? "
Maybe in your dreams.
I got new for you,this is not going away for Taunton Press anytime in the near future .
Drugs, Drugs are baaaad mm'kay.