in addressing the issue of what might be causing pressure above the center of french-style sliding doors (see attachments), i came to realize the deck above the doors is leaking water into the cavity between the upper and lower decks at the point where the roofline meets the upper deck. the sheetrocked ceiling of the lower deck is completely saturated. i’ve demoed the sheetrock, exposing the rafter tails of the roof. the doubled-up end rafter sits almost directly over the center of the door opening.
i’m trying to figure two things:
1. what’s causing the failure at the juncture of the raftertails, roof sheathing and deck joists
2. is there a way to jack up and resupport the raftertails and joists, so as to alleviate the pressure above the door
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no attachment
what is the roofing material above?
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sorry i can't seem to get the attachments to attach...the house was built in 2000. i think it's fancy asphalt shingles and the deck is some sort of weird stretchy stuff-not torch down. IMG_3345.JPG
Attachements are tough to do at first.
Click on "reply" to any post, then at the bottom is blue button "attach files" ... you probably have to scroll down a little. It help if your picture is a jpg (I see that it is) and if the size is less than 200k ... around 120k works well. Follow the instreuctions, and if you are on dial-up you have to be very patient. Basically you click 'browse' and select the file, then click 'upload' and then 'done' but wait for it to show the atttached file.
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skinnied down pix. hopefully you can them now
How's the door sill flashed? The door sill should be higher than the roof membrane so the membrane can be turned up.http://logancustomcopper.com
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the door sill is higher than the membrane and about 2ft behind where the roof hits the deck-and this is dry from the view below. from the deck below, the roof sheathing is saturated where the rafters meet with the joists between the two doorways but not under the actual door.
Yeah, that is what I was hearing - the EPDM should be runn up under the shingles a good 18" so that could be check out, and no roof nails in the shingles should be more than about 8" above the break there.The corner where shingles end and small wall turns up to meet dormer has a lot of opportunity to leak there.Youmight have to remove some shingles to trace this back if nothing is obvious
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OK, You are asking a couple of totally different questions as I see it. One is structural and the other is about leakage.
I'll take leakage.
That is a very poor design. There are fourty or fifty points where water could be entering. here are a few, not in oprder of suspect or importance;
Doors should be curbed up, panned and sealed under.
Shingles could be without underlayment and leaking at flashings in lots of various places further up and just displaying as they hit the deck.
There are multiple dificult flashing situations, such as the interior sidewall shingle situation 16" tall near the doors.
the mebrane may be EPDM and may have suffered a simple puncture someplace. Easy to patch with right stuff if you can find it.
All the sidewalls in those dormers may not be properly dried in with paper lapped the right way
You have gutters onthe dormers that appear to terminate at the roof so all kinds of bad stuff can be happening there, from water backing up in valleys, to bad flashing detail directing water into the interior, to God knows what else.
If I were a leak, I'd have a a party there!
I suspect the door as most likely candidate, but you say you see first evidence at junction of shingle and flat roof? Is that right?
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so upon peeking behind shingles, it appears that the flat roof material extends rather substantially. and simultaneously, where the shingled + flat roof conjoin there is no cracking or puncturing, but much evidence of puddling. there is cracking at the flat roof 4x8 sheathing seams-but not near where the wettness is visible from down below. there is, however, a lot of mushiness throughout the entire roof/deck-and it's a rather large roof/deck at that...i believe the shear weight of wet materials is possibly promoting a negative slope toward the points of issue...is it possible that the original installers didn't use the proper application technique? or, perhaps too much moisture in gig harbor for this type of roofing material? or most likely, the now bankrupt former contractor/builder really didn't know what he was doing...?
anything is possible.The mushieness could be above the roof sheathing. It is common to use a special underlayment to provide a smooth surface to glue the membrane to. It could be this is where you fell water trapped and mushy.Can you tell if there is any step flashing at the side walls of the dormer?
And
Where does the water in the gutters dump?
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step flashing is in place and looks fine. the gutters, i've discovered, have simple cut outs where the gables meet the rest of the rooftop. then they gush down to meet the flat roof. come to find also, that over the entire back span of the house, of which the deck runs about 75ft, there are merely two down spouts...if the roof was leaking and simply covered over without addressing the actual problem of faulty roof, is it possible that the new roof coating would fail in the same spots?and thanks, piffin, for the type-a-logue. it's been helpful...
I'm probably allout of ideas without being there to poke and prod...That gutter idea looks good but it is spectacularly bad froma practical POV. They are sending water agains the flow from valleys already. In a hard rain, It is hard to imagine how water could not back up into the structure.
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achee... nice looking house... the devil is in the details
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where is it located ?Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
the house is outside gig harbor, washington in a "town" (don't blink) called vaughn. 5 bedrm+ 11000sq ft and it's for sale, as is. only 2.3mil with the most spectacular view across a bay with oysters practically knockin' on the door...a cottage and studio on 5.5 acres
achee,
I wonder if the perimeter flashing of the deck is water tight, as well as does the walking deck have slope away from the main building?
well, as fate would have it, the slight steady drizzle all day long caused the drip drop of leak in the now exposed deck joists to flow freely to the lower deck-right in front of the 12ft of door/window. seems like the sheathing of the sloped roof ends under the edge of the deck sheathing and a + b = c . the owner probably will have the roof replaced as some contingency with the sale of this "as is" piece of real estate. wanna buy it? it really is a great place with the exception of some shoddy execution of construction...
Textbook bad design.
What's under the roof? Is it accessible?
Probably best to start prying stuff off.
A quick inspection that shows poorly flashed areas would be the first place to tear into since it should be reflashed anyway.
Piffin did a good job of covering the things that I could think of.
Good luck.
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