I’m in the process of buying some tools that I’ll need when I move out of my parents house and start to take on remodeling or other projects. Up to this point, I’ve always used my dad’s tools. Since I’m not a contractor depending on my tools to make a living, I don’t need to buy the very best. At the same time, I don’t mind spending a little extra to get a better product of higher quality that will last longer. I’ve decided that my next tool is going to be a circular saw. I’m looking to buy a 7.25†blade-right sidewinder by the end of the month. I don’t want a saw loaded with gimmicks like the laser on the front (Crapsman) or quick blade change (PC). A good base plate is a must. By reading the 2004 and 2005 tool guides, the Hitachi and Milwaukee saws stand out. I don’t have a particular brand preference at this point. I’ll probably be upgrading the blade on whatever I buy to Freud. Since I can only get so much info from what I read in catalogs and on the web, I would appreciate any advice on your experience with different models.
Replies
I've pretty much settled on the PC blade left. It's the one saw that I've used that I seek out when I have a choice. It's a good balance stout enough for anything. I haven't tried the quick change model, I don't much care for the idea either.
Who Dares Wins.
8 1/4" B&D Sawcat
PC right blade
PC Sawboss
Makita Hypoid
You guys amaze me. If I get a year out of a sidewinder, I'm impressed. Probably 85% of my work is as a framing sub. I like to get indoors for January and February, but most of the rest of the time... I'm framing.
I go through at least 3 sidewinders a year with my crew. I've got a great boneyard of circ saws in my garage. In fact I've got a PC blade left that got used maybe twice that nobody likes along with a PC blade right that has the corner of the table bent slightly and needs a cord.... thinking I'll send those down to Rhode Island for Mike Smith to ressurect. The rest have severely bent tables, smoked motors, busted guards, or horrendous slop.
Anyway here's my opinion.... the older PC's were/are good saws... but the table bends fairly easily. Won't try the new model. The Milwaukee Tilt-Loc is another awesome sidewinder, great balance, tough base, and lots of power.... but they get VERY sloppy after 6 months or so.
I can't stand those tinny Makita's. I know guys who swear by 'em, but I hate them. Just my opinion. They sound bad, feel bad, and don't cut great. The bevel adjust and depth adjust are archaic and don't work well with gloves. Again, just my opinion.
Now, that Bosch wormdrive is a WARRIOR. That's my saw of choice, but I can't get my guys to cross over from sidewinders to worms and I'm not going to make them do something they are not comfortable with. So this spring I bought a pair of the new Bosch CS20's. They're pretty darn good so far. The rafter hook is handy, the depth guage rocks, and they bevel to 56 degrees. I have noticed a bit of slop lately. Not bad, I think I just need to crank everything back down on them. The base plates scared the crap out of me cuz they are plastic. But I've seen them survive the usual 6 foot ladder drops and one drop that I know of from the foundation top to the footing...about 8 feet or so. Cold weather's coming... that'll really show us how tough that base is. So far.... very good overall. I've heard complaints that the base flexes against a speed square or is not square to the blade. I haven't had either problem with my saws.
So right now, that truck carries the honerary 77, my Bosch wormer, two Bosch CS20's, and shiny Milwaukee Tilt-Loc that I use for stair stringers and finish only.
The boneyard of saws gets picked through and burnt up doing the tearoffs for add-a-levels.
Take what you want, and leave the rest.
EDIT: FWIW, I've found that putting out a chop saw on the job has greatly reduced the wear and tear on the circ saws this year. We used to do everything with circ saws, but I picked up a good chop saw on the cheap last winter. Im also spending alot less on 7 1/4" blades since introducing the chop saw. I think quality and consistency overall has gone up a hair too.
Edited 10/3/2004 1:12 pm ET by dieselpig
Good post. It sounds our job situation is about the same. I use two of the Bosch worm drives and my little saw is a DeWalt. I forget the number, but its the framer with the built in rafter hook. I use it when I'm cutting hardiplank or doing soffit and fascia. I've been setting up my chopsaw for a long time now, because I found out it saves on wear and tear on the skilsaws and increases accuracy and productivity. I have a 708 Dewalt and use the Sawhelper fence. It has a tape measure that measures from the blade edge and one that comes off the stop supplied with the Sawhelper. I can do repetitive cuts with the stop, like trimmers, cripples, etc. or use the tape that comes off the blade for quick single cuts. I have found that it speeds a guy up a lot when he doesn't have to grab a tape and pencil when he walks up to the saw. My Sawhelper is the kind that has 9' "wings", so I can use it for 16' boards pretty easily. My contractors joke about the garage being my dedicated space as long as I'm on the job because I set up my chopsaw there every day, almost. I use a little 6-1/2" Dewalt cordless trimsaw quite a bit, too.
Gotta love that Sawhelper system.
My first Milwaukee circ. saw is 20 y.o. and still going strong!
I got one of the new milwaukees fo X-mas a couple of years ago, and sofar I like it.
Mr T
I can't afford to be affordable anymore
Just like MR T...I have used a MIL for 20 yrs, and still going..I have a new Mil. that has the different blade height ajuster, and I prefer the new one for that.
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations.
I read in a tool magazine a review of circle saws a couple of years ago that compared all of the popular professional grade saws, the article ended with the comment " while the Porter Cable was chosen as the crew favorite the Mil was judged as the best of the best". I agree, I've been using the Mil brand for twenty plus years. Almost half my power tools are either Mil or Porter Cable I don't think you can go wrong with either one. Good Luck
Speaking of PC. Do you think the quality will go downhill now that Black and Decker bought them?
I hope not. I recently met the Porter Cable rep at a local HD asked him why HD is cutting back on their PC inventory (they no longer handle the cordless PC drills) he replied that PC does not dummy down their tools to sell at competetive prices like most of the other tool companies do. Will this change under B&D ? Again, I hope not. I no longer buy any power tools at HD or Lowes since I found out that they are demanding lower prices from the tool companies. Lower prices means something has got to go and that is usually the quality of the tool. You can still buy the PC, Milwaukee, Bosch etc at contractor quality by buying at the local tool supplier or lumber yard. The Big Box stores suck!
As hard as it may be to believe......
I wish I had back my old Black N Decker....Best saw I ever owned.
so now I have an antique PC I bought offa Ebay.all metal and heavier than the left coasters wormers.
Be a sidewinder
####The secret of Zen in two words is, "Not always so"!
http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
My 20 year old Skilsaw #77 works just fine, and can even make those annoying 1/8" trim cuts... as long as you learn how to jam a carpenter's pencil in the guard to keep it open! Seriously, the Dewalt has gotten some great reviews and I think if I buy another framing saw I'll try one of those. Just about everyone I work with has either a Skil or a Milwaukee.... in fact I can only remember one other saw (a Makita) ever on a job.
I have yet to pick up a PC that I didn't say was crap, and Mil's are marginal. The new toy Mil is cute tho.
Buy this one >>> http://www.toolsforless.com/cgi-bin/ToolBig.pl?SKU=5007NBK
(I suggest anyone that wants to debate me have as many hours on the end of a saw as I have, and tried as many as I have. You weirdo wormies, well I can't help you.)
I drive a Milwaukee that's about 17 or 18 years old now and works like new. I don't know what the new ones are like but one great thing about the old ones is how easy they are to maintain. I can replace the gear grease in the Mil in 20 min from the time I unplug until I have it running again, Because this is so easy, it has never needed a bearing replaced.
W ith my Mil, I can also start angled cuts up to about 45 degrees without lifting the blade guard first. I don't know another saw that will do that.
I have come very close to being slashed by a Makita saw because the blade guard clearance is so tight any little chip will jam it open, so then I'd put it down still spinning with the blade guard open. It's happened to me twice and now I'll only ever touch a Makita saw to unplug it and heave it. I don't like the sound of them either.
Ron
What was it that you disliked so much about the PC saw? Which saw where you looking at?? The 7.25 framers saw or something different. Just wondering as I have the PC 347 ( 7.25 blade right) and dont have any real problems with it. Guys I work with seem to like it a lot too. Course it is getting a little rough after being left out in the rain a few too many times.
-m2akita
have as many hours on the end of a saw .....yadda yadda...
sorry bud, we can't all be crusty old men yet....
Bosch worm would be my choice.....
Well, I'm getting on the crusty side of things, have a couple of Milwaukies, a PC sidewinder and 3 or 4 Skil 77's.
The best of them all is my Bosch (new and improved 77) wormdrive....great saw.
BTW, someone mentioned how a PC rep stressed that Porter Cable won't compromise their high quality (or words to that effect). Well, some of their stuff is great, but I've got a couple of their coil roofing guns that are what I would expect from B& D or Sears.
I have an old 77 that just won't die, a PC blade left a saw boss, and I have blade right PC somewhere, but it's been MIA for a while... and the new Bosch version of the 77.
the Bosch is my favorite hand's down... I carry the Bosch the beater 77 and the Saw boss in the truck... the other two sit.
The saw boss is a damn handy little saw for it is IMO.
and lately PC seems to stand for Piece o'crap with some of their newer tools, they seem to be going the way of craftsman and dumbing things down. oh well... I find myself buying a lot more Bosch now then anything...
Notice most of the milwaukee guys are talking about their 20 year old saws. I agree with them. My buddy had an old mil till we got ripped off last year. He replaced it with a new mil and neither one of us liked the new saw. I was ready to buy based on his old saw but now i'm sure I wont buy one. I was looking toward Bosch or maybe Dewalt.
Ya, worms work really well for finish work.
Oh, good luck getting to old and crusty,
love my skill 61/2" worm. fits lie a glove and plenty o powertyke
Just another day in paradise
hey, matt.... the makita is roy's favorite too... but neither one of you know what you're talking about .....
left handed PC.......beats 'em allMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Did I ever say I know what I'm talking about?
I know a lot of people like the PC saws, but I am having a hard time thinking anything PC is good any more.
I have to put in one more vote for the PC - 347 or something like that. Light, powerful.
Qtrmg, we agree on the Makita.
I have many, many years on PCs, and Milwaukees.
I've run several others for limited amounts of times.
Hitachis don't bounce. They break.
Pcs suck in general. Not balanced, don't bounce well, rattle apart.
Milwaukee would be my second choice if they didn't feel so heavy. Even after I get done customizing it....it's still feels too heavy.
And I also agree about those worm phreaks. I'd love to see them using their worms like I frame with my cusomized greenie.
blue
If you want to read a fancy personal signature... go read someone else's post.
For all who use right blade:
I still don't understand how you can safely cut with a 2x resting on your foot using a right blade saw.
When you pull from the left, your off-cut is on the right side of the line...your tape measure numbers are right side up, and with a left blade saw everything works out perfectly. And you don't have to peer through a little peep hole or anything to see where the blade is cutting.
I guess it's just the way I learned it.
And don't make the easy jab...I can read a tape upside-down (underwater too).
Blue moose....I don't, and never will cut anything off my foot.
I use sawhorses, benches, makeshift sawhorses etc. Never my foot.
Its all a matter of perspective. I don't peek through any hole, I can clearly see my blade by leaning over my work. This posture allows me allow the weight of the saw to swing like a pendulum beneath my torso. If I used a blade left, I'd have to hold the weight away from me in a manner that would do damage to my already damaged spine. No thanks.
I tried one cut with a blade left (a PC), just to see if there was something there that I might like.....NO F IN WAY! I'll never pick up another one....not even for "one quick cut". I'd rather walk down a ladder, and drive to a big box and buy and new makita.
I'll take some pictures of how I do business with my makita and post them here. After you look, then you can tell me how a blade left, or a wormie would do better.
blue
If you want to read a fancy personal signature... go read someone else's post.
Well.....
I guess we can all stop wondering now that the Almighty BRISKETBEAN has spoken.
All hail the gospel of BRISKETBEAN!
Didnt know whether to laugh or cry after reading BKISKETBEAN's post. Right now Im chuckling. Wonder what he's like on a job site??!!! Stand back and watch out ( kinda reminds me of my step-grandfather)!!!!
Man, you really tear through the saws. Fine HomeBuilding needs you for their next circular saw review.
-m2akita
Just now read this thread, best comment overall was your FWIW paragraph on setting up cheap chop saws (with 12 ft table I assume). Last few buildings I put up were 90% with 10" chop saw plus old RAS and table saw on site, only use SW on odd cuts. My chop and RAS were mostly $40 or less garage sale buys so don't worry about theft, if somebody wants to saw thru the 1/2 cable molly hogan loop welded wire rope tiedown, they can have it.
For a different take on sw's , my preference is the cheap old ($2-3 at garage sales) skil 574's and the like*. Light and powerful enough for most. For ripping down the end of a 2X6 t&g 60 ft deck still use a 30 YO 15A Craftsman (they were good then).
*even have picked up some of the newer crap with safety switch, 2 minutes with a soldering gun or glue gun and the switch is permanently engaged. The advantage of 10 old cheap saws is you don't cry if it slides off the roof, different blade in every one for "quick change", etc. ...
JunkHound I believe you should have been a farmer. You have changed my outlook on life. I like your quick blade change method a whole lot.
I'm considering a right blade saw and guide system purchase, primarily for finish work. I have an old Milwakee right blade but the trigger sticks occasionally and the base adjustment is getting pretty sloppy. I don't think I've made a cut with it since I bought my left blade PC.
I don't believe I've ever used a Makita. What is it about the saw that has you and Qrtrmeg sold on it? Is it the balance, durability, power...? How does the Aluminum base hold up?
I almost hate to admit this, but I'm leaning toward the Dewalt for one feature only - The ability to tune the paralell alignment of the base to the blade for precision cutting with a guide system. My application for the right blade is pretty much going to be dedicated to that.Kevin Halliburton And with that, the great emporer Oz gently floated away on a curtain of hot air, laughing at the unfortunate ignorance of little people beneath him. But under his breath he cursed that stupid little dog...
Hey Kevin,
I've had my Milwaukee worm drive for 20Yrs +. The base worked its way loose and made some finish ripping I was doing on a deck virtually impossible. I had the repair guy put on a new base, but in the mean time, I got a Bosch. I cannot believe the difference in balance, etc. I will keep the Milwaukee for a back-up, but there is no question that the Bosch is the first one I go for. Hope you are well!
BB
Trouble is we dont get to run all these saws . I would like to though. LOL.
Id like to run that Mag 77 and a few more mentioned. I wondered about the Dewalt too.
Tim Mooney
Edited 10/5/2004 1:56 pm ET by Tim Mooney
Hi GWA.
With a guide system is better to have a circular saw with electric brake and dust port for vacuum hose.
The brake allows you to lift the saw from the guide without waiting for the blade to stop. (The other way is a plunch saw.)
And with the dust port (vacuum) you can cut more elegant let say.
The Dewalt has the adj.base feature but there is no problems reported with a non adj.base yet.
YCF Dino
Kevin, I am a full time professional framer. I make hundreds of cuts per day. Most are crosscuts. Rips are uncommon, almost rare. I occasionally need to cut items in place while holding the saw in some very awkward positions. I NEVER use a guide, unless you call my finger, pencil or a stick, a guide. I cut a lot of nasty, nailed, stapled, windbraced metal items. I toss my saw up onto the second floor from the first. I bounce my saw quite often.
I want my saw fast and light, yet powerful enough to chew through wood with a dull blade (I often end up having only one or two teeth left). The balance is important, because I do an awful lot of free hand cutting....that means...nothing but the blade is dancing over the wood. I bevel most rafters by eye.
You, on the other hand have a very specific use. Your needs are 180 degrees from mine. You should buy the saw that will fit your more narrowly defined needs. I wouldn't hesitate myself to buy a different saw for different application. I own lots of different guns, staplers and other assorted specialty stuff, and would probably choose a different saw if I did other stuff....
On second thought.....naaaawwwwww!
blue
PS someone mentioned that the Makita had a bad table adjustment and depth control system. I agree. That is the one thing that I don't like about the saw. If you want to read a fancy personal signature... go read someone else's post.
I've been using Makitas for over 20 years. Started out framing with them, now mostly trim. I just like the way they handle. I'm glad to see you & Qmeq & others reinforce my sometimes idiotic notions...ha,ha,ha.. Don't worry, we can fix that later!
It's amazing how often we have the same idiotic notions tho, ain't it?
Well, you did go Dewalt on me one time, but I still think you are ok. ;-)
I have a left hand CS. Can someone explain to me though why they say some righties like using the left handed saws? Seems dangerous and very awkward if you were to have the blade towards you (i.e. holding a left handed saw right handed)
Larry
I have a left hand CS. Can someone explain to me though why they say some cordless like using the left handed saws? Seems dangerous and very awkward if you were to have the blade towards you (i.e. holding a left handed saw right handed)
Tell that to the power tool companies. All the cordless saws (ok.90%) are left bladed. But they have it all cover. If you see the pictures of the left bladed saws in their ads you will notice that the hand using that saw is LEFT HAND.
But you know..Companies today they fill appetites. And the left bladed saws are COOL in US... only. It all started from the name Magnum 77. Sounds like a gun.
I think Clint Eastwood started all. His the one to blame about left bladed saws and not only.
YCF Dino
So shed some additional light on this for me. Why would a rightie want to run a CS with the blade closest to him? I've heard the "better line of sight" issue but doesnt seem worth the safety risk.
I think I just told you.( I think you going to get me in trouble here)
The better line of sight is to draw your line (with an offset square) to the left of the saw base. ONE line. Instead draw your cutting line draw your visible line.(Off set line)
Then is easier to align your saw before you even start cutting. This way you have no kickbacks and a better cut. The same time the saw rests on the materials and you do'nt have to try to hold the saw from dropping with your cutoff piece that is another potential kickback.
I can only tell you the reasons why not to use a left bladed saw. With all my years in the trade if I have use a left bladed saw I don't think I will be able to type the my answer now.
Thanks for seeing the issue. For some time I was the only target here.Please get ready for some bullets now. And remember. They have the magnum and #77.
Good luck.
YCF Dino
Toolsguy, I suspect the evolution of the blade left was to appease the wormers that might buy a sidewinder if the blade was on the "correct" side.
We all feel most comfortable with what we learn on. The wormies use saws that are long and blade left. To make a cut, they need to back up a little. Sidewinders are normally used much more closer to the body. The user tends to tuck the saw under the torso and lean over to watch the close cuts.
The postures of winders and wormies is totally different on must cuts.
blueIf you want to read a fancy personal signature... go read someone else's post.
View ImageLooks like all Americans are lefties.
Where ya going with this?
I'm going no where with this. I think the preview posts say it all. The picture is just to validate them.
What is your thoughts About the picture? If the guy is using the left bladed saw with his left hand, and the companies only make left bladed saws then we all must be lefties.
YCf Dino.
dino.. i use all my saws with my right hand... which side the blade is on has nothing to do with it
my PC lefty is my saw of choice.. i bought a new Bosch Direct Connect to use with your EZ Guide.. but i didn't like it as much as my PC 743.. so i bought a reconditioned PC 347 to use with the EZGuide
as for one being safer than the other , i don't see how... once you develop the moves for working with a left bladed saw it is just as safe ( or unsafe ) as a right bladed saw..
what are the new attachments you've developed ?Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
... once you develop the moves for working with a left bladed saw it is just as safe ( or unsafe ) as a right bladed saw..
Yes Mike. I agree with you. 75% ( That you need to develop the moves.)
So the advice to a newcomer should be... Right blade is better for you.
I see homeowners and DIY's buying worm drives for their first saw.
And 90% of cordless are left bladed...... I'm outta this subject.
Give me few days and I will send you few new gadgets.
Dino -
I was getting ready to order a EZ Smart guide because it looked really slick. Didn't know you invented it. Great product.You get out of life what you put into it......minus taxes.
Marv
Thanks Marv.
It was design for me and few other lousy carpenters by me and few others lousy carpenters. (dinoproof) (idiotproof) 3 years and a ton of $$$$.So... the Idiotproof part is out. Forget about it.
Now we're thinking if we should make a left smart base or not.On one hand we lose sales but on the other we don't lose any fingers yet.
I wish I never have left my trade. Breaktime is the closest to holding a hammer again.
YCF Dino
I was actually looking for a blade left model for the bosch worm drive. But changed my birthday present to the blade right Bosch cs20 just because of your base.
I would also like to see a 24" guide on a hinge. Or a table with a hinged guide (like festool). Then when cutting cabinet sides, I could slide in the 12" or 24" melamine and use as a cut off tool. Is this something you already have?
You get out of life what you put into it......minus taxes.
Marv
Edit - I would also like to hear the trials and tribulations of your design and patent.
Edited 10/11/2004 1:55 pm ET by Marv
Marv.I will go over with you another day about the Dead Wood Concept and why we don't have the same table. The EZ Smart is design to accept two things
The Zero Clamps with Integrated measuring system for repeat cuts. (Zero clamps means that you can clamp anything down to Zero)
And the side arms (interlarded measuring and guide positioning system for panels.) With this items you have no need to hinge your guide and you still have all the freedom and portability.
The problem with a fix guide is that you have to move the panel to that table- place your saw to the guide- cut- remove your saw- move the guide and panel-place the saw to the guide and cut again.
On the other hand if you leave the panel on the cutting table and cut all the parts Without moving the panel and lift up your saw and guide on each and every cut,at the end of the day you don't need a chiropractor.
Me, I have one (full time) and I live on painkillers.
I would also like to hear the trials and tribulations of your design and patent.
Marv.Are you a sadist?
YCF Dino
To ALL,
I ask this one more time because I have asked this in the past with no response.
Do they make a Wormdrive with the blade on the right side............
Yes or No.
Everyone talks about how great the wormdrive is because you can see what your cutting but that is great for right handers. It means nothing for left handers having a wormdrive with the blade on the left. So to all who swears by the wormdrive that seeing what your cutting is great for right handers why don't they make a wormdrive with the blade on the right side for Left Handers so that they can use their left hand and see the piece of wood that they're cutting just like a right hander?????????
So what do you lefties do with a wormdrive? So far a lot of lefties I've talked to said they learn how to use their right hand.
Do they make a Wormdrive with the blade on the right side???????????
If not don't you lefties think that they should so that you can see what your cutting like the righties can?
Joe Carola
NO. They don't make a right bladed warm drive... for the lefties.
I wish they make one so I can use it.... With my right hand.
Goodnight guys.
YCF Dino
Edited 10/12/2004 12:28 am ET by YCFriend
Joe,
Porter Cable does make a worm with the blade on the right.
one minor problem...
it ain't what I would call a framing saw...
http://www.porter-cable.com/index.asp?e=547&p=2742
It's a start. Now why can't they make them the right size. I just don't get it. I guess the saw companies don't think there's any left handed carpenters.
Joe Carola
It's another left wing conspiracy and this belongs in The Tavern.
Mike
That make sense to me.They start with the left blade to gain popularity for the second time around. hh -hmmmmmm
I think I will visit the tavern soon.
YCF Dino
I'm a lefty, I even have that same saw...it's not a lefty, my makita is<G> I don't get what the big deal is about being right handed, carpenter pants have the hammer loops on the left side LOL Don't worry, we can fix that later!
48213.99
It's another left wing conspiracy and this belongs in The Tavern
Billy, Mike have the right answer.
YCF Dino
Edited 10/11/2004 8:01 pm ET by YCFriend
dino.. if you guys had a canvas carrying case for your EZ Guide.. i'd buy one. do you already have one ?
are you working on one ?Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Yes Mike. we're testing few cases and we should have one ready in 2-3 months. I think Paulb have a good source for a $20.00? gun case that works good.
Thanks You just remind me...
YCF Dino
Hey Mike...
I've got two SmartGuide setups and I went to Sports Authority looking for shotgun cases. They had a bunch of really nice aluminum ones marked down from 90 some odd to 24 bucks. They're rigid of course, but you could drop it out of a moving truck and not hurt your guide. I don't know if it was a chain wide sale, or if any are left. (This was about 3 weeks ago)...
If you'd like I can check my local store, if they have any left I can UPS it to you. What I'd really like to find is a case that will hold my circ saws with the Smartbases installed.
Paul
Edited 10/12/2004 8:16 am ET by PaulB
Edited 10/12/2004 8:17 am ET by PaulB
paul.. i'll check it out and let you know about the shotgun cases..
as for the saw base.. i was looking at that.. i think ican carve out enough material from my PC case so it will fit..
i'll let you know on that alsoMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
I tried that on my PC case Mike... it began to look like by the time I carved out enough innards that the base would clear that the case would just cave in but please let me know if you find a solution!
paul.. i went to Sports Authority tonite ( before the game )...
and looked at all of their cases.. they had some great aluminum ones .. but they were a lot bigger than i needed..
i got a nice black plastic with egg crate innards.. this on just holds the two sections side by side.. and room for the clamps.. it's a Dosko SE series double scoped rifle/shotgun case.. $25.
then i carved out two slots in my PC case for the base to slip in .. i can close the cover .. i'll try and get some pics tomorrow
anyways i'm pretty well set until Dino comes out with a new and improved case..
damn red sox.....Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
My condolences Mike...
Wait a minit, there's a broadway musical about the red sox? <G> Don't worry, we can fix that later!
paul.. here's how i cut the PC case so the base would slide in and i can close the cover..
View Image
and here's the double scoped rifle/shotgun case with the EZ Guide in place
View Image
anyways .. thanks for the Sports Authority tip.. just what the doctor ordered
Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Edited 10/13/2004 7:33 pm ET by Mike Smith
Edited 10/13/2004 7:34 pm ET by Mike Smith
Hi Mike.
Have you cut anything yet? this thing looks new to me.
We try few custom made cases for the EZ Smart and ...(finally) we have one that can hold up .I'm waiting to finalize few accessories first in order to have the inside of the case fit the parts right.
Thanks for the pictures.And the Idea about the Porter Cable case.
''Why don't I think of that before I throw all my cases to the dumpster?''
YCF Dino
DOHHHHH!!!! Why didn't I think of that??? I pretty much butchered up my PC case, hopefully I can still resurrect it and use your idea. Thanks for the photo Mike, and I'm glad the shotgun case worked out...
Paul
where you been, havent seen you much lately?
Idiots seem to travel in tight circles<G> I enjoy bumping into you, too...& that DeWalt's still cutting. 105 bucks to fix the old Makita 12" single pole, I just can't justify it with that teeny tiny fence...probably move on to the Bosch...can you tell, I have absolutly no brand loyalty...and speaking of idiots, I have 4 different kinds of cordless drills, something charging at every outlet, doh<G>
Don't worry, we can fix that later!
Yup me to, havent seen ya around and its good to see ya here.
I was on a job that has an ole carp Ive known most of my life as he started with my dad years ago. I asked about the makita I knew he ran. Yeppers , he had four of them. He said that he had bought a PC and they gave him a dewalt when he bought a bunch of blades from a salesman. This is what he said ;
I cant see good enough with the PC , but its ok as I bought it for the ease of depth change and the guide they sell for it . Its light enough, but doesnt fit my eye or hand. Oh well!
Theres nothing wrong with the Dewalt either , but it is too heavy and I know better than use it .
I said what do you mean ?
He said well, theres no sense in using a heavier saw that I cant see the blade as well and thats not balanced as well as the Maktia. He said the Maktia is a seeing thing and a comfortable feeling in his hand and arm.
I thought that said enough. I never would have asked if it wasnt for this thread.
Oh , he offered to give me the Dewalt . LOL. Im dead serious , thats exactly what he said ! But I didnt take it. Its a new saw too.
Tim Mooney
Hi WA,
I have a real problem with left saws, that's just me. I ride the saw on the stock and drop the waste on the right. It just makes sense to me.
The Mak has great vision to the blade without dust flying up in your face, and it just feels like a part of my arm. It is one hell of a solid saw and anyone here that complains about it probably bought what Home Depot sells, some ho version, and that isn't what I'm selling.
The one complaint I have with it is the depth adjustment that has been mentioned, and I liked that about the Bosch, but that wasn't enough reason to change.
I'm not sure what to tell you about your need for precision, as long as the arbor is true to the motor your Mil will be fine with a good blade. Carbide blades don't drift, so you only have to have your base close enough.
If you are all worried about cs finish perfectness, go buy yourself a Festo setup.
I suspect you worry too much.
You've got me hands down on experience with saws, so if you say the right blade Makita is the best saw made I'll take your word for it. If I buy a righty, the Mac will probably get the call. For me, my style of cut, and my personal experience, I have to side with the experience of Mike Smith though. I've yet to find the lefty PC's equal for most of my cuts. (Hows that for PC?)
Like you, I drop the waste on the right most of the time, but the left blade saw still works better for me. In my experience there is plenty of the shoe on both sides of the blade to hold the cut level all the way through once you have a feel for the balance and get your wrist locked in. In fact, the PC seems to float in a perfect state of balance with little or no help at all from the time I pick it up until I set it down.
I can't speak to a saw's durability with much authority. I handle my saws with a lot more care than most production builders. I don't operate with the fluid speed of most day in and day out saw users and I don't think I've dropped a saw in years, even when I'm in a hurry.
As to the guide system - Festo is nice (and expensive) but I think the EZ guide is probably a far better bang for the buck. The main thing about the system that intrigues me is the anti-chip base. It's one of those, "why didn't I think of that" kind of simple solutions that just makes sense.
I understand Dino has a left blade saw base in the works. I'll probably buy the base for the anti-chip on my PC when it comes out even if I don't use the guide with it. I'm pretty sure, if I buy the EZ guide, it's as close to a owning a CS as I'll ever come.
"I suspect you worry too much"
LOL - No doubt - that's why I stick to building on the computer when it comes to making a living these days. Hey, save a dope slap for me will ya? I'm gonna need one when this house is finished and I've got time to fully enjoy the experience. Just stubborn enough to insist that I'm still having fun with equity Vs. labor balancing out around $1.50/hr. Forget the CS - at this point it's tempting to hack my cabinets out with a machete and call 'em rustic.
Somebody ring the bell dangit - I'm getting killed in here! :-)>Kevin Halliburton And with that, the great emporer Oz gently floated away on a curtain of hot air, laughing at the unfortunate ignorance of little people beneath him. But under his breath he cursed that stupid little dog...
Like you, I drop the waste on the right most of the time, but the left blade saw still works better for me. In my experience there is plenty of the shoe on both sides of the blade to hold the cut level all the way through once you have a feel for the balance and get your wrist locked in. In fact, the PC seems to float in a perfect state of balance with little or no help at all from the time I pick it up until I set it down.
Hi GWA. looks like we're going some were after all. I was looking for an answer to the left VS right blade issue. I think with the right advice and directions we can have it both ways. So ,I will go over all the posts and draft a left blade resolution and re-test all saws again for that perfect state of balance.
Thanks
YCF Dino
I have the Porter Cable 7 1/4" and like it. If your a righty check out the left hand blade saws. I tend to use my bosch worm drive more since it's easier to see the cut line,especially on stair stringers. Don't forget the bosch saws,there just as good.
. "" I’m looking to buy a 7.25†blade-right sidewinder by the end of the month. "'
Are you righty or lefty?
YCF Dino
I'm a lefty. I've used a Makita forever. Since I mostly do trim now, the Makita is the trim saw beause it's well machined base rides great on a speed square or shooting boards. It's also great for cutting left hand stair skirts. I finally got a PC Saw Boss to cut right hand skirts. It's a cheesey POS, but it is nice to have another handed saw. Since I've been using big SCMSs, I haven't cut a skirtboard w/ a sidewinder.
I got a Milwaukee Tilt-Lok for framing, very nice. I don't understand why it's got that 45 cut-off on the base, though...I'm not delusional in thinking all my cuts are perfectly straight, the speed square helps me, that 45 cut-off makes that a bit squirrely.
...and, I've never had a problem with a Makita guard, but that's just in my experience of using them(maybe 25 years). Don't worry, we can fix that later!
My Mil is 18 years old. At one point I thought it would be nice to have a second sidewinder. I bought a Bosch and hated it. What a clunker. I gave it to my wife to put in a tag sale and bought a second milwaukee.
Well I've got a Milwaukee circular saw that I bought in 74. Wouldnt have any other.
I use the PC, a great saw. I would give anything to have my old Sawcat back though, they don't make them anymore...at least I don't think. It lasted a good 20 years and ergonomicly it couldn't be beat.
Well I own a PC, and it was a good saw right up until the first time I dropped it and the base bent. Given it's cast magnesium, it work hardened and really can't be made straight once twisted.
Now we have a few MKE's at work that are still going strong after 30??? plus years of service, and their bases are still pretty straight.
Anyhow, IMO like an old Timex watch, MKE tools a rugged, and take a beating, but generally lack the "cutting edge" stuff you find on tools fron Sears and the like.
WSJ
DeWalt 364
The awful thing is that beauty is mysterious as well as terrible. God and the devil are fighting there, and the battlefield is the heart of man.- Fyodor Dostoyevski
i picked up a factory reconditioned Left-handed PC with case today for $89..
i think the late model PC's are superior to the new model.. and will prove to be a lot more durable..
i now have two lefts and a right.. and i also have the new bosch direct connect, two old rockwell 315's.. a skill 8 1/4 wormdrive, a milwaulkee 10"..
two battery saws. a panasonic and a bosch..
the left handed PC beats them all
Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
..."the left handed PC beats them all"
I don't know about "all" but it sure beats the heck out of every other saw I've squeezed the trigger on over the years. With the wrench right there in the handle I can't see a significant advantage to the tooless blade change on the new model either. Of course, you have to put the wrench back where it belongs every time.
As a right hander, I am 100% convinced that, with the way I use my saw, the left blade design is safer for me too. The only serious saw injury I've had was stupidity, coupled with a hung blade guard on the side of the saw where I couldn't see it.Kevin Halliburton And with that, the great emporer Oz gently floated away on a curtain of hot air, laughing at the unfortunate ignorance of little people beneath him. But under his breath he cursed that stupid little dog...
Hey Mike,
I bought 5 of the old style PC saws for 65$ a piece about 2 months ago from home depot.3 left and 2 right with 4 cases.
I bought the 10.25 inch milwaukee a couple of weeks ago and I am dissappointed it needs a second mounting point in the back for the base and i can't get a true 45 degree cut because of flex issues but it still did a better job of cutting 4x4 posts on a 45 degree cut than the mill did that charged me 1.25 a ft. to cut and who let the cut wonder so much that I couldn't use 2/3 of the ones sent OUCH!!!!
ANDYSZ2I MAY DISAGREE WITH WHAT YOUR SAYING BUT I WILL DEFEND TO THE DEATH YOUR RIGHT TO SAY IT.
Remodeler/Punchout
i've got 2 743's and one 347 now... looks like i'll soon have a couple more
and yes.. that big milwaulkee is a bear... the gyro action almost takes it out of your had when you pull the triggerMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Man you aren't kidding about the initial startup with this saw it moves 3/4 of an inch every time no matter how hard I try and control it. I will not let anybody else on the crew use it because it is so unruly.I tried to make the same cut with the PC but the blade would bind almost immediately.I am still using the blade that came with the saw but I am wondering if a thinner blade will tame this beast a little?
ANDYSZ2I MAY DISAGREE WITH WHAT YOUR SAYING BUT I WILL DEFEND TO THE DEATH YOUR RIGHT TO SAY IT.
Remodeler/Punchout
we like that saw for when we need it.. when you need a 10" saw ... you need a 10" saw.. this last job we used it for cutting the ridge beam ( 8 x 18).. and the I'joists (2x4 too and bottom )
when we cut posts in the field .. in place. we clamp a jig to the post and then make our cut..
wether it's a level cut or a pyramid cut.. we use a jig.. cutting 4x4 or 6x6..
i used to joke about that saw.. wnated a "saw bearer" to carry it from cut to cut for meMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Mike, any experience with the Makita 10"? I was looking at one on Saturday for the first time. It seemed a little bit better built that the Milwaukee if you can believe that. I've heard that the table is flimsy on the Milwaukee. This true? Had any problems with your Mil?
nothing flimsy about the Millwaulkee...
it's a beast..
we've had it for almost 10 years..
if i was looking at a 10 " saw today.. i'd look at the BigFoot..
ask tim uhler about BigFoot..
or better yet. c'mon down and we'll take a ride to Quaker Lane Tool .. give one a test ride.. then do lunch... or mebbe early dinner..
how much money ya got ?
here's Pfn, david doud, luka , calvin ... and the Owner of Quaker Lane...Bill Barski
just hanging around, smokin 'n jokin
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Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Edited 10/11/2004 11:42 pm ET by Mike Smith
An interesting proposition.....
If we're going to the tool store before the grub, you better be a cheap date! If you want a little more than a Whopper, we might want to rearrange the itinerary. ;)
if it's after the election.. we can go out on pete's moneyMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
I would suggest a Dewalt wormdrive. I have had to many sidewiders and they never seem to have enough power.
I'm not talking about 20 year old stuff - I'm too young (60 next birthday).
I have a 5 year old one, and i'd buy a new Milwalkee sidewinder in a heartbeat. I change blades regularly (when needed) and the thing has never let me down. Conversley, I hated my pal's Makita.
I don't need a worm, but if I did, I would probably look for a Skill, used, or a Dewalt because the guys who use them tell me that they are light and good.
The one thing everyone here will tell you, like I'm saying too ......
You can buy the cheap stuff to start you off, and trade up later, or buy the best now and have it ready.
Why not rent a few of the saws and see what feels good to you?
Quality repairs for your home.
Aaron the Handyman
Vancouver, Canada
if I had to replace my rear pivot foot DeWalt ...
I'd get the same model. I love the ease of depth change ...
if I was getting a second ...
I'm looking at the left side blade PC.
and ... I'm always on the look out for an old style Milwaukee in good shape ...
JeffBuck Construction, llc Pittsburgh,PA
Artistry in Carpentry
I too like my rear pivot DeWalt with the big nob on the front...makes a great handle for ripping and love the adjustment...
also have the DeWalt sidewinder...I like the saw for framing, but not so much for doing smaller things...Had to replace the plastic shroud twice now..but still like it..
Bought the new Bosch sidewinder a year ago..it took over for my DeWalt untill it was stolen...just havent replaced it
One saw I can't live without is my little PC trim saw...5" blade I think...blade on the right side...works great for trimming and small applications...
One of the guys on my crew swears up and down by his Mil adjustable saw...was a pretty good saw for the price....while the other won't touch anything but his rice burner..er..Makita...having shoulder problems, the weight if this tool is hard to argue with....
long story short...as has been stated...maybe look to rent a couple of saws that your interested in and see what feels good in your hand...you'll find that once you do pick the one that is right for you...it will become YOUR saw...
Two circular saws for you.
First I will check the new Ryobi $69.00 13 amps 5000 rpm? quitter and smoother motor than most saws, double insulated, good balance,quick stopping blade (without a brake) dust port for vacuum hose (that needs work),and a laser that you don't like.
Second I will go for the new Porter Cable with electric brake and a better dust port.Among other benefits you get the toolless blade chance that you don't care.Good balance , ergonomics and controls.$149.00?
In both cases I will stick with your right blade choice If you're right handed.for safety reasons.
YCF Dino
I had a 8" ryobi some years ago during a brief delusional episode. Of the many things about it that pizzed me off, the one that first comes to my mind is that the bottom of the trigger switch was open. Now many switches are like this but only the Ryobi will pinch your second finger every single dam time you turn it on.
Ron
Hi Ron. That was funny.Think of it as a safety feature. (imagine the blade)
The guy is asking for our opinion as to what we think is good for him. He's not a pro and he likes the right blade sidewinders.
For $69.00 the new Ryobi is a good deal for a DIY.All other (pro-saws) Makita -Hitachi- Dewalt-Millwakee -Bosch and Porter Cable 're of similar value and quality with some better than others in some but not all features.
What makes the Porter Cable my top choice is the fact that they offer a good electric brake and a good dust port for vacuum hose.
About the other saws: Hitachi, a good all around saw semi-Pro to Pro.Makita offers a strong motor.Bosch is smoothe.Dewalt is a good all around Pro.And Milwaukee is the old dependable.
But is nothing like go to your tool store and play with it to see which one feels better in your hand.
YCF Dino
hey Dino--
help me out here, what does useing a right blade if you are right handed have to do with safety?
If the tool is in good shape -the guard works-and the blade is sharp --Why would you want to use a blade right when you have to look over the saw to see your line?
With that logic then if all things are equal then wouldn't a righty be better off with a blade left he can see without bending over the saw? Maybe i.m missing something but I don't follow. Mike
Hey Mike.
Porter Cable sells parts too.How old is your saw? (I have few extra bases for the new model).
About the right and left bladed saws. Do a search on ycf dino and you will see few posts and reasons why a right hand person should use a right bladed saw.
And why only in US we have this ..I got to see the line and the blade mentality when one simple offset line can do miracles in accuracy and safety.
And this is my last one about left and right bladed saws.
I'm just happy that all my guys after 25 years in the trade have all 10 digits.
let me know about the base.
YCF Dino
OK I did the search and I understand how an indicator line would solve all your problems except one---The poor bloke on the ground being burried by the guy on the roof with numbers. Do you think that he can accuaretly deduct one measurement if the fall off is on the right and another if the fall off is on the left?
I see your point but stand behind my opinion about that few accident occur because of the blade position but by other factors.
Someone has the monacore about argueing with a BT is like wrestling with a pig. So with that I still stand behind my PC left.
RE: Porter Cable sells parts too.How old is your saw? (I have few extra bases for the new model).
somebody else- Don't need parts for mine. Mike
Hi Mike. The big problem is that homeowners and new guys on the trade starting with warm drives and left bladed saws. They hold the wood with the left hand and they cut wood and hand the same time. Even if a pro can safely use a left bladed saw he should advice the novice users that a right bladed saw is much safer for him.
The question was what saw was good for him (boiler7904) and not what we like.
But I get your point about other potential accidents. Make it more clear for others too. From my experience with saws, if I have use left bladed saws I be without fingers after all the kickbacks and stock guards and just been lazy some times.
YCF Dino
i like the PC left side saw myself, use it everyday for ultra fine cuts in prefinished panels for kitchen cabinets
i really like the cast sole and i'm able to miter panels together flawlessly
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PC Model 325.
Just curious, what is your objection to the quick blade change?
I checked out the quick release at a show recntly and I have to say I was impressed.
The thing that makes it a tooless change is the way it threads and not the way it clamps the blade ---The retainer looks very similiar to the one on my 743.
If i ever had to change blades on my circ. as ofen as I do on my recip then I would consider it but until then I guess i better not lose my wrench. Mike
I havent counted , but it looks like PCs have the popular vote by a good margin.
Tim Mooney
i am right handed, there is only one saw that satisfies, skill 77, i have serveral others for special uses, but the 77s get used 99% of the time. I prefer a 77 over all of the junk table saws, they are safer and will out rip anything less than a unisaw. i only have a little over 30 years experience, so i am probably real stupid to all of you pups that know it all. My saws make me so much money i dont worry about a few extra bucks at purchase time.
I can see you are serious about your Skill. Im glad I have one . LOL.
I dont have that model though. Ive got an old 367 skill. Thats the old classic thats been around for years.
I just made the comment that more were mentioning PC saws than any other saw.
Are you saying that the model you have has more power ? What else ?
Tim Mooney
Edited 10/4/2004 10:33 am ET by Tim Mooney
the 367 was my first love, used one for a little over 20 years, wore it out, purchase price was 112.50, now they cost more than the 77, but the main reason i use the 77 is there is a much larger blade selection that is available. They have more power than all of the little table saws, and with a shooting board setup, or a rip fence they will out cut all of the wanabe table saws. Those little saws scare me, they don't have big enough tables to be safe.
I looked at a left handed makita a while back at slowes on the bargain table, the box said made in china, that was all i needed to see. if possible, i buy american.
Forgive my ignorance, what is a shooting board? A former co-worker told me he could rip exterior trim (corner boards, etc.) faster with a circular saw than a table saw but he never told me how. Is that what a shooting board does? Do you have a picture?
what is a shooting board?
Bonehead-
A shooting board is just a guide. clamp a board (shooting board) on the sheet of plywood you want to cut and have at it.
More often, a shooting board is used with a plane to get the angle desired.
he could rip exterior trim
Place the circular saw on the trim to be cut. Grip the front corner of the saw sole plate letting your index finger rest on the edge of the trim to be cut. Your index finger is the guide that keeps your cut uniform along the length of the trim cut.You get out of life what you put into it......minus taxes.
Marv
bone..
marv has the simplest version of a shooting board..
the next step up is to make one for YOUR saw from 1/4 plywood. luan is good for this..... you need about a 4" perfectly staright rip.. and another rip about 12"..
the length depends on your project.. most remodelers have 2 . a 4" and an 8'
glue and brad nail the 4" strip to the edge of the 12" strip.. flip it over and peen the brads.. or sand them off with a belt sander..
now flip it back and set YOUR saw against the 4" guide and carefully rip the excess off the 12" part .....
you now have a shooting board that is exactly the right size for YOUR saw with THAT blade on it.. keep it away from others so they won't screw it up by using THEIR saw on it..
the edge of the shooting board now becomes an exact rip or cutoff guide.. these are great for tapers, for cutting door bottoms , etc..
dino (YCFriend) had developed a patented guide that goes beyond shooting boards.. it also has a non-splinter feature... you can use it for 45 deg. bevel rips.. and you can put two sections together to make it longer.. it also has proprietary clamps to fix it to your work..
so.. there you are... rudimentary (marv's )..... homebuilt.. ( the described above) and state of the art (Dino's )Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
I have the Milwaukee Tilt-Lock with a brake. It's a nice saw and the brake lets you set up for the next cut without worrying about the spinning blade. I never use the tilt-lock. I had to file a few nibs off the base when I got it, but that took all of three minutes.
Billy
I have a older Bosch(no idea what year..must be early to mid 80s) that is relatively nice, depth adjustments are a bit of a nuisance but the saw has withstood tons of big pressure treated post cutting, plywood, cutting diamond plate sheets, helvea flooring, and alot of other things people don't often encounter. and makes nice cuts in plywood, 2x4s, etc. I had a cordless PC left hand 6inch blade(or maybe 6something inch.. not sure which they are) one for awhile and it was a great saw, just didn't use any of the other PC cordless stuff. If I was buying a saw new I'd definitely buy one of those PC left hand blade saws again.
-Ray
I use a PC left and right . I have a skil worm.
I like the saw boss too which is a PC. Its hard to beat the PCs in my opinion, but I dont saw every day . Dieselpigs post sounded like experience.
Tim Mooney
My vote for a good basic saw would be the Makita if you don't like the Porter Cable. It now has a 15 amp motor, the older ones were 13 amp. It has been a hard working no-frills saw for me. I guess one of mine is 20 years old, the other that I bought for $15 in case I needed parts is about 8 years old. However it only needed a cord so now they both are running fine. But you can't go wrong with any of the ones mentioned (except for that Ryobi...)
They are all loud. If you haven't used a professional circular saw before, you'll notice that there is no safety switch to press first. You grab the trigger and the blade starts, so be careful. And more power means that you need to be sure the blade guard is down before setting the saw back down.
Tell us what you pick,
Dusty and Lefty
I have not read the other 50 posts, so I may be repeating.
Suggest the PC. I like the new Bosch too, but the PC is lighter, and I prefer the cast base over plastic.
I have been using the Makita saw since 1986, and it has never failed me. I know its light,compact, and a little noisy, but it gets the job done, and doesn't do me in, by the end of the day.
Every one has a favorite,but sometimes its the skill of the user that makes the saw stand out.I am using a Bosch with a detachable cord and the framing hook, and it is becoming a constant companion.
greg in connecticut
Since you're already committed to buying an industrial rated saw and are aware of what qualities you'd like the next most important consideration is how it fits your hand. I like my PC blade right, magnesium framed saw that has a brake and dust pickup. But it might not feel right in your hand which will make all its virtues for naught. The Mil looks good too. Hold 'em before you buy 'em.
I am a west coast worm drive man.. the skill 77 is too heavy now--the skill Mag is ok, but i don't like the table. I was given a De Walt worm drive several years ago and have bought one since ( dropped the first one off of a roof.. ) The power is as good as a skill, they are lighter, they have the hook already on them ( so you don't drop them!!) and they are eargonomicaly better to use. Have fun!
Did you look at the latest Fine Homebuilding Tool Guide Special Issue ?? It has ratings on all kinds of tools