Replies

1. 
   MikeSmith | Mar 02, 2007 07:12pm | #1

   Hurd

   Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
2. 
   BMan | Mar 02, 2007 07:38pm | #2

   I don't think Hurd makes triple glazed windows anymore. Instead, look for a window with a higher performance rating. The better resistance to air infiltration will do much more towards your goal than another layer of glass or suspended film.

   Low-E films improve performance on south facing windows as well as east and west. Depending on your climate, you may want the film on the #2 surface rather than the #3 surface (#1 is the outside face of the outer pane, while #4 is the inside face of the inside pane).

   FYI- large expanses of windows on the west side are very difficult to control solar gain. 

   "Good design is good business"

                             Florence Schust Knoll (1917-)

1. 
   MikeSmith | Mar 02, 2007 07:44pm | #3

   since they no longer have a Rhode Island dealer, i had lost touch with Hurd.. i really liked their windows.. and wouldn't hesitate to use them again.. but not unless i can buy them thru my regular distribution system

    

   yesterday , i looked them up  on line.. and they do, in fact, still offer a triple glazed windowMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore

3. 
   tb1472000 | Mar 02, 2007 08:48pm | #4

   Look at http://www.thermotechfiberglass.com/.  

1. 
   tuolumne | Mar 02, 2007 09:21pm | #5

   I only have one gable end west window at the second floor, and a small window at the first floor, so western sun will be manageable in the summer.  If triple panes are hard to find, who makes a window with great thermal performance?  This is new construction in Vermont.  Wood trim is desired.

1. 
   BMan | Mar 02, 2007 09:57pm | #6

   I would go Marvin, Hurd, Pella, in that order. It would depend on the application, as some make a nice double hung, but their slider is not as good as others.

   Be careful using Hurd (or any manufacturer) sliding doors in areas with greater wind exposure.

   I am not a fan of vinyl. Heard too many bad stories about Peachtree.

   Lowen looks nice, although I have never used them.

    "Good design is good business"<!----><!----><!---->

                             <!----><!----><!---->Florence<!----><!----> Schust Knoll (1917-)<!----><!---->

2. 
   peteshlagor | Mar 05, 2007 12:08am | #15

   My experience with triple pane windows was miserable.

   The extra weight from the third pane caused the casement joints to fail and they either broke their seal or rotted the bottome frame.

   I would use a double pane with a thin solar uv film in betwixt, thuse giving the same effect as 3.

    

4. 
   rasher | Mar 03, 2007 01:50am | #7

   Uh... nobody?

5. 
   Hudson Valley Carpenter | Mar 03, 2007 07:38am | #8

   http://www.milgard.com

    

6. 
   tatekata | Mar 03, 2007 02:20pm | #9

   Loewen Windows.  They make triple glazed in many of their windows/doors.  Best wood windows in North America if you don't mind paying and waiting for them.  Douglas Fir wins against pine anyday as far as I'm concerned.  I don't even think any other manufacturers are even close to Loewen in quality anymore.

    

   SS

7. 
   talkingdog | Mar 03, 2007 06:27pm | #10

   Try doing a ratings search on http://www.nfrc.org/getratings.aspx
   You will want to get something rated under U-30. Fiberglass is the
   champ for cold climates.

   Usually in these conversations Marvin Integrity gets mentioned
   sooner or later. Fiberglass outside, wood inside, inexpensive,
   readily available, decent reputation.

8. 
   oberon476 | Mar 04, 2007 05:13pm | #11

   There are many companies that offer triple pane options - available in wood, vinyl, fiberglass. 

   Curious though why you want uncoated triple pane on southern exposure and LowE on other exposures?

9. 
   acornw | Mar 04, 2007 06:24pm | #12

   You did say "good" windows. Operating from the cynical view that most American made windows have/are suffering thru Wal-Martization, and therefore have more people working long hours making them cheaper and rewriting the warranties than they do making them better, there is not much to recommend.

   Zeluck makes one of the finest windows in the US, Loewen is not too far behind (Canadian). If you look at truly developed countries in Europe, you will see that the windows are remarkably different from the US standards. Heavy tropical timbers, fantastic closure hardware (all adjustable, of course), real weatherseals that work, and engineered to be better, not cheaper. These are not throw-away windows. Look for Tilt -turn hardware along with your triple glazing. The tripled stuff is standard in the more Northern European countries.

   We have the small shop tech to build the tilt turn windows, but are not marketing as yet (if ever). Once the Big Boys start making these in numbers, they too, will cheapen quickly - but it may take 10 years or more for that to happen.

   When you see the prices of good tilt turns, you too will tilt and turn, but you have to realize it is a completely different product, with a whole different mindset behind it that the American counterpart.

   Dave S

   http://www.acornwoodworks.com

1. 
   MikeSmith | Mar 04, 2007 07:41pm | #13

   yeah, yeah, yeah..... european windows are better.. canadian windows are better

   not for me.. i get a call from one of my customers from 20 years ago and they  need a new sash.. for whatever reason.. i can get it

   i've seen a lot of euro windows... long delivery chain...  no support form local distributors..

    and all of a sudden you're twisting in the wind..

    if you can't get service, you're SOLMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore

2. 
   Billy | Mar 04, 2007 09:01pm | #14

   There are a lot of things I like about European windows -- the great weatherstripping and the tilt-turn sash are two of them.  Something that I rarely hear mentioned is the fact that most of them are made from anodized aluminum, even in historic buildings.  Stand next to one and feel the cold conducted in straight from the outside.  Maybe the low air leakage offsets the bad thermal characteristics, but I don't like this apsect of many European windows.  Every hotel I have ever stayed in over there has these windows, unless they've managed to keep the original windows.  I see the same thing in homes and other buildings in Europe.

   Billy

    

10. 
    ChicagoMike | Mar 05, 2007 05:09am | #16

    Marvin will make a triple pane window in most any style. They also make tilt turn windows using the German made hardware. Triple pane windows are not usually worth the money though. They are almost standard in Europe because of the high cost of heating your home there. The cost of trip pane vs. the cost of fuel savings at this point in the US is not economically feasible.

11. 
    arcticcat | Mar 05, 2007 05:24am | #17

    Marvin will make triple pane wdws, but they are $$$$, if thats an issue.  I toured the plant a few weeks ago, and the rep we talked to said the payoff time on double glazed panes is like six years over single pane glass.  The payoff time on triple glazing was like forty years, IIRC.

    I do have a houseful of Andersen triple pane casements and I do think the extra weight is harder on the hardware than regular double glazing.  Have more than a few sashes with broken/damaged hardware, which isn't typical of Andersen's in my experience.

    Mike

1. 
   tuolumne | Mar 05, 2007 03:41pm | #18

   Thanks for all the information thus far.  We would be looking at casement windows, so bear this in mind.  I'm not convinced triple pane is worth the expense. 

1. 
   oberon476 | Mar 07, 2007 04:18am | #19

   The advantage of triple versus dual pane windows really depends a lot on specific requirements. 

   <!----><!----> <!---->

   First, a dual pane window with a LowE2 coating and argon gas will outperform – energy considerations – a triple pane window made with clear glass – while that extra lite in a triple pane certainly can improve the overall energy performance of the unit, the biggest advantage of a triple pane is that the extra glass layer allows the manufacturer to coat two different surfaces with a LowE2 coating.  That extra LowE makes for a very real energy advantage.

   <!----> <!---->

   As a general rule, triple panes come in two varieties – one version has a relatively narrow space between the lites – kind of like taking a wide dual pane and dropping another lite between the first two.

   <!----> <!---->

   Then there is the triple pane version with a wider spacing between the lites - kind of like taking two "standard" dual panes and removing a lite from one and slapping the remaining parts together. 

   <!----> <!---->

   Both work, but there are some differences worth considering.

   <!----> <!---->

   The narrow airspace version works best when two surfaces are LowE2 coated and krypton gas is used between the lites.  Krypton gas performs at its energy-saving best in a narrow space of about 1/4" or so...which happens to be the typical space between the lites in a narrow triple pane. 

   <!----> <!---->

   In this configuration it is possible to achieve a U value as good as .1 - although that is certainly something of an ideal - on the window.  Still, this configuration is very energy efficient and works really well...the downside is that this version can be quite expensive.

   <!----> <!---->

   The wider triple pane version would generally have an airspace of about 7/16" between each lite plus or minus a little.  Again, the advantage is in the LowE2 coating on two separate lites.  In this case, argon gas would be the most cost effective fill – rather than krypton – because argon is cheap and plentiful and at the 7/16" spacing is almost as good as krypton in performance numbers – not quite as good – but the slight insulating advantage of krypton in this configuration doesn't offset the additional cost of krypton.

   <!----> <!---->

   The biggest disadvantage of the wider triple pane is the physical size of the IGU – or more precisely the width of the glass package.   

   <!----> <!---->

   While manufacturers who use this version build their sash to accommodate the IGU width, not all companies can or will do so, so not all companies offer a triple pane package.  The wider version of the triple pane (argon fill) may be a bit lower than the narrower version (with krypton fill) at about a U value of about .11 to .12 or so – still really good numbers in any case. 

   <!----> <!---->

   But, in general, the wider version triple pane will outperform the narrower version if both use argon or even air infill between the lites (rather than krypton) – as mentioned earlier, it’s the “bells and whistles” that make the triple pane really perform. 

   <!----> <!---->

   Now as a comparison with triple pane, a dual pane with LowE2 and argon is capable of achieving about a U- .16 to .18 or so.  Again understanding that these are all theoretically “possible” values and while they are good for comparison, you need to compare the performance numbers of actual windows from actual companies to get the best possible results. 

   Edited 3/6/2007 8:20 pm ET by Oberon

1. 
   tuolumne | Mar 07, 2007 04:53pm | #20

   Thanks for a very educating response.

1. 
   oberon476 | Mar 09, 2007 04:03pm | #21

   you are welcome - I hope it helps