Just curious if anybody has any experience using cultured stone to either face, or re-face interior/exterior surfaces?
I think the stuff looks great, but I’m curious to learn more about it.
Any feedback?
Justin Fink – FHB Editorial
Your Friendly Neighborhood Moderator
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I have a house with plaster walls and ceilings. We had a cronic problem with mildew in the bathroom ceilings, cracks, etc. All the things associated with plaster. We bead boarded the walls and put cultured marble on the ceilings. Looks awesome. The marble was glued with adhesive and screwed using stainless hardware. Butt seems were covered with the associated ogee trim made of the culture marble. Bath stays clean and no problems with mildew. Stuff is heavy as all get out. A combination of hot glue for immediate sticking power and a good construction adhesive for long term is all we used for the trim pieces.
Semper Fi
Sorry Justin, I had my head up my arse..... Some how I was thinking of cultured marble and not the stone.
Semper Fi
Did 4' high band across front of 30' carriage house. Came out great. Was easy to work with after I got the mortor consistency right. Takes some arms to squeeze those grout bags....
I'll try to grab a pic if interested.
sure, if you can scare up a picture I'd love to see it.Justin Fink - FHB Editorial
Your Friendly Neighborhood Moderator
Justin,I built a shop in my backyard and decided to get creative with the entrance. I had never done anything other than a little tile work, but the learning curve wasn't too bad. Took me a loooong weekend. One day for the scratch coat and one to install the stone. I like the ledgestone as no grout is required. Pay no attention to that finger in the corner of the photo.
Pic quality isnt the best. But here is an external application.
2x6 - osb - house wrap - diamond mesh
Scratch coat applied over mesh, stone applied top down to avoid dripping mortor
1/2" grout joints
mesh + scratch coat 2 - 3 hours
layout of stone 5 - 6 hours
application of stone 5 - 6 hours
grouting 1 - 2 hours
Yep, lick em and stick em, lots of different types, sizes and shapes. Split face comes with corners. Have installed alot of it. What is your specfic question and maybe I can give you more info. Light enough that you can in some applications start at top and work down, keeps the stone cleaner.
Danusan, how much does a typical sq ft of this get installed for? I know it can range quite a bit but just give me an idea of a typical installation.
A guy mentioned 12 per sq ft and I'm wondering if he's typical.
blue
My guy charges $22/sf, which includes all prep and materials. Complete job.
800 sf (5 corners and curves)...$4k material (circa 1999/2000)...5 days...1 worker (me)So that makes this project one of my few significant $$$ savers. $4k out of pocket and 5 days, versus $17,600 at his rates. Regular stone work was going for $15/sf then, so even at that it worked out well.
Blue, $12-15.00 per sq. first floor no staging, staging $15-20.00.
Pay a little extra for chimneys, columns and radius work.
Last time I bought a box of great lakes split face price was about $90.00 per box.
You can move pretty fast on straight walls, details slow the process down, (ie: cutting stone) and fitting, once you cut it all you see is concrete as color isn't all the way thru. So you have to be selective on choosing pieces so grout will cover these areas.
Usually picking stone that is thin on one edge.
Dan,
Do you work with cultured stone often?Justin Fink - FHB Editorial
Your Friendly Neighborhood Moderator
2-3 times a year, why you ask pray tell
<<2-3 times a year, why you ask pray tell>>
Because I'm looking for a knowledgeable author to tell our readers all about cultured stone...think you are that guy?Justin Fink - FHB Editorial
Your Friendly Neighborhood Moderator
I did about 800 sf, including this fireplace. Love the product, but only from some mfg.
View Image
Cloud, that is awesome! Is that your design? We did a neighborhood sign in cultured stone. Maybe it was the manufacturer but we had to purchase more than we needed because the stone came in different hieghts and in staggering the stones had to really pick through to get an even appearance, otherwise there would have been larger gaps than wanted in the grout lines. One thing I do love about the product was we didn't have to grout. Butter the back, stick and go to the next piece.
Semper Fi
Thanks. Yes, I designed and installed that. Owens Corning brand. Swear by that compared to the others. Also back butter, and added a bit of acrylic base coat to the mud. Gave it incredible stick. Like you chose the no-group product. This brand was perfectly molded and a great fit. What surprised me the most is the number of masons who, in person, initially thought it was real stone.
How did you go about breaking them as far as width? We tried a couple of ways and decided to go with scoring with a saw then using a chisel. Seemed to work much better than using a chisel only which never seemed to break where we wanted it too. Everyone that saw our sign though it too was real.
This brand was perfectly molded and a great fit
Did the Owens brand of stone have consistant thicknesses? Or was it random in thickness?
Semper Fi
I used a diamond blade on my circular saw. (Outside) Just freehand cuts. Dusty, but easy and clean. If any cut edges happened to show, I'd smear a small bit of mortar over it to hide the vermiculite visible in the section.The thicknesses varied, but just by the amount appropriate for the design. I never had to adjust it or adjust to it.
To be honest, I'm asking because I want to do an article on this stuff. I'm looking for contractors/builders/masons who have experience with the product, have something intelligent to say to our readers about it (ie: tips or know-how beyond the directions provided by the manufacturer), and is interested in working with me on an article for the magazine.
Any interested parties? Who has upcoming jobs?Justin Fink - FHB Editorial
Your Friendly Neighborhood Moderator
The most I can offer, beyond whatever I wrote here, is pix of the fireplaces. Others have much more experience. Beyond the one installation, I spec it on designs, but don't install. If pix are useful, yell and I'll get some with better lighting or open the doors for you to get your own.
I appreciate the honesty Cloud - I may just call upon you for those pics later.
If you spec it frequently, do you know of a Mason in your area that would be a good candidate for such an article? It takes the right kind of guy to be an author, so we are looking for passionate craftsmen, but you already know that I'm sure.Justin Fink - FHB Editorial
Your Friendly Neighborhood Moderator
I dont have any jobs comong up as of this point, I am aquaitance with
anouther installer who works for the company that makes a brand
that one of the big box sells ,hell he is the manufactors brother.email me
if I can be of help. Dw
Justin - I see a lot of it around here - some can look pretty good - the ledge stone often comes the closest to real. I have mason friends that do both real stone and cultured, and they love the stuff. But none of it looks good up close imho.
Also - we live in the land of real limestone houses, and any stone that isn't that blue/gray color immediately sticks out as fake. I've yet to see cultured stone that comes close enough to our local limestone.
I looked into the companies that cut real stones into veneer but the materials price was astronomical.
Treat every person you meet like you will know them the rest of your life - you just might!
Do you get the feeling that most people are using the Owens Corning brand? Cultered Stone?
http://www.culturedstone.com
Justin Fink - FHB Editorial
Your Friendly Neighborhood Moderator
Not here - we have a cultured stone plant just across the line in Pennsylvania - L & S stone - I think they make El Dorado. They are building a new plant even closer in Hagerstown, MD.
Treat every person you meet like you will know them the rest of your life - you just might!
I am weighing doing my project with cultured or NTV (natural thin veneer) The ntv is from from this company; http://www.buechelstone.com/Homeowner/ntv.asp
They even have corners in ntv, just like the cultured stuff.
I have a 40' x 4' exposed concrete foundation wall (and some small sections on the adjoining walls) and the 4 CMU porch pillars (see images on the blog).
There will be a short retaining wall 3' h x ~30' l that will have one of the porch piers "in" it. If I use NTV the wall and pier will look more natural (IMO)
Funny thing is that the regular 4-5" thick retaining wall blocks from real stone will cost less than the concrete retaining wall blocks I was looking at. Granted, the concrete blocks were not on the low end of style options, but I thought that was interesting; however, I digress, you are asking about cultured stone.
I have not priced the cultured yet, but I will probably do so this coming week.
http://jhausch.blogspot.comAdventures in Home BuildingAn online journal covering the preparation and construction of our new home.
Has anybody heard of DuPont Stone? I have some prospective clients specing it, and I haven't been able to find it.Okay, I haven't tried that hard<G>I work around a lot of cultured stone, both inside and out...some is amazingly realistic.Justin, have you talked to John Caroll? "I am the master of low expectations." Georgie Boy, aboard Air Force One, June 4, 2003
DuPont stone? I tried to find it, but not that hard.
Are you sure it is not a product line within a manufacturer?
I like the look of some of the Eldorado Stone products.
Have you asked them about exactly what they are talking about.Dupont does make a "cultured" stone product.But it is for counter tops. Zodiac. It is a quartz composite.Also they could have easily gotten DuPont confused with OC.
And which pray tell are those mfg? I may be in the market for some soon.
Owens Corning. Looked at El Dorado and Coronado, and was unimpressed (depressed?) by the lack of detail and variety within each family of product. In the 800 sf, I didn't notice two pieces of the O-C Cultured Stone that had the same pattern, and I was trying to spot it.
Can it be used for exterior applications also?
Yes, I'm fairly certain I saw references to that in the O-C info and elsewhere. But my app was interior and I don't have personal experience with exterior use of that product. Were it to come up on a design, I'd research it before I speced it, just to be sure.
Can it be used for exterior applications also?
They use it externally around here all the time. Neighborhood enterances, walls, signs as we did and outside facades of houses. Everthing I have seen so far as far as the cultured stone are installed on block. I am not sure what else you can install the stone on.
Semper Fi
I want to face my foundation with it, which is a combination of block and poured conc. I'll do my research on it before purchasing, I imagine the exterior specificities have to do with mortar admixtures and the like.
The Mortar we used was already mixed and in a bag from Lowes. The job wasn't that big. Just mixed water and went with it. You may want to add an acrylic base as cloud mentioned, we didn't and it still sticks very good. I would do a skim coat on the block before you install the block.
Semper Fi
one of the uses here is to make {fake chimneys}
out of it using metal studs,cement backer board,
metal lath. I have made and installed them esp.
on double wides and manufactored homes where
they want to hide the metal chimneys that usally stick
way to far out of the roof. I dont recomind using
stackstone patterns in exterior applications where you
have freeze thaw cycles like we have here in the Blueridge
mountains though as I have seen at least 6 examples of
the stackstone popping off the walls above doorways, the Hospital
where my wife works has three stories ,all done in stackstone
they have had to install cages above all the entrances to catch
the stufff from falling on peoples noggins.That is where i first started
noticing it malls, storefronts and my neighbors garage -lawsuits
waiting to happen.It seems that water gets behind the stone and
freezes because of no mortar joints between the stone.
I can see the freezing being a problem especially if you don't grout or mortar the joints........Where we live we don't have that issue. Luckily.
Semper Fi
Does the grout waterproof the entire application or does it need periodic silicone treatment?
blue
Does the grout waterproof the entire application
Actually, you're supposed to have an impervious layer under the stone, jsut like for stucco. The grout is like a mortar joint, and needs to "breathe" since any moiture change must come "out" since it cannot be allowed "in."Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
no ,the grout does not waterproof the stone,
think of stackstone like this> why do you
put a drip edge under the first course of shingles.
imagine what the water does when it rains on
the artificial stackstone and finds a pin hole between
the stone and scratch coat then freezes that is what is
happening to a LOT of exterior artifitual stackstone jobs
in varying degrees, I have started to pay attention to.
different manufactures go with diff. sealers I have had
good luck with Frogskin brand and another sealer I think
that Euclid chemical makes that both weatherproofs,the stone
and deepens the colors some what. A natural stackstone wall
made with the real stone is one of the most longlived and durable
structures ever made- not maintenance free but almost.
Can it be used for exterior applications also?
Sure can. The actual material is lightweight concrete using a rather fine aggregate. Using acrylic-modified to butter the stone on is probably a good idea. You build the sub-surface just like you would for stucco, and it's all good.
Now, outside, it can be a good idea to work top-down, not bottom up. This looks peculiar in progress, but can be very worth while. The color on the cultured stone can be very thin, if you slop any mortar on it, and do not immediately clean it up, you can get a "ding" that shows the raw interior of l/w concrete. Build from the top down, and it's less of a problem.
Just like an inside job, do the corners first, and work into the field. Lay out your material first, and sort for pattern/color first. This is especially true when you mix-n-match colors & textures & types--which I thoroughly recommend. Especially with any of the rounded stone patterns, using three sizes gives a thoroughly 'realistic' look (and can save some time with that grout bag <g>).Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
just finished putting up 2K sq.ft for the state of Va.
on some of their state park cabins interior and ext.
also just about to complete a chimney and int. backwall
with stone from 3 differant jobs/manufactors ,just left overs
I had accumillated till I had enough to sell to a customer
at a discounted rate, heck its allready been paid for once,
and if I must say with all the differant shapes and diff. earth
tones this is one of the most relistic looking jobs I have ever
done. I lay real rock and veneer also, but the arcetictual stone
is so much faster and cheaper that is where most of my buisness
is coming from.
Thanks for bringing this topic up.
I'd like to install some cultured stone on the lower portion of my house. I have 4' of poured wall exposed all around. The trick is that I want to insulte the concrete somehow. Exterior insulation is preferred to keep the thermal mass inside. Is this possible to do? Anyone have any details?
Tom
Douglasville, GA
What I have found, in observing completed jobs, and in having some done for me by a sub, is that it pays to have a skilled mason, someone used to working with irregular field stone, do the work.
There is an artistry involved in getting the pattern and play of stone sizes and joints done so that the result is pleasing. A mason who has spent a lot of time doing this with field stone has this talent, while the guy just trying to do it once for the first time may not.
Justin,
I have used Cultured Stone brand synthetic stone on a few projects. There was an article before your tenure I think. Is your question professional (editorial) or professional (weekend trowel wielding)?
Main thing I can say is that these look-alike products enable even us non-cement heads to create realistic looking facades - interior and exterior - without the learning curve of traditional stonework.
Of course, there are a lot of details that you can 'cheat' on with synthetic stone that are a dead give-away. Like flashing a center fireplace chimney box on a roof. We install step flashings against the wooden box housing the metal stack and then cover them with building paper. Expanded mesh or backerboard goes over the paper and then the synstone. It looks weird to pureists - no mortar joint laced flashings. It looks like the mason forgot something.
And those unsupported (unarched) straight runs of synstone over the recessed entry ways on the front of a house downright defy logic.
But in the hands of an able designer and realisticlly minded installer - these stonework conventions can be mimiced (second set of decorative flashings or an arch or syn-beam to support the visual load above openings.
MG
Hi Mike,
Glad to see you on the forum. My question was professionally-oriented (speaking as an editor) - I'd love to do an article on this material.
You make some great points about the stone veneers...I suppose it's not just about making the product look realistic, but the application needs to be convincing as well. Very good point.Justin Fink - FHB Editorial
Your Friendly Neighborhood Moderator
that you can 'cheat' on with synthetic stone that are a dead give-away. Like flashing a center fireplace chimney
I hate seeing that. Luckily most of the roofing people I've worked with were like me, and wanted to properly flash the veneer, even when it was not needed, per se.
Most of "us" just seem to not be able to "stand" the flashing not looking right (or, at least, those of "us" who know what flashing looks like at all <sad grin>).
My personal habit is to detail cultured stone exactly like "natural" stone. That includes things like planning for expansion joints, changes in materials, window/door jambs, etc. Ok, it can be a bit extra work, it can be gilding lillies, but, it "looks" right--which can be priceless.
My only real "gripe" is that none of the manufacturers make c/s with standard j-box cut-outs, or "medallions" for mounting things like exterior light fixtures on walls. But, maybe I just hate seeing some clumsy ('cause we all forgot to think about it) mounting for door bells or exterior duplex outlets, or hose bibs and the like . . . Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
This is from a web page of details for cultured stone application.
One of the telltale details, when looking at a good veneer-stone installation, is down where the cladding meets grade. Done right, you need to keep the bottom edge detail above finished grade, and that gap will show, unless one uses landscape features to hide it.
Justin, your upcoming article should address the various clever ways to do this.
View Image
Owens Corning has these. Have you seen or used them?
View Image
Stone sizes:
Standard Light Fixture Stone, 8" x 10" x 1¾"
Large Light Fixture Stone, 9½" x 15" x 1¾"
Single Receptacle Stone, 6" x 8" x 1 ¾"
Double Receptacle Stone, 8" x 8" x 1 ¾"
2 colors available
over the yrs there have been some good threads on this subject with more fine pictures for your researchit is a widely used commodity these days with some executions much better than othersCloud's arch etc to be lauded
Have you seen or used them?
Clearly had not used--neither seen, either (was not in the last batch of detail updates--teach me to not look at the catalog too, and not just the cad details).
I still think a stock stone pattern fitted for a typical j-box would be slick. Or, at least, saving having a person cut one in with an angle grinder. Or, as was my most recent habit, hacking out rigid foam in the shape of the box (or mud ring) and fitting the stone work around that.
Those do look good, if possibly a tad ornate for a river-rock sort of install.
Well, I needed (honest) to browse the Cultured Stone site any way <g>.Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
I didn't read every post but scanning through I saw a lot on mention of Owens Corning. Another mfg is Heritage and it's about 1.50 a sq foot cheaper. I think it looks just as good... Some might scoff on selecting a product based on price, but all this stuff is expensive. This point really hit home when I found that it would cost about $1500 to fill a void left by a garage door to be closed up...
Question: I have some houses to do with 1/2 high craftsman style columns in the front. Attached is a pic of the plan. They are load bearing. The bottom is stone (look) and the top is a square tapered column. I'm trying to figure out how to construct them.
The top part of the column is to be made of Azek built in a local factory using a technique called V-fold miter and will be supplied and installed by my siding guy. The Azek is non-structural so a PT 4x4 will be installed in the center. Obviously the bottom will be covered with cultured stone. This part must be load bearing too. Getting a brick layer to come over and lay 12 or so block would not be feasible, so my thought was to build a box out of PT plywood and cover this with the cultured stone. The stone guy agreed. Further my thought was to have the center load bearing 4x4 go all the way up the center of the column - from the porch floor, up to the porch beam. This would have to be installed at the same time that the column is installed, since the columns come in one (hollow) piece. Then the PT box could be assembled around the bottom part of the 4x4 and covered with stone.
Here is the rub... The cap for the cultured stone. Not sure if you know it, but cultured stone is not suitable for horizontal surface covering. Stone guy has (real stone) cap blocks, which would work fine. I think they are roughly 1.25" thick and comes in a few sizes. Only problem is that if there is to be a 4x4 up the middle, this isn't gonna really work with a solid cap block....
The cultured stone I have selected is a dry stack look - which is pretty much like the picture.
Of course, the stone guy wanted to go first, and the siding guy wants to go first...
Edit - thinking about it some more, I think I'm just gonna have to bite the bullet and get a mason to lay block for the bottom half the the columns, and cap with the natural stone.
Edited 9/30/2006 12:34 pm ET by Matt
Have you checked with the cultured stone people.I think that they make caps for horizontal applications.
Why not picture frame the caps and let the column slide down over the stone
>>Why not picture frame the caps and let the column slide down over the stone<<
Well - if I understand you, that was kind of what I was after... What would the picture frame material be made out of? When you say >> slide down over the stone << do you mean slide down on top of the stone?
Attached is a sketch of what I had in mind, although if I can't get the stone guy to agree... Part of it is just this thing about each sub wanting to go first... And on the other part of the house the siding guy has to go first to create the returns for the stone guy to install up to...
Edited 10/1/2006 8:44 am ET by Matt
Hey Matt,I'm looking at a similar situation. It'll be an allowance item, so I've got other things to deal with first, but, who's your Heritage supplier? "I am the master of low expectations." Georgie Boy, aboard Air Force One, June 4, 2003
Brandco off of Westgate rd by the airport. They sell/install some natural stone too.
Brandco Inc6317 J Richard DrRaleigh, NC 27617<!---->(919) 787-8453<!---->
Edited 10/1/2006 11:41 am ET by Matt
Let your 4x4 carry the load from footer to top. Build your box out for base, take the stone and you now have 4 pieces with miter corners 45deg. they will get grouted in at top of base 3/8" joint. Determine what acutual height from stone cap and captial will be cut your hollow column to correspond. Assuming that their is a base ring and top ring for column, this should give you a little fudge factor to work with so column does not have to be exact. And will allow you to hold up out of your way to set the caps.
Material can be any thing your heart desires, limestone, precast stone caps from manufactuer, aszek, cedar, etc. Put a slight pitch on caps to shed water, and allow for overhang on stone column. To much pitch and your collar is going to look funny,when it hits caps. Might have to make a flat spot on caps so collar fits nice, this however will also determine choice of cap material, if you go that direction.
Limestone can be milled with flat and then pitch, same with wood, precast will not allow this as so as you cut it you exposed cement as color does not run all the way thru.
Matt, these are some pictures of a house I just finished. All the stonework is real but all the trim is Azek. We used a copper coping or water table to transition to the stone. The tapered columns are hollow with a 4x4 or 4x6 LVL post inside.
Edited 10/1/2006 1:52 pm ET by woodguy99
Edited 10/1/2006 1:52 pm ET by woodguy99
That's a great looking house woodguy.Tom
Douglasville, GA
great house - did you use LVL posts to resist twisting? or for added strength? enlighten me...Justin Fink - FHB Editorial
Your Friendly Neighborhood Moderator
Both--they were spec'd as 6x6's, but at the framing stage the design for the columns hadn't been nailed down yet so we asked the engineer if we could use LVL 4x4's instead. That way if the decision had been a 6" square column we would have been all set.
LVL's are just as great for posts as they are for beams. Straight, strong and easy to work with.
I did the block thing for mine (see blog).
I didn't see your pic, but our plan is stone below and tapered wood above, too.
The original plan was stone up to the bottom of the porch, then all wood above, but it has changed to take the stone up to the taper. The last 4 courses of block have not been placed yet. We'll cap the stone part with limesone cap blocks, 2' sq is about $120 each.
http://jhausch.blogspot.comAdventures in Home BuildingAn online journal covering the preparation and construction of our new home.
You may be on to a million $ idea - keystones, medallions and other specialty stones that 'match' the type of synstone types. Kind of like an accessory line. mg
They already offer keystones and some other accessories...
They already offer keystones and some other accessories
Not to put words in his mouth, but I'm thinking he meant a line of those accessories already pierced for electrical boxes or mud rings.
The new c/s outfit out east of here "does" a stock stone with a 3" hole in it, but said hole does not fit a j-box for nothing without some careful whittling.Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
Gotcha...that woulda been useful once upon a time.
that woulda been useful once upon a time.
Yeah, would, wouldn't it?
Kind of hard to find "electricfication" details for old, traditional stone buildings built before electricity. Which can make detailing such modern conveniences a bit of a pain (or haphazard, or cluttered, or what have you).
Which then has further consequences. Those WP exterior duplex outlets now require "in use" covers. That "wants" to have a bit more "flat space" around the box (and almost requires vertical, not horizontal mounting, too). So, does one allow for a larger "island" of mortar/grout in the stone wainscoat, or does one carve on a suitably-sized hunk of stone, cultured or not?
Decisions, decisions; the meat of why we are (supposed to be) paid "bucks" (large, small, or otherwise).Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
Are you familar with these.http://www.aifittings.com/whnew74.htmYou can get a paintable cover for them also so you can blend it into the stone.
Are you familar with these
Yeah, and I like them--getting them detailed, and then the contractor to actually install them . . . <sigh>
The recess instalation is nice, too--just occasionally tougher to achieve with big, rounded, "river" rock (which is yet another reason to do some mix-n-match, same as a mason would).
Me, I just hate hearing from the poor electrician, who has jsut opened the box for the sconces or whatever, and has no way to hang the fixture.
Hmm, now that in-use covers are (mostly) required, I wonder how you install them in a soffit for holiday lights . . . Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
You may be on to a million $ idea
If it's like the rest, it's already patented in somebody else's name <sigh>
To me, it's just a logical outgrowth of the production process (i.e., to use the patent law term-of-art, "from the prior art"). Just take the end of the run or the beginning, and have a stock knock-out for the forms.
Now, a more "magic bullet" would be 1/2" to 1" thick "flats" for lining recesses (like a pocket for a semi-recessed light fixture, or more so for fake/semi-fake log bins on fireplace breasts. But that may just be from too long standing at the tub saw . . . Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
Mike, I found a lot of specialty parts at the Owens Corning website.
For example, thicker stones, rectangular in shape, and keystones, for doing window casings. Plus, the detailed flats, with cutouts, that I referred to in my earlier post for mounting lights and doing power receptacles.
Not an expert by any means but I had a go at this after we had and addition put on. We have a fieldstone foundation and given the way we built the extension we didn't think anything else would look right other than facing it with some type of stone. Wasn't sure I could do it with real stone at the time. Figured I'd have to build some type of supportive shelf or take the stone all the way to the footing (which was about 8 feet down on that side, $$$) so I figured I'd have a go with the cultured stuff.
I had some issues finding out what should be used for an underlayment based on the surface I was putting it on (so your article would be great for someone like me) plywood in my case. Still not sure I've got it right. If I remember correctly I left the Tyvek, then some builders felt (30 lb I think), wire mess, then the stone. I also had issues trying to get a mix of mortar (colorwise) that would match the old existing mortar (don't know enough about how the different cement types dry). I tried a number of variations (Type I, Type II, Mortar mix) along with some colorings (never did get it just right). Consequently it has a few mortar colors and I'd like to go back with a thin coat to cover everything but it hasn't been high enough on the priority list. I'll take a few more pictures but I really don't like showing the parts that came out so so ;-)
I also wasn't sure how the cultured stone would hold up to freezing and thawing at grade so to be safe I used real stone for the lowest row. Had to put it up a bit at a time and like I said I'm not expert at getting mortar consistency correct (never did get it so I could squeeze it out of the bag).
So far so good, everything is holding fine. I was only able to find one picture so far and it's a bit blurry but I was pretty happy with the result. Wife was so happy she wants me to turn the corner and do the back section of the foundation as well. Can't say I disagree it was all just a bit time consuming.
that looks pretty impressive Ribs, nice work!Justin Fink - FHB Editorial
Your Friendly Neighborhood Moderator
Nothing recent, been a couple of years, but, I love it.
It takes a bit of experience. It can take finding an open-minded sub, too (sometimes a stucco sub is better than a mason; but not always). The end effects can be really stunning.
Here in the middle of Texas, a through-wall chimney breast & fireplace is (energy effciiency) dumb. In expansive soils, the foundations are hugely critical. Makes adding a fireplace a daunting proposition.
However, a sealed combustion fireplace and cultured stone breasting & chimney work is entirely possible, and very elegant. (And, you can 'cheat' a bit and have, say, a rubble stone breastwork, but a neighborhood/HOA/ARB compliant "brick" chimney.)
Stone is a very tactile surface, being able to add that efficiently as an interior finish opens an entire new "pallette" for near maintenance-free finish.
Back to energy efficiency, exterior face brick in most of Texas is less-than ideal (putting the heat sink outside in the heat to radiate "at" the insulation sub-ideal). ARB/HOA rules requiring face brick appearance, though, can be met with cultured stone nicely. Having a pallette of stone finishes to go with that installation means being able to be "part" of the neighborhood without "standing out" too much.
Often, the contractor side of it is actually in having been through enough boxes of the material to really appreciate how much mix-n-match you can actually "do." (A random finish can be as interesting as a "broken tile" job in many ways.)
None of this takes away from "real" stone, either. In fact, the cost savings in, say, not using face brick for instance, can often be translated into some better use of real stone.
Alright, you are not going to like this but I am considering covering
the brick on the front of my house with cultured stone. Typical 4BR Colonial
with second floor cantilever front and rear. Real brick from top of
foundation (which goes from 8"-30" exposed) to bottom of second floor soffit.
Reason for covering brick is new siding in clay color and matching stucco on
garage. DW thinks I'm crazy, i think it would be cool to have some texture
and a coordinating color. Is my wife the only rational one in this conversation?
Edited 9/27/2006 3:22 pm ET by phillydzine
Edited 9/27/2006 3:38 pm ET by phillydzine
I want to install this stuff on the bottom 3 feet of the front of my house. I was told to nail cement board over the plywood sheathing (covered with tar paper of course) making sure I nail into the studs. Then to glue the stone to the cement board with thin set mortar. Just like tile work. Anyone heard of this method or actually used it. Seems like it would be much easier than wire mesh, scratch coat etc. Of course I'm looking to do the mortarless stacking method too.
CRaig
I have used that method for woodstove surrounds. I don't know the implications of doing it outside. http://www.culturedstone.com/technical/details.aspThey've got a detail for applying CS directly to concrete or CMU's, so the cement board may be ok.
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