Or just burn it down? Forgive me for asking what may be a stupid question, but….
The power went out again last night, so this morning I’m pulling out the generator and running extension cords to the freezer and fridge. No water, we’re on a well and I can’t plug that into the generator. Then it occurs to me that I could run power from the generator to my main service panel by making a 10 ga. extension line with two male ends, each with 240 v plugs. Plug one end into the 240 v output on the generator, the other into the 240 v outlet in the garage, AFTER tripping the main breaker on the service panel. Seems like then I’d have a fully powered panel, and could run selected circuits like the well and the coffee maker. I wouldn’t know when outside power was restored, but would have to check by tripping the breaker to the 240 v garage circuit, thus isolating the generator, and then restoring the main breaker.
Or is this a bad idea? Your comments are appreciated.
Replies
I'd wait till the power came back on...then call an electrician to install the tie in/disconnects made especially for hooking a generator into the panel. Forget what they're called...but all ya do after is wheel the generator outside to run.....plug it in...and throw a switch.
I'm sure a decent electric supply house would carry it so you could still do it yourself. Think I remember them running a coupla hundred bucks......your way still might work......this way may have a better shot at the house still being there after the storm passes! Jeff
She's exotic ,but not foreign, like an old Cadillac......she's a knockout!
what you suggest is "roughly" how its done. BUT there is a device meant to do this automatically so when the power comes back on, the generator is disconnected.
hubert,
You need a transfer switch. Here is one.
http://www.northerntool.com/cgi-bin/ncommerce3/ProductDisplay?prrfnbr=147&prmenbr=6970
KK
I’ve done the same thing, but I suggest that the better way to do it is by running the 240V lines to a 30 amp breaker on the service panel board. It, in effect, becomes your new temporary new main. This way you have protection for that 10gauge line. You probably have a 240V 30 amp breaker in that board servicing some branch somewhere that you can afford to give up for the time being and use it as this new “main”. As you indicated, make sure to turn the real main off first and then ascertain when the power is back on, and get your generator disconnected before turning the real main back on. MAKE CERTAIN THAT YOU HAVE A GOOD GROUND FOR THAT GENERATOR or your voltage will suffer and the appliances with it.
A manual transfer switch or generator panel would be the preferred solution. Both of these are designed to physically keep the generator electrically segregated from the line power and vice versa. If you have a generator or alternate energy source. Spend the money and do it right.
That said I have, for temporary and emergency use only, connected a generator in a manner similar to the method described. I have a 30A male - male patch cord for plugging into the drier outlet and lock out devices for most common main breakers. These are locked with frangible, designed to be breakable in case of extreme emergency, lock that has my name, phone ,etc. There are two copies of the key. One with me and one locked up on the truck.
Given knowledge of electrical systems and a great deal of care this can be a relatively safe way of powering selected circuits without resorting to extensive extension cord use and the problems and hazards associated with that method. I am an electrician by trade and even given years of training, experience and insurance it still gives me pause to hook up a generator this way.
One thoughtless moment could have catastrophic consequences. Generator exposed to line current can literally explode in flames. While the idea that your generator only produces 120/240v and so it would be little hazard to linemen sound good it is incorrect. The same transformers that convert 4160v or 7200v line voltage to the 120/240v you use at your house also work in reverse. If you feed 120/240v into them from your service drop you get 4160v or 7200v on the overhead lines. It only takes 1 amp to kill someone. Much less to make them fall from a pole or recoil into other lines.
Your scheme will likely work. If great care is taken odds are that no one gets hurt. The problem is that outages happen at the worse times. ie:It has been raining and sleeting for two days. The kids are sick. You have been fighting with the wife about you spending too much time on work. You dried in a house in the freezing rain, came home late to a big fight and now you have the flu and haven't slept for three days. It's 4 AM and the last big gust as the sleet turned to snow kills the power. You struggle out of bed, into the bitter cold, and start to connect your generator with freezing fingers as your nose runs and head pounds. Failure to get it exactly right can bring explosive destruction to your home and family or kill the lineman working hard in lousy conditions to protect your family by restoring power.
While you can work at relative leisure and in your own time please spend this time and some money to have a transfer switch installed. Do it right. Protect your family. Protect the working guys on the lines.
Well said.Quittin' Time
There absolutely has to be a transfer switch. In some states, it is a legal requirement.
In all likelyhood, when you signed up for service, hidden someplace in the small print was a line or two agreeing to only use appropriately designed and legally installed devices to protect their lines from uncontrolled feedback.
I have a friend who climbs the poles to restore power in all kinds of weather so we can be warm and watching TV when it's miserable outside. He's a meek and mellow fellow. He's got a great wife and kid. He'll do anything for you at the drop of a hat.
But if he finds out you've got an illegal or unsafe hookup that might just kill him, he'll be breathing fire and will pull your plug faster'n greased lightning. And it'll take a score of inspections to get you turned back on too.Excellence is its own reward!
4LORN1,
You have it right! Well put!!
I want to thank everyone for the very instructive feedback. I'll get the transfer switch and have it installed correctly. Besides, if I do that it will almost guarantee that the power will never go out again.
Ain't that the truth. The parents have a generator and ever since they got it the power has remained stable.
I live in Montreal Quebec, You know the ice storm we had. Well it seams alot of people jury rigged generators all over the province that time and it made the job of restoring power longer for every reason given above. The line men had to take extra care and longer hours to make sure all the generators in the neighbourhood were turned off and disconnected.
Get it done by a certified electrician please.
I fully agree with these guys that you need to get that transfer switch installed by a competent electrician. My suggestion was just intended to get you by on a one time only emergency basis. If these power outages are a common occurance, you'll likely find yourself here again and you'll both need and be glad that you have a handy hook-up and that tranfer switch. I've got one hooked up here and it's the only safe way to go for everyone that's involved.
If you just flip the main breaker to prevent backfeed, what's to stop the wife or somebody else, even your self from absentmindedly tripping it back on again while the dude is on your pole?
Somebody would be taking a loooonnnngg guilt trip.
Excellence is its own reward!
Yea, I know. That's why the second post clarifying that the first suggestion was just for an emergency one time thing. Around these parts, Com Ed is easy to get along with and so what I do in these types of situations when I'm called in to help with an emergency is to to clip the tag on the meter base cover, pull the meter, and then replace the cover in a basically kid- proof fashion. When the need for emergency power is over, I replace the meter, call Com Ed and tell them that we clipped the tag and need a new one installed. The reply is always, "Okay" , we'll be out today or tomorrow". I've got a transfer switch on ours now, although I did the emergency style hook-up a few years ago for numerous households, including my own, when a tornando hit a large area here including the little town I live in.
In the event that one doesn't pull the meter base, you could always just put some tape over the main breaker to remind yourself or anyone else not to touch it. Along with that tape, you can always hang a sign informing everyone not to touch that taped main breaker.
Emergencies call for emergency measures, but I try not to cause another one in the process of helping someone in need. That's why I pull the meter until repairs are made and the safe switchback to line power is ready.
Edited 8/1/2002 9:53:26 AM ET by GOLDHILLER
Hubert,
Please, heed the advice of the previous posters and install a proper transfer switch.
Simply flipping your main breaker may not completely prevent your generator from backfeeding the grid. You can injure of kill a lineman who is trying to restore your service.
If you're going to screw with power, screw with it correctly.
All of you are correct in saying that if the generator backfeeds the main line there will be high voltage on the primary of the line transformer. BUT - the power line will be seen as a low impedance due to the other loads present, thus most likely your generator will see what is basically a short circuit and stall, trip a breaker, or flame out.
We're describing a situation where there are NO other loads present because the power has gone out and somplace upline the repair crew has tripped the switch so they can work on the lines safely, not aware that someones generator may be feeding back to them.Excellence is its own reward!
Absolutely!!!!! Like I said before. During the ice storm of 1998 the Hydro guys where somewhat pissed to see their colleague in the hospital 'cause some "weekendwarrior" without a clue fried their friend.
I know this sounds harsh but I can't stress enough to get the right kind of switch and have it installed by a licensed electrician. Just like I won't play with the gas line.
was just flipping thru the latest Tool Crib...they have the switches......think $200-$300.......Jeff She's exotic ,but not foreign, like an old Cadillac......she's a knockout!
If no loads are on the high tension lines you are right, but usually there are other loads present. I would never think of hooking a generator up without a transfer switch, just saying that I doubt that a small generator would be able to backfeed a power line. The high tension lines would have to be disconnected on both sides of the primary windings to feed high voltage to the lines. Also in my case, three houses connect to the secondary windings, so I would be directly hooking to three houses, and there is no way a small generator could overcome that.