Is alum ok to use for a window pan? I have a brake, so it’ll be easy to do.
What I would like to do is fab a pan out of Vicor first, so the sill and corners are well sealed. Then I would like to put an alum pan…as a back up…on top of the Vicor. Is this a worthwhile approach, or am I wasting my time with the alum? or maybe…put the alum under the Vicor?
Around here we get some pretty nasty winds that cause near horizontal rains. By using 2 pans, I hope & want to be sure 110% the install this time stands up to what ever nature sends and then some.
Thanks
Replies
'poxied or plain...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
WOW!!! What a Ride!
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
plain
have a roll from the lumber yard, not HD if it matters
mill finish will oxidize...
so after awhile yur pans will become a problem...Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!<!----><!---->
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
Minor thread hijacking but....
I've been asking myself the same question - how to flash windows. Is it OK to cut up some standard I&W shield and use it as the pan flashing? Or would one of those peel-n-stick roll flashings be better?
And why would the oxidization of the aluminum really be a problem? Yes, ugly; and over a long period of time it will eat the aluminum, but people use aluminum as flashing all the time and it seems to work out fine?
I think the I&W would be just as good, but I think it's thicker?? That might make it a PITA to fit the corners. Does I&W have any elasticity? I know the Vicor does.
Ditto on the oxidation. I've seen roof valley pans that were 15 yrs old and the stuff was still in great shape. The same with step flashing...looked fine.
What about the color coated stuff? Like what I used for my step flashing where the garage roof meets the gable wall of the house. Not sure if it's epoxied, but it's a pretty durable coating. Plus it's a heavier gauge too. That stuff might even be better.
If the alum does become a problem...what kind of time frame you talking about?
Edited 8/27/2005 9:14 am ET by caveman
Here's a couple pics of the coated stock I mentioned. I think I'll probably use it instead of the plain stuff.
Any opinions? Still wonder if I should just use the Vicor and nothing else. I can fit that stuff as tight as a glove. The additional alum pan would just be another added safe guard.
we use Grace Ice & water for our window pan flash..
we haven't used mill finish aluminum in about 20 years
we use a lot of painted coil stock for flashings.. but our is painted both sides , it looked like the one in the pic. was coated one side only
mill finish oxidizes very fast around here with coastal salt air... besides it looks "cheap"Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Mike
Do you ever have the need to use both...the Grace I&W and a fab'd pan?
yes, for instance... under doors..
sometimes we use copper instead of the coil stock.. we don't solder .. we combine it with Grace..
and you can make Grace do almost anything you want with a heat-gun
keep in mind, you should protect the Grace from ultraviolet degradationMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
I agree with under doors and I did use both under mine.
But for the windows I guess I'll just stick with the I&W pan for under them(along with the correct layering of the I&W on the sides and top). That should correct my problems I hope.
I knew about the ultraviolet issues but thanks for the reminder
Thanks again...
Mike covered ya...Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!<!----><!---->
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
I really need to be certain I did this correctly so here's what I did...
-wrapped the jambs with Tyveck
-pulled back the Tyveck from the sill, made the pan with Grace and it overlaps/seals on top of the Tyveck below the window sill
-caulked both sides and the top of the window opening and installed the window
-put Grace on the 2 sides and then the top
got a couple questions now...with the first being most important
1--the bottom(sill) nail fin is NOT caulked nor sealed with Grace on top of it. I believe this is to allow the pan to function ie...to allow any water that might get there, to drain. Am I correct?
2--the top(head) nail flange incorporates a drip edge that extends over the window frame. Is this sufficient or do I need to fab one from trim coil? I can't see what another drip cap would do that this one doesn't.
I attached a pic of the flange/drip cap in question
There was another thread about window flashing in the past week. Check out the June article in the Journal of Light Construction on flashing windows, the technique they demonstrate is quite good. FlexWrap is a great product and worth the money IMO. You can also do quite well with a soldered copper pan, but it can be hard to get unless you have a good sheet metal connection.
Edit: the issue with what you describe above is that you did not get the top flange UNDER the Tyvek, if I read it correctly. That's what you should do. The JLC technique is to then apply the Vycor to the sheathing above the window, under the Tyvek and over the fin. Then let the Tyvek sit over the Vycor and the fin also.
You are now depending on the seal between the Vycor and the Tyvek to protect your window. It will probably work OK.
Edited 8/29/2005 1:31 am ET by davidmeiland
I did see the thread and followed your instructions, big thanks BTW!.
That is where I learned about the pan. and if I understood you...not to seal/caulk or tape the lower flange. I did just that in the past and now I believe that is why I still had problems....I was trapping water under the sill.
I guess my description was not too clear as far as the head flange sealing. I only wrapped the jambs and then put the Grace on the flange and sheathing, except for the bottom. There I left the Tyveck long about 12" and then sealed the Grace to the Tyveck. I have one more window to do and then I'll replace the Tyveck entirely. The Tyveck that is on there now has been exposed to the weather for about 6 months and the brutal southern exposure has taken a toll on it. But it did help and keep the sheathing protected.
I'll have to check out the JLC technique. I'm still not sure if I need to leave the Tyveck unsealed on the head flange or tape it.
Thanks for your input...greatly appreciated!
Some one makes vinyl pans, different jamb widths and expandable lengths (overlapping)
If anyone is interested I will look for it.
EricIt's Never Too Late To Become
What You Might Have Been
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I've seen the PVC pan kits that come with left and right ends and a middle section that you cut to length. They glue together. My opinion as the trim guy was that they caused the windows to be out of plumb, i.e. further out at the bottom than the top. Not a lot, maybe, but enough to make for some jerking around with the casing. I'd rather have a copper pan or Flexwrap.
I've never seen a window panned at all. Well, maybe some oldies.
So why doesn't copper or FlexW create the same condition?
I'm a bit leary of anything of any thickness being behind the ext casing or nail fin.
EricIt's Never Too Late To Become
What You Might Have Been
[email protected]
http://www.jamsill.com/
woof................milk bones for Bill!It's Never Too Late To Become
What You Might Have Been
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I bet that is a Marvin window!!!! They use the same drip cap. If you do not use it and ther is a problem... Maravin/ distributor will walk away and claim you did not follow correct installation proceedures.
you should use wrap over it after window is installed before siding or brick goes on.
Yep...Marvin Integrity series. An excellent product IMO and the Co stands behind their products too. Trust me on that one LOL. Just ask Imerc how analistical I can be<VBG>
I have no intention of omitting their drip cap/flange. I just got the impression from some research that I should use an additional one. Guess not..............:)
We've been using the Tyvek FlexWrap for the sills and the straight for the rest, but horizontal rains are not common here in So Cal.
You on a coast? Sounds like the Oregon coast in the winter.
FWIW: <http://construction.tyvek.com/en/productServices/Flashing/index.shtml>
@@@ On the other side of caring...
Watched the framer crew next door (not our project) install the windows. Popped them into the RO and nailed them up. No caulk. No flashing of any sort anywhere. Wanted to see if the siding subs would take care of this. Nope. Winter should be interesting.
The ToolBear
"Never met a man who couldn't teach me something." Anon.
Flex Wrap is special order, no one stocks it. Is this product really worth the $$? I need to put this window back in today so I'll use what I have...Grace & Vicor
Southern New England about 20 miles from the coast, but hilltop location and strong S / SW winds in the summer when a storm blows thru