Working in the 2nd floor and noticed water beneath the window sills on two sets of old double windows (pairs of double hungs). Heavy rains here for a week, but I don’t like water inside. They were installed around 50 years ago and not kept painted. The sills look real, real weatherbeaten. House may get painted this fall, if not in the spring.
Question: Will an epoxy be sufficient to fill the sills to last another 20 years? Which one/how? Or is it going to be necessary to try to replace the sills on these units in place? Thought about trying to wrap the sills in aluminum, but I would prefer not to.
By the way, windows have copper capitals on top buried under beveled cedar siding so removal is not in the cards. Sash are being changed with new replacements shortly.
Don K.
Replies
Help?
I just use Bondo. Dig out all the rotted stuff and fill it. Paint it and your done.
Some people are going to get on my case for using Bondo.
Link - Well, nobody got on your case for the bondo suggestion. I looked at the Smith & Co. site referred right after yours and their suggestion is that the use of a filler alone is not enought to stop rot. I don't have any rot on these, but I prefer the idea of the epoxy fillers. Thanks. Don
Link - Well, nobody got on your case for the bondo suggestion. I looked at the Smith & Co. site referred right after yours and their suggestion is that the use of a filler alone is not enought to stop rot. I don't have any rot on these, but I prefer the idea of the epoxy fillers. Thanks. Don
I'm a little confused by the Smith & Co. statement that filler won't stop rot. I order to have wood rot you need two things. Moisture above 18% and oxygen. If you clean out all the old rot, let the wood dry and seal out any more water from getting in. It will not rot. If it's not protected by paint or there is a leak that is letting water in behind the wood. It will rot more.
Try epoxy. It will bond with the wood. Bondo has problems there.
The Guegon brothers make a product line called WEST for wood epoxy saturation technique. It's used in boat building and it's easy to use. Used it for years. Goggle on it. FWIW - West Marine carries part of the line.
The big problem with the two part stuff is you have to do the metering by eye and epoxy, unlike bondo and such, is very picky about the right proportions. I have a fitting expoxied in 20 yrs. back that might kick any day now.
You can buy WEST metering pumps that screw into the cans of the A and B mix. One stroke on each pump meters the right amount. Cuts the muss and fuss. Stir and add your filler - lots of choices there. I use milled fibers, CabOSil, microballons, etc. Add filler to a peanut butter consistency and apply.
The ToolBear
"Never met a man who couldn't teach me something." Anon.
I use bondo occasionally when I have to finish today and move on but for a job like this I think epoxy is the thing. I think epoxy tends to expand and contract with the wood but bondo patches will get spit out over time. That is my experience anyway. I've lately been using this stuff called PC Woody which sands up vey nicely.
Tom
Bondo IS epoxy. It's 2 part. There is a chemical reaction that takes place to harden it, as opposed to drying. I've used it to fix many sills. You have to clean out all the rotted wood so the Bondo has something to attach it self to. If your just sticking it to rot that's not going to stay.
I've used Bondo to rebuild delicate wood detail on a front door. I made a plaster cast of an undamaged detail on one door. Cast it in Bondo and nailed in place. 25 years later it's still there.
I'm sure there are other epoxy's out there that work fine too. I like Bondo. It's cheep, easy to get, and very easy to work with.
I knew I'd get trashed for suggesting Bondo. BTW. It's a type of plastic. It does NOT absorb water.
Link - Your last post about casting the bondo hit a different nerve. I have an old 1920's mirror that had four applied corner ornaments, and somehow two turned up missing. I wanted to cast replacements; it's been on my list of things to do for a while. Now, I know what I can use. Thanks!!!
Abatron has materials specifically for this, including the stuff to make molds from first. Since you have a sample to work from with the two that you have already, and this way you can make extras when more turn up missing.
I looked up the Bondo website to see if it is Epoxy but all I got was that you shouldnt smell, touch, or taste it, or get within a half mile of the stuff when its curing.
I've used Bondo a lot and I wasnt trashing you just stating my own opinion. But hey, good arguments make for good threads so you must be out of your mind to use that Bondo stuff!!
Keep up the good work Link
Tom
oktyke
Just another day in paradise
Actually, it's a filled polyester resin, rather than epoxy. They are both 2-part plastic resins. This just means it's not quite as strong or as rigid as epoxy. For most uses in construction, polyester is fine.
bondo? worse stuff to use. it draws moisture. if panit gets any kind of nick it will draw the moisture in.
use rid rot . its made for this application.tyke
Just another day in paradise
I've used these products successfully on my house and on old boats.
http://www.smithandcompany.org/
Serious chemicals and pricey, but it works good
Edit- you'll want to use penetrating epoxy and epoxy filler
Mike
Trust in God, but row away from the rocks.
Edited 10/16/2005 12:35 am by ruffmike
Mike, thanks for the referral. Seems like epoxy is catching on. (By the way, I've always liked your tag line.) Don
Min-wax makes a two-part epoxy filler. They also have a liquid you can put on first on punky wood to harden it (after you've dug out as much of the bad as possible), then you apply the filler. I cannot seem to get this other name right, but another similar two-part filler is Abatron.
The sills still slope away from the sashes, right? I had a similar problem and found in heavy rains there wasn't enough slope and the water would back up in the lower track of the window (couldn't get out of the weep holes).
You may also want to look here under "Construction Techniques" at a discussion called "window sill repair."
Edited 10/16/2005 7:54 am ET by Danno
If there's a lot of rot, dig it out and fill with bondo. If its just weathered then the abatron products are considered the premiere line - liquid wood and woodepox. Minwax's are easier to get and cheaper. You want a wood hardener and a filler, regardless of brand.But find out why its leaking first. Your sill should have a groove cut in the underside to make the water drip off. If you have storm windows, make sure there's caulking around the top and sides, but not the bottom. Make sure the weep holes aren't caulked shut.
Bob - I'm trying to find out where water is coming in. The frames are loose, need to be renailed/screwed together and recaulked too for sure. There are no storm windows on these sash to hold the water in, and the sills are pitched down. I don't know if there is a drip cut underneath or not. One window sill does have some damage, but it didn't appear to be where the leak was from.
Now that the rain has stopped, I need to get out and really go over them. Thanks for the suggestions.
Don K.
Danno - thanks for the referral to the other thread. I found it after I posted mine. Don