I have a 720 sq. ft. detached garage (new) that I am going to use as a woodshop. I am planning to have a professional run overhead power from the 200-amp house main panel to the garage and install a 100-amp panel, 220 volt. I haven’t decided exactly where I will situate each power tool yet, so am thinking about doing the actual garage circuit wiring after I move everything around and am fairly happy with work flow. What is a good reference I can use to properly lay out circuits, both 220 v. and 110 v.? By the way, everything will be permitted and inspected as required by the county. Thanks.
Formerly just ‘Don’ but not the ‘Glassmaster Don’ or the lower-case ‘don’.
Replies
I would peruse the aisle on home improvements in your local bookstore and look for specifically what it takes to wire a home workshop. There are several books available on setting up shop, (Taunton Press has several), depending on the type of shop you want, and how to make the most use of your space. You should make a list of what you intend to use and how much pull each one of these machines may have. Then you can determine whether or not you can put them on a loop or if you need a dedicated 'home run' circuit. Your 220's will be dedicated. You should group these circuits into separated categories, for instance put all your overhead lighting on one, do a 'general use' (hand held light machinery, radio etc) on one or two, then do all your dedicated ones, but don't mix the groups together. Since it is a workshop, I would just go ahead and use all 20 amp for your general 110v. Remember to make a wiring plot and file it away. Good luck.
Thanks for the suggestions. Good idea about the wiring plot. I also usually take photos of a wall before I sheath it - makes it easier to find pipes, wires, vents, etc.Formerly just 'Don' but not the 'Glassmaster Don' or the lower-case 'don'.
It doesn't hurt to put a tape measure or two into the photos either. Extend them out at least from one corner and from floor to ceiling or the other way around.Les Barrett Quality Construction
Huh????Formerly just 'Don' but not the 'Glassmaster Don' or the lower-case 'don'.
I learned many years ago that there is significant value in knowing what is behind a wall. Whenever I break into a wall or build new, I create a record of what is inside for future reference. This has evolved from simple photographs of the framing, wiring, DWV, comm, and so on. At this point, I create complete AutoCAD drawings of any work I do, down the level of individual studs, wiring, and anything else in a wall or floor. I also keep daily photo records with my 8MP digital camera. All of this, along with material lists, is compiled into one file and transferred to CD. I provide a CD to my customer upon final payment and keep one for my own records. I also give a few extras to the customer to pass on to friends.
In the days when I only took photographs, I learned that it is sometimes difficult to tell exactly where something is located, even with a picture. The solution was to stretch out a tape measure along the wall for example, so that one could later read off the distances and get an accurate picture of the infrastructure placement. This can also be done vertically where appropriate.Les Barrett Quality Construction
This is one example of how a tape can be useful in a pic. I took this photo at the job site with my digital cam at the end of the day and used it at home to work out details for a soffit transition at home in AutoCAD.
This file is compressed to 167kb, yet is still useful as a reference. At the original 8mp, it can be quite accurate.Les Barrett Quality Construction
100A is more than adequate for most home shops. Most, barring the frequent use of large welders, compressors or other high-draw units, can get by with a 60A sub-panel. Usually the large stationary power tools are used one at a time.
Of course this might be changed if you use a lot of larger power tools like a 5HP table saw or such and there is no down side once the 100A sub is installed. There is only a minor extra charge for materials going from a 60 to 100A. Get a panel with as many spaces as you can. A small cost that can save a lot of trouble. The difference can be substantial in terms of labor in situations where the cable has to be fished long distances.
As far as circuits I usually plan for a dedicated circuit for each large stationary tool. A separate 20A lighting and ventilation circuit. AC, if any, get its own as well. I add two 20A general use receptacle circuits.
While your gaining access to the main panel it would be worthwhile to see if running conduit out of the main panel to an accessible location would be practical. Go as big as you can. Stuff the end of the conduit with duct seal to keep the critters out and limit any flue effect.
I do have a couple of 220-volt tools at present and will acquire a 2 or 3 HP dust collector. Table saw will probably get upgraded at some point, as will the small compressor I now have.
There is a $35 difference between the 60-amp service and 100-amp service - seems like a no-brainer.
The main panel is surface-mounted on the exterior of the house and feeds to a subpanel a couple of feet away inside the house. I imagine the electricians will just run a conduit up above the roofline, install a weatherhead and then string it to the garage, probably about 50 feet away.
Thanks for the suggestion about numerous slots, I'll discuss that with the installer.Formerly just 'Don' but not the 'Glassmaster Don' or the lower-case 'don'.
look into a 125A panel for the spacing...
Use a 100A for the 2 pole hook ups and the 60 for single pole wiring...
Just may keep you from using a half breaker..
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
WOW!!! What a Ride!
I am working on a new panel in my shop too. I like to make it easy for people to answer my questions.
When you say half breaker, I assume your talking about the breaker that takes up one slot but accomodates 2 feed wires. Squared-D has a box they claim handles 125 A, 8 slots, 16 circuits.
That means one gets 16 circuits if one uses 8 half breakers. Other wise one gets 8 circuits if you use full breakers. This is question A - true or false...
I suppose you don't care for half breakers because they are more expensive and harder to wire mechanically speaking. This is question B true or false.
If the answer is false in either case, please feel free to give more detail.
Square D Homo line of panels???
That means one gets 16 circuits if one uses 8 half breakers. Other wise one gets 8 circuits if you use full breakers. This is question A - true or false...
True...
I suppose you don't care for half breakers because they are more expensive and harder to wire mechanically speaking. This is question B true or false.
Heat is an issue... Can't get rid of it as easily and the half breakers are more prone to failure... 2 circuts thru 1 breaker body generates more heat..
$ was an issue nor installation...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
WOW!!! What a Ride!
I am only looking at what they have at HD. Farmers and HO don't get wholesale prices at the contractor supply shops. But I recently bought 2" rigid pipe, weatherhead, wireholder and an LB. Supply house was very competitive price wise.
My shop/garage is 24 x 28 and I want to add a subpanel in a forty foot trailer I plan to park nearby.
Having lots of crappy trees we heat with wood. A/C will be in the next shop I build. So foreseen loads include beefy air compressor, arc welder, maybe a small bandsaw sawmill, and various small electric tools. So I think 100 or 125 amps should be plenty.
I am not a Square-D stock holder, but do have their panel in the house too. So I really don't have a particular reason to choose their eq other than name recognition.
Now farming, like construction, is a capital and labor intensive business. So cost is an issue. If I remember correctly ( IIRC ) price goes way up on a 200 A box and I probably have to skip the main lugs and feed it through a 100 A breaker. That extra breaker cost hurts too. But more than 8 slots might get used.
Now we have 4 fuse driven circuits. I am changing this eq out because: 1) the service drop hits the rake about 8 ft off the ground 2) I'd like to be able to use GFCI breakers 3) the sub panel in the trailer
Anyway EQ suggestions are welcome.
Take a moment and see if your other big boxes or an outlet you have available to you carries Siemens... 125 should do just fine..
The Square D - QO series isn't too bad but the HO series leaves a lot to be desired... Seems to be rather fragil... half breakers need changing because heat kills them..
That welder could very well be a hungry beast... Plan...
You might be able to use a lager box (amp rated) for the spaces (150/200 main lug) and down rate it with a back fed smaller main... 125 amp or so...
Consider a "in good shape" used panel??? but that could be a real can of worms and an over all waste....
Compressor, sawmill, welder, 110v outlets, lighting, and 14/16 slots are accounted for... add more for high amp draw staionary tools... (dedicated circuts)
yur table saw want 220 or 110??? dedicated either way... You gonna have a planer, moulder, RA, shaper or some other hefty type machines??? Stacking (ganging) this stuff on to one circut 'cause you can only use one tool at a time some how never seems to work all that well and can become a real PITA...
You gonna feed the trailer off of the shop panel... MORE that has to be added / allowed for in... You putting in or planing on a 100 amp for the trailer???
Trying to "save" can very easily bite you in the butt latter and cost more to correct or improve... changing costs.... and costs....
Now we have 4 fuse driven circuits.
True screw in type or cartridge???
2) I'd like to be able to use GFCI breakers
Can you elaborate as to why and where the outlets / taps are intended to be...
3) the sub panel in the trailer
Where is the feed intended to come from for the trailer???
If you set up the base network for what you have and MIGHT have, life will be so much easier... Doing just enough for right now and nothing or not much for latter simply cost more.. Add the additionals as you go or can afford it.. Cheaper if you have something to work from that's already there...
Changes costs....
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
WOW!!! What a Ride!
We have the true screw in type of fuses.
The garage started it's career around 1920 as a steam powered saw mill. It was built on piers with a rasied floor. Some farmers are crappy builders. Many of them have own this garage/farm.
The floor in this garage really sucks. There's no rock under it. They just poured it on the dirt. I don't know how thick it is, but in places it is no more than 2 inches. Since there's no footing on the perimeter walls, ground hogs think this place a great site for a den. Site drainage was not given much thought, either.
BTW, kill the ground hogs and skunks move in behind them.
So anyway the concrete floor has no steel in it either and is slowly disintegating. The floor in places is mostly always damp. I see this as a ground and therefore most of the receptacles probably ought to be GFI controlled.
A couple receptacles on the outside of this building would be handy and I was thinking they could be on a GFI breaker.
"Where is the feed intended to come from for the trailer???"
I am going to run a wire out of the new panel, then under the ground to the side of the trailer up to where the trailer already has a small panel.
At the moment the trailer plan looks like a big storage shed. Mostly it needs lights and a couple of fifteen amp outlets. Long range plan calls for moving it over by the pole the meter is on. After a back hoe does some work, the back entrance to the trailer will be at ground level. At that point in time, it gets directly wired to the 200 A disconnect on the pole.
BTW, out here in the outback you don't have to get a building permit to erect a building or wire it. The county can't afford no building inspector.
Yeah, someday dad, 72, will probably inherit me his big Dewalt planer. My tablesaw is the cheapest crapsman some rich city boy returned because he needed it for just one job or he was not satisfied with it, but it may well get replaced too. A problem with life is unless you start with money the amount of dollars in tools you need is high. My dust collection system is a big shop vac I move around.
So nobody makes a 20 slot 100 A panel?
Someday I'll hopefully build an new shop and just store farm implements and a tractor in this old shop.
Go to an electrical supply store and see what they can fit you upt with.
And/or go the manufactures websites and see what they offer.
I am looking at some SqD QO catalog sheets and they show indoor 100 amp with main breakers in 12, 16, 20, 24, & 32 poles.
In the rainproof they have 100 amp with main breaker in 12, 16, and 20 slots. And at 125 amps 24 slots.
Have a look see and this may help ith the planning...
Siemens http://www.sea.siemens.com/reselec/product/mfm.html
or
Square D http://ecatalog.squared.com/cgi-bin/huggycgi.exe?Qy=child&Bd=SD&Lg=en&Id=2658
Square D http://ecatalog.squared.com/cgi-bin/huggycgi.exe?Qy=child&Bd=SD&Lg=en&Id=2657
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
WOW!!! What a Ride!
I look at the siemens catalog and I see two parts that would be way better than what I have G2020B1100 and G2020B1100CU. 100 amps and 20 slots.
The first has aluminum bus and the second is copper. A) Each would use the same breakers? B) The main difference would be the AL model is probably cheaper?
and not as well made...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
WOW!!! What a Ride!
Yes, I would go with the copper. Specially in a non-conditioned area.
Why even get near aluminum anything in electrical...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
WOW!!! What a Ride!
I'd start with dust control first. Get the Tauton book which has some layouts for different sized shops in it. Setting up your dust collection is way more complex than electrical. 5 and 6" ducting is way more complex to run than 1/2 and 3/4" conduit, and run distance and bends are way more critical.
With 220, you have a choice between 20A and 30A plugs/receptacles. There is a significant cost difference between them. I've been running my 3HP jet cabinet saw off a 20A for two years with no problem. I suspect other 3HP machines can get by OK with a 20A circuit.
I was in HD the other night and was shocked to see that 1/2" EMT is twice what I paid a couple years ago. =8-O I was thinking that I overbought supplies back then, but now it looks like foresight.
You're correct, ideally. However, given a choice between installing dust collection with no electricity and electricity with no dust collection, I'm opting for electricity. At least the shop will be usable. The walls and ceiling are open and running conduit and/or ducting will be easy. Until I get the wiring in, I can't get anything up against the walls and, believe me, there's a lot of "stuff" sitting in piles right now. My priority is getting wiring in and then getting benches, cabinets and shelving installed.Formerly just 'Don' but not the 'Glassmaster Don' or the lower-case 'don'.
I'm only saying that as one who did electricity, then ducting, and is now re-doing some electricity. ;-)
When I wired my new garage / shop (900 s.f.) I wired everything with metal boxes and flex conduit. I put a 120 duplex outlet about one every five feet at four feet from the ground. I made sure that I had sufficient J-boxes at the rafters and conduit runs to larger J-boxes and ultimately the panel so that any of those outlets could be wired as 220 by removing and pulling new wires and adding beakers.
Definitately make a photographic record of the conduit runs before you cover the walls.
The only tool that I couldn't accomodate with the wall outlets was the table saw. I was thinking of having a stub-out poured into the slab, but I didn't want to be tied to a fixed location. I ended up pulling off one of the refter J-boxes and dropping down with EMT to the saw. The EMT drop is at the far end of the extension table (over 5 feet from the blade) so it's not a problem.
Jim
Don't forget that the general use receptacle circuits in a garage are GFCI. No need to do this for dedicated tool circuits.
I've been surprised how much EMT is lately as well. 'used to be so cheap, using it in an application like a garage shop was a no-brainer. It's gone up in price alot.
"Don't forget that the general use receptacle circuits in a garage are GFCI. No need to do this for dedicated tool circuits."
Not exactly.
First only 120 V receptacles need the GFCI, not 240 V.
And there are 2 excepts on 120 volt receptacles that don't require GFCI.
1) Those not readily accessible because of their height (garage door opener).
2) Those receptacles DEDICATED to equipment that is stationary and not readily moved, but I would have to read the code for the exact wording.
So that excludes any equipment that is on portable or on mobile bases.
And it is limited to a single receptacle for each piece of equipment.
However, this is realy and area that is up to the inspector's opinon and local practices.
I recently worked on a woodshop for a retiree. He had us run all the power tool circuits through a sub panel. He keeps the sub panel off, except when in use, in order to prevent "accidents" when the grandkids are around. It seemed like a real good idea, and the switch is conveniently located above the lightswitches, out of reach of small children