I need to replace the Franklin Stove we use for winter heating. I love the old thing (circa 1956) but it has a big crack in the side that lets extra air in, burning the wood up in no time. As a result, the thing is cold as a stone before the morning comes so the house and my family are also cold as stones.
Thought I would ask the Breaktimers their opinions on makes, models and features I should look for.
Would like something medium smallish, with a door that seals tight so I can regulate the burn rate better. A blower – good idea? seems like a good idea….how about catalytic vs. non-catalytic – any opinions there?
Last but not least – seems like it would be nice not to lose the nice look of the open fire the old Franklin stove had – but only when you wanted it…..
BTW – I see that Piffin has been frequenting the House Chat forum as well….perhaps he is looking for a bit more refinement after years of us crusty Breaktimers?
Thanks
Wylie
Success = Work+ Risk + Luck, in that order. Muriel Seibert
Replies
one word...only
JOTUL..
go for the gold.
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations.
mine is a LOPI patriot.
one word...only
JOTUL..
Man, you took 'The Word' right outta my mouth.
I heat this house with a No. 3 (non-cat.) Jotul. It's a squeeze to get a full-sized 16-incher in her, but she heats 1800 sq. feet on two floors with no blowers other than a 'Casablanca' ceiling fan in the upstairs hallway.
And up here, it gets down to -40. And I'm on the south side of the lake, too....
Dinosaur
'Y-a-tu de la justice dans ce maudit monde?
JOTYL is good...Vermont Castings are on the same level....
Get either of those and you'll wonder how you got by all those years with that Franklin!
I think you're in Calif. so you probably have to conform to the "Oregon" stove rules.
Personally I have a Soap Stone Stove (Mfg in Vermont) and I love it, but the Catalytic converter is a PITA! If your wood is not absolutely dry, or if you burn anything like newspaper with colored inks, it will fail or clog up. The replacement of mine is about $125 so I just by-pass it.
The open fire thing can be partially achieved with some of the Vermont Castings and maybe the JOTYLS. They come with glass in the doors and, an older VC that we loaned to a neighbor can have a fire with the door open....there's a heavy screen that you set in front of the firebox to block flying sparks...like you get if you burn maple.
this is mine
thanks. I've heard the same thing about Catalytic converters for the stoves - more of a pain than they are worth.
How about the stoves with electric blowers? Anybody with any experience? I'm trying to heat 1200 sqft with the sucker so I figure I need some way to push that heat around....
Wylie
Success = Work+ Risk + Luck, in that order. Muriel Seibert
I've had both Jotul and Vermont Castings. Both very good. I don't like the Cat stoves - you can't burn even a bit of scrap with paint or stain if you have a Cat.
To move the heat around, get a celing fan. Blow up in winter, down in summer.You're unique! Just like everyone else! Scott Adams
my local stove guy told me that catalitics, once mandated by the EPA, are now outlawed by the EPA....
my new stove is a Waterford, made in Ireland, real nice...
Second the motion on the Waterford.
Toledo,
I don't believe that is the case as I just bought a Fireplace Xtrordinair and they use a catalytic converter. It puts out very few emissions and it is legal to burn any day of the year in Denver, which has very strict burn rules.
I'd rather not have a catalytic converter, but there aren't any other arched fireplaces out there quite like it at 44". It can burn a 32" log. Okay, I admit it, it was aesthetics!
Thanks for all the replies. I knew I could count on Breaktimers for the straight scoop.
To take the thread a slightly new direction - firewood:
I've been cutting and burning California Black Oak and it seems very good, but boy that stove has to be hot before it will combust. Tried Almond and I think I need to find some more of that - hot, long burning, little ash, smells like almonds...good stuff
Wylie
Success = Work+ Risk + Luck, in that order. Muriel Seibert
Hope you dont mind me joining in. I've been pricing these out too. Replacing the existing built in retro steel fireplace we have. The kind I looked at was a high efficiency fireplace. Need that kind because I dont have space out in front of the wall. Its a self contained built in type.
Anyway, the guy tells me either BIS or another brand would cost me about $2,000 for the stove, $1,000 or so for the pipe up to the roof and $1,500 or more for labor. All said and done about $5,000.
Does that sound excessive to anyone?
Well, hate to say it, but that is what we are doing and it will be about 5K. Ours is in new construction, so we have to actually frame the fireplace and hearth and then put on the fake rock. That will probably be another $1500.
Ours is a Fireplace Xtrordinair. The unit costs a little more, but the pipe is cheaper. Here's how mine breaks out:
Giant 44" arched fireplace $4000
Pipe and stuff $ 500
Labor $ 700
Works out to just over 5K.
Given the projections for the price of natural gas, I think it will pay for itself over time...wood for us is free. It will instantly add more equity to the house than it cost. Ours is a log home, so it kind of "requires" that sort of fireplace.
Paula, yes but your stove alone is quite pricey. They quoted me 1500 in labor and 1000 for pipe. Thanks though. I'm going to budget on $5k but probably get in for less after I shop around. You'rs sounds nice though.
I'll give you a little info on stoves then the wood. I have an Earth Stove. Sucks but it's a long story. Front (door) slopes back on top and it can fill up the room with smoke pretty fast if a log has rolled to the front and you open it. All that smoke goes right upstairs too! Best stove I had was one I made. It was made from a small water heater made to go under the counter. It was of course modified by welding. No problems with the welding. Maybe that is just a pat on my back. The stack went up inside the house (9' ceiling) then out. The inside pipe is single wall. It put off a good deal of heat in addition to the stove. Had one in the basement and it had very little single wall. Never heated up as well.
Wood: One word--pinon. Small diameter so little splitting required. Started well. Pretty hot. Throw in the hardwoods on top on the pinon to last the night. I have a chimney brush but don't need it much. I would provide outside combustion air if I did it all again. Note: Wife likes to rearrange furniture and the stove corner has been coveted for some time to acheive that "different" look.
Thought I would move a little hot air with a small fan behind the stove. Worked good until the plastic blades got all warped! Tyr
Edited 10/26/2004 2:35 pm ET by Tyr
Edited 10/26/2004 2:36 pm ET by Tyr
aesthetics are almost everything - sounds like a very nice unit...
so either they have improved the cat system, or the stove guy was wrong, or he just flat lied to me, which wouldn't suprise me since he is an ......., so I didn't buy my stove from him anyway.
toledo,
After buying a woodstove a few years ago and now this fireplace, I'm convinced that the markup on these stoves is SIGNIFICANT. These guys are probably making 2K off my fireplace. I think that it makes the shopping experience somewhat like buying a car.....unpleasant!
I asked the question about the replacement cost of the catalytic converter on our Xtraordinair. I was told it had a 6 year warranty and that the replacement part was $70. I can live with that.
We're getting the fireplace on Nov 5th. I can't wait. I've never had a fireplace.
Move the air with a ceiling fan.
To the best of my knowledge, any stove with a blower is welded steel. Did you ever see a welded steel coal or wood burning locomotive or steam boat?
That wood fire places a lot of stress on a steel box. Once saw the result of weld failure in a wood stove, and determined cast iron forever.
I have the same stove except mine has a brass door. I got it for $600 ten years ago and have been offered more than that but I wont part with it. Its a great burning stove. Only problem is you have to cut your logs a little smaller.
Jotuls are excellent. The Vermont Casting Intrepid as well. Both have glass doors, good controls and ash boxes. I've got a Lakewood at the camp. its just a fire bick lined steel box with a couple of pipe caps welded to threaded rods in the door to serve as air vent. It can take two foot logs. That keeps us going all night in an uninsulated cabin - Lake Huron. The most recent one I bought is a Pacific energy model with a cold water heating coil (to make the water hot-I don't want to tread on any pet peeves here). The ash box is no good, but the rest seems well thought out and well constructed. The glass door self cleans the best that I've seen. It holds enough coals to keep hot after 8-10 hours. Takes a 16" log.
I would recommend it.
We heat 1200 feet with a wood stove. It's got a blower. I use it when I get the stove past the red line on the thermometer and when I want heat in a hurry. It's real noisy.
I'm hoping to run a duct from over the stove to the kitchen in the attic. I'll have a duct booster fan too. Then I can suck hot air out of the living room to the kitchen. Cold air will flow back through the living space.
I put the ceiling fan in years ago when Dad lived at the farm. He thought it was a terrific improvement. The farm house has 9' ceilings.
Has anyone ever heard of a Stirling engine? I noticed an eBay auction that incorporated a Stirling engine into a wood stove fan:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=2594&item=5929273022&rd=1
Don't know if it works, but in theory it should. Not what I could call 'inexpensive' though.
The engine works off of varying temps. I've seen small demonstrator versions of Stirling engines that would spin a fan blade (blades about the size of a tongue depressor) just from the heat coming off a cup of coffee. I believe all that is needed to make it work is a temperature difference.
jt8
Edited 10/26/2004 1:53 pm ET by JohnT8
Kinda like this??
http://www.plowhearth.com/product.asp?section_id=0&department=0&search_type=normal&search_value=fan&pcode=680
Seen one work, pretty cool. Doesn't move a HUGE volume of air, but you'd be surprised at what it does move.
As for stoves, I would definitely go airtight. I have a Russo 3-GVC and LOVE it, heat the entire 1762 square feet of my house. A few ceiling fans and the right layout and convection carries the hear right up the steps, really nice. Furnace doesn't even run. It is hungry for wood though, an airtight stove would help me with that. Can control the burn better in an airtight stove.
Edited 10/26/2004 2:27 pm ET by frontiercc
While your at it, make sure you contact your home fire insurance agency to make sure you are covered
direct connections are a no-no
In-direct connections have to be listed in the coverage.
Piff and me both have Vermont Castings and I'll speak for him "and" me....Theyre great!
Mine burns wood and coal.
Priceless!
Be warm
andy
The secret of Zen in two words is, "Not always so"!
http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
Vermont Castings my first choice, jotul second, and mostly b/c I like the looks of the VC stoves better. No blowers etc, but those little fans are great at moving heat around. We have a VC Intrepid in the kitchen - it's about 90 in there during the winter, 75 in the room next to it, and 80 in the room above (there's a floor-thru grate where I put a little fan to pull more of the hot air up. Nice to come in to after working outside all day!
Check out Napoleon woodstoves. I have the 1400 pedestal model and it makes a 1600 Sq Ft, single story with ceiling fans very comfortable. Located 6400ft up in Arizona.
I did a bunch of research before I bought a stove for our cabin a while back.
Both cat and non-cat stoves can have low emissions. Non-cat stoves do it through air injection - there are tubes with lots of little holes in them at the top of the firebox, and the air they inject results in a very good burn. The downside is that the air injection is always on, so you can't damp down the fire as much as a catalytic stove.
Cat stoves also work well, though the cats are expensive, and I've heard that they may need to be replaced over time.
On the blower subject, blowers are good to generate lots of hot air if you're trying to warm up a cold house, but as others have noted, a ceiling fan is probably just as useful.
Oh, and one other thing - most codes require that stoves have outside combustion air.
I ended up with a Country Performa "flat top" stove which has worked out quite well. It burns amazingly clean - you can't see any smoke out of the chimney after it heats up.