I’m trying to generate ideas and am curious about what everyone’s setup is for their woodstoves.
I like the fireplace-converted-to-woodstove look, but many houses don’t have the fireplace to start with, so how do you deal with that without getting too out of character with the house?
jt8
“Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn’t do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover.” — Mark Twain
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First , you seem to have just passed by a greater point . In an older picture in a book I have it pictures a "Big Ben" sitting completely out on the hearth with most of the stove more or less inside the room. Of course if doesnt look as good as a stove set inside the cavity of a fire place. As a user of an insert my biggest problem if that the fan must be on to capitlalize on the maximum heat out put. I dont like fans at all with my lack of hearing except when DW is talking. <G> My first stove was the most efficient of a Warm Morning setting in front of a fire place that I had removed the hearth and layed a solid rock floor to accept it . The fire place had an old heatalator with fans installed. The fireplace it self put out 25 percent of the heat just from the smoke when the fans were asked to transfer heat when temps out side fell. That approach could have also been piped into different rooms separate of the existing duct system.
To give my idea of imput to your question I envsiona chimny built behind the wall just as a fire place has with a masonary wall backing . Some of the most useful I have seen are corner structures that offer two short walls that are 4 ft from the corner on each side built to hearth height or ceiling . The floor is built on 45% from edge to edge of 4 ft walls with a double mantle.
Or, the Oak fireplace surrounds that encompass a zero box could also surround a masonary miniture wall inside the surround.
I guess it all depends on the "style " of home .
Tim
Of course if doesnt look as good as a stove set inside the cavity of a fire place.
That is the classic setup for older houses with fireplaces, as this Jotul pic displays:
View Image
On older houses, the fireplace was as necessary as a furnace is to a modern home. But for the last 50 years (or more), the fireplace has been a luxuriy item, so doesn't show up on a lot of the houses I work on (I'm not in the "luxury" neighborhood).
This Woodstock Soapstone pic shows a free standing unit:
View Image
However, like a masonry unit, this can take up a lot of floor space.
This one looks to be a bit closer to the wall (plaster/drywall?). What is interesting, is that it looks like its just sitting on a tile floor, without a pad underneat or anything mounted on the back wall.
Would you consider this a safe setup, or is the heat going to transfer through the tile into the 3/4" subfloor and on into the joists with potential for a fire?
jt8
"Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover." -- Mark Twain
Edited 10/11/2005 2:32 pm by JohnT8
Edited 10/11/2005 2:35 pm by JohnT8
Perhaps the picture is for floor on grade ( concrete slab with tile over it).All I ever Needed to Know I learned in Kindergarten- Robt. Fulghum
John Im sorry , but I do not personally like the wood stove in the cavity as it looks assuredly like an after thought . [I did it my self statement] Just my small vote sir.
The very stylish woman is in an artists studio that encompasses the design of a ware house building built from a double wall brick older building which is the craze for renovating such space that is too old for many functions. Its a cheap way out for people like us to turn a near worth less building into a place of an Artist Studio Select. Its a lot of fun for some college students to use those places as well or the educated singles crowd some going for a doctorate degree! <G>
In that "design" rough is accepted and really a come on to show plumbing pipes and uncovered duct systems . Such a millionare tried it here for college students with a coffee house that only served healthy menu. A dadgum awsome set up that was really cool as this pic is showing the single pipeing going up a "ways" in the picture which by the way does not meet code.
I ended up shutting the job down and turning it into the state health department for many violations. The fines were going to be very heavy for that many infractions as they had abused the building codes as well for human habitation. They were going to be in deep stuff and we came to our own plan I devised . I gave them 30 days to remove everything they had done against code or take proceedings in the mouth. At that time they send a set of plans to the state health department and apply for a commercial permit from the building department . In other words , start all over. The state backed my decision not to proceed with fines but back my 30 day warning .
Measuring her at 5 feet tall in the pic , puts the vent pipe better than 6 feet and climbing which is not with in code of stapping every 6 ft.
But , I think the installation depics the style of room its in to make a fashion statement .
Tim
John - I believe the stove in question is a soapstone which has different clearances than a steel or CI unit, due to the heat retention. There are also heat shields that can be installed on the back of radiant stoves that reduce the clearance. If it's in the literature, it's likely (but, not definately) installed to code.
edit: Back in my woodstove installation days, we did a lot of custom pads (cement board with a wood trim and tile surface. That's probably what you're looking at.
Birth, school, work, death.....................
Edited 10/12/2005 6:52 pm ET by seeyou
edit: Back in my woodstove installation days, we did a lot of custom pads (cement board with a wood trim and tile surface. That's probably what you're looking at.
So can I put 3/4" subfloor, then 1/2" cement board, then tile down and sit a woodstove on that?
[edit] in one of these woodstove threads someone mentioned something about fireplace or woodstove drywall. I'm not familiar with that, any idea what they meant?
[edit-edit] With your creative copper ways, I'm surprised you haven't devised a copper surround for woodstoves.
jt8
"Holding on to anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one getting burned."-- Buddha
Edited 10/13/2005 11:41 am by JohnT8
Edited 10/13/2005 11:42 am by JohnT8
So can I put 3/4" subfloor, then 1/2" cement board, then tile down and sit a woodstove on that?
maybe - the rule I remember was two layers of non-conbustibles -
but the real kicker is the insurance companies - there are few that will insure houses with wood stoves - if they do, their specs are what matters -
"there's enough for everyone"
I think the tile would be the second layer.Birth, school, work, death.....................
in one of these woodstove threads someone mentioned something about fireplace or woodstove drywall. I'm not familiar with that, any idea what they meant?
I used to run into installation situations where the homeowner was sure drywall was fireproof. There are drywall products and installation methods that slow the spread of flame, but are not appropriate for woodstove installations to my knowledge. I've been out of the business for 20 years and there may be some new products out there that I'm not aware of.
With your creative copper ways, I'm surprised you haven't devised a copper surround for woodstoves.
I've made 'em. It's all custom work.Birth, school, work, death.....................
I've made 'em. It's all custom work.
Got pics?
I usually shun 'custom' like the plague, but a properly placed custom item or two can really make a statement. That's part of the reason I've kept copper in mind when I'm looking at houses. Its worth the extra expense if it gets a buyer excited.
jt8
"Holding on to anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one getting burned."-- Buddha
Edited 10/13/2005 5:38 pm by JohnT8
No pics - everything I've done in the last 10 years has been installed by someone else.
Too much copper on the interior turns a lot of people off, present company included.Birth, school, work, death.....................
Too much copper on the interior turns a lot of people off, present company included.
tut tut, and there I was planning the pressed copper ceiling and the copper wall tiles right behind the copper surround on the woodstove with the big copper kettle sitting on top... and the copper bar inlays between the tiles on the floor. ;)
He11, with my budget its more like, "here's a couple bags of concrete...go get creative."
jt8
"Holding on to anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one getting burned."-- Buddha
Copper is nice for some things
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
You passing samples around?
jt8
"Holding on to anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one getting burned."-- Buddha
Here's the deal on that question -The specs for floors are different than for walls.most stoves can have a fireproof SURFACE on the floor and not meet codes for a non-combustable assembly (counting subfloor and joists) because of the legs holding the fire chamber up and leaving air space where the convection currents there draw in cool air to bath the floor and keep it safer than a wall assembly.but a wall has to be non-combustable unless the stove itself has the rating and fireshields to allow the closer spacings. normal is 36", but some stoves can go 18" and installation af an additionall heat shield can drop that to 9" in some circumstances.The reason that a normal framed wall is not a non-combutable wall even when covered with non-combustable surfaces is that the heat will radiate through that nmaterial and when lumber reaches temperatures just below the flash point around 400 to 450°F it is changed chemically. The more times it is superheated like that, the more it is charcoaled ( there is another more correct word for it) and the lower the flash point is for that piece of lumber, so that eventually, it is easier for it to acheive spontaneous combustion and then the chimney effect in the wall will accelerate the flame.
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...without getting too out of character with the house?
I think you have to celebrate the 'elephant' in the room - discrete, stoves are not -
a central location for best heat effect, close to the door/backporch/woodbox for minimizing dirt/effort, synergent to the living space, because when it is fired, it does become the 'center' of the house -
if you can manage to place it 3' or more from a wall, then all you need is the hearth -
I think you have to celebrate the 'elephant' in the room - discrete, stoves are not -
I'm willing to embrace the 'elephant', and could probably talk a sig other into it, but the houses I work on are destined to be resold. So the woodstove doesn't have to be invisible, but something less than elephantine would be nice so that it doesn't scare off the non-woodstove people who might happen to look at the house.
jt8
"Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover." -- Mark Twain
<I think you have to celebrate the 'elephant' in the room>David, I always use "celebrate the joint" when folks want an awkward transition...but now I'm thinking we'll all smoke a joint, and then celebrate the elephant...that is good<G> "what's in a name?" d'oh!
your place or mine?
"there's enough for everyone"
You and Valerie stop by here first, we are a lot older and have set standards...besides, so have the elephants I deal with<G> "what's in a name?" d'oh!
John,I'm the new guy to the message board but like you I put a great deal of emphasis on what looks correct (historically and architecturally).I am having the same problem as you with the fireplace and woodstove thing....I love the fireplace , everything about it .I actually like splitting wood and going out in the freezing cold to retrieve an armful to stoke up the fire. I love the smell of the wood burning and the crackle of the fire.On the other hand I really love woodstoves,they heat incredibly well . I am particularily fond of the soapstone ones . I think they look great.I am building a Farm house to closly match the one I took down .I want everything about it to look old and "correct" ..At $6000-8000 for a fireplace I really have to wiegh out the return ,supposedly a gain of $10,000 value to the house .The wood stove soup to nuts in a masonary chimney is about half.......
..".Perfect is good enough".....a quote from a friends Dad
Yeah, I really prefer the woodstove over the fireplace. I usually put function over fashion, but try not to completely overlook fashion. A woodstove can be a very functional as well as attractive element in a room. So the trick is to take the functional woodstove and turn it into an eye-pleasing element.
IMHO, woodstoves aren't as commonly an 'ooh ahh' item as a fireplace is for the average folks who look at houses. I have NO idea WHY though. you can cuddle up next to the woodstove glass just as easy as the fireplace glass. And the stove puts out more heat without sucking all the heat out of the house like a fireplace does.
On a woodstove retrofit, the brick/stone surround (quasi fireplace look) is attractive, however you can run into real $$ in a hurry. As you pointed out, suddenly you're talking about thousands of dollars to create that attractive setting/setup for the stove. And personally, I think it's painful enough to have to pay $2k for a good stove without adding in the surround expense.jt8
"Holding on to anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one getting burned."-- Buddha
Did I miss it or did you reply about the stove sitting insde the fire place ? Whad you think?"
Tim
Did I miss it or did you reply about the stove sitting insde the fire place ? Whad you think?"
A woodstove that has been hooked to a fireplace has some advantages: Masonry thermal battery to absorb heat, a pre-built exhaust route (even if it needs a new liner/pipe), and likely a surround that can tolerate heat. It is cheaper to pipe and blockplate a fireplace than it is to create a whole new surround and exhaust route.
If the setup allows, I'd rather have the stove sticking into the room somewhat. IMO this allows more heat to radiate directly into the room (while still feeding the masonry 'thermal battery'). It also allows you to set stuff on top of the stove.
I'm not a fan of electric blowers/fans, but understand in some setups they are necessary. One of the many advantages of the woodstove is that you still have HEAT when the power/gas goes out. If it relies too heavily on the blower, then you have a reduced usage stove when the power is off. Granted, the power isn't going off that often, but that ONE time that it goes out when its -20F outside, you'll appreciate it!
The pure woodstove-fireplace inserts are OK, just not my first choice. But if they are basically an EPA woodstove made in the shape of a fireplace, then they meet the primary functional requirement of providing efficient heat.
I'm NOT a fan of gas fireplaces/stoves. Granted, they are fairly low maintenance, but they are not lowering my gas bill and are useless when the gas goes off. And then I've got another gas line to worry about. And at the top of my dislike rating are the VENTLESS gas stoves/fireplaces. Gawd, just seems like you're begging for grief there! Be it carbon monoxide, moisture buildup..whatever.
For all the hassle required with maintaining a woodstove and keeping it fueled, it remains one of the few ways you can directly heat your home in a self-sufficient manner. The corn-burners are OK, but I don't have friends asking me if I want corn after a storm goes through (same way with the pellet burners). Once you let folks know you're looking for wood, you can typically get it for free or next to free. Especially during the warm seasons. Pick it up in July. Split it, stack it, and it will be waiting for you in December.
Not that I'm an anarcist or anything, but I think there's nothing wrong with making sure that you and yours are going to be provided for in the unlikey event that the power goes off or the gas stops flowing or whatever. Heat in winter is a basic need. Like food and water. So keep the pantry and the woodpile stocked. :)
jt8
"Holding on to anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one getting burned."-- Buddha
John- you just hit on all of the reasons I love my stove. I never lost heat during power outages; which are not overly frequent, but frequent enough that I want a source of heat that is not dependent on moving electrons. (Especially in MD where Ice is always a threat)
The thing is dependable, no moving parts really to speak of, and it heats my entire 1600 sf house no problem.
I have until now been able to secure a plentiful supply of free firewood. (Except for the $100 to rent the splitter once a year and misc expenses for the saw)
I LOVE wood heat and a fire in the stove.
Even in years that I don't use it much, I would not give up my stove. Because you're right- as soon as I do, we'll have the ice storm of the century and my teeth will be chattering.
But as I mentioned in another thread, the era of easy to come by free firewood may be coming to a close with this increase in fossil fuel prices.
Try contacting some tree services in your area,they are always looking to get rid of wood,even if they sell firewood there is always a glut or backlog of wood that needs to be processed. Up by me I have some guys on standby.When I have the area cleared they can begin dropping off . There are many recources for inexpensive or free wood...just takes some imagination and handshaking....how about hardwood pallets from a factory or warehouse ?? I heated my house for free one winter just on oak pallets and I got $ for getting rid of them.....
Frugal isn't being cheap,its being efficient.....
Put the stove near a wall and place whatever is locally correct for you area, brick, river rock, slate, whatever on the floor and wall. the proper color will make it look like it is as old as the house and it was there the whole time. you can use black stove pipe for the inside, but the transition through the wall and the outside of the house must be the insulated SS.
"Put the stove near a wall and place whatever is locally correct for you area, brick, river rock, slate, whatever on the floor and wall."Absolutely and totally wrong, dangerous information there sir!Covering a combustable wall with rock or tile does not make it a non-combustable wall. Placing a wood burning stove closer to it than codes allow for a combustable wall can result in property damage, injuries, death, and lawsuits or negligent manslaughter charges for the installer.
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I made the assumption that the person I was telling the info. to had some common sense, unlike you. Of course it has to be built to certain standards. Do not presume that you are on top of the mountain looking down at the rest of us.
I don't presume anything. I am reporting facts. You gave damn bad advice, the kind that can burn a house down. Wood stove installations need to be done to code and simply slapping some non-combustable surfacing over a combustable wall will not instantly turn it into a non-combustable wall, so when you stick the stove up close to it like you recommended, the heat is trapped in the wall and turns the studs to charcoal gradually until they erupt in flame. Your advice has no common sense in it whatsoever. All it has is assumptions that are dead wrong and I'm glad to do whatever I can to keep somebody from ending up dead from your wrong advice.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Before this gets uglier, my advice was near a wall not up close. his original question was how to get it to look like it was always there and that was my objective. Code and safety is the common sense part.
So we agree that it should be as near as possible but no closer than code allows!
Good save.;)
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
I'm trying to generate ideas and am curious about what everyone's setup is for their woodstoves.I like the fireplace-converted-to-woodstove look, but many houses don't have the fireplace to start with, so how do you deal with that without getting too out of character with the house?
Had a similar situation at my home--I wanted fireplace, my better half didn't--and since a prime design consideration of the home was energy efficiency, the fireplace didn't really make sense (practically speaking, anyway). So I wanted a woodstove installation that had some of the feeling of a hearth (my grandparent's fieldstone fireplace was the archetype in my mind). The idea was to make this the center, literally and figuratively, of the home.
I hired the masonry out but did the rest myself. Stones are from the property. Here's the result:
<View Image
Edited 10/25/2005 2:04 pm ET by Megunticook
Edited 10/25/2005 2:06 pm ET by Megunticook
That's neat, I like it. How far up does the faux chimney go, just to the ceiling?jt8
"Real difficulties can be overcome; it is only the imaginary ones that are unconquerable. " --Theodore N. Vail
To the ceiling. Upstairs the chimney switches from block to exposed brick (we used some salvaged brick which adds a lot of character). I tell you, the radiation from that brick just about heats the upstairs (we've got major insulation going on in the place, so it doesn't take much).