Hello to all,
My wife would like a raised garden bed, what type of wood should be used and how high should it be?
Thanks in advance for the help, Turtleboy
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I'd use pressure treated if it's for decorative plants, though I know that some people wouldn't dream of using it. Cost of something like White Oak dictates that decision.
You might get experienced gardeners' responses if you post this in Over the Fence.
people around here use railroad timbers, stack to height.
at my local sawmill here in long island piece of 5/4 x 10 goes for 1.75 a bd/ft the thickness varies within an 1/8" and width are at least 1/2" proud. although the moisture content is very high anywhere up to 25% borders for a garden would be ideal . i myself use it for sheathing in my current project buy store it for up to 12 months and put it up 10-12% moisture. i buy 1000 linear and it lasts for the 9- 12 months depending whats on the schdule.......... i buy in the winter when prices and service (delivery& stacking)seem to better and they cut it up then and ,because business drops off and drying has been going on for two months and a little less imperfections cups ,bows, cracks have set in. but there is a high amount loss with load out of 1000 l/ft i loose 25% , but for raised planters and borders 15% would be more like it .......... happy gardening"expectations are premeditated resentments"
Edited 4/24/2005 3:04 pm ET by the bear
I'm surprised to learn that there are sawmills on LI. The high prices of real estate there are well known, so I had mistakenly thought it was all one massive residential real estate development.
Aside of that, you gave me an idea. I might look for some undried lumber at the nearby mills.
Actually LI is the largest producer of hops in the world. something like 95% of all hops is grown there.
Anywho, keep PT away from anything your gonna eat
now that is something i didnt know ....hops that is .... thanks"expectations are premeditated resentments"
Edited 4/24/2005 7:56 pm ET by the bear
actually there are three , one is on the national historic registry and a pain in the a$$ to deal with because of that accreditation. but one i live 5 miles away from actually markets itself as recycling plant and has two wood mizers , two cherry pickers. and deliveries with 48 hours notices can be delivered within' three days -shorter for deliveries under 1000 board feet- .
and here is a shocker at least for me , i pulled up last spring and talked Bob the owner /operator and there was a truck from quebec province and i figured there was some sort of delivery ....uh uh ... he was picking up cherry logs , and some other stuff, 12 foot sections and transporting them back to quebec. i was takin' back a bit about this... i remember years ago burying logs , and was always kinda bothered about it . now... its illegal, and there are certain tax breaks/write offs that go with it. and ya know i love wood ,i think it an amazing resource ,i'm know conservationnist . but i guess i've turned into a bit off a tree hugger..... go figure..........b"expectations are premeditated resentments"
Edited 4/24/2005 8:12 pm ET by the bear
I'd use pressure treated if it's for decorative plants, though I know that some people wouldn't dream of using it.
That'd include me. Hate the stuff. Our mills offer white oak, depending on grade, down to .50/ft, occasionally less. Our raised beds are 24-30" high and all have a substantial enough rail to sit or stand on. I had surplus red oak 6x timbers and used it for some. 5 yrs later it's still looking pretty good. No sapwood of course.
Once you get used to raised beds you won't want to go back. Between the beds is a great place to compost.PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
My wife had to have this also. I used PT 2x10s, the newer formula. Used 3 1/4" X 9 ceramic screws to tie them together, otherwise they will warp out of square and break a smaller screw. It was a pain, she needed so many of them. If you don't like PT, there is always cedar, or maybe really thick pine, which will rot of course.
Another option is available from Lee Valley Tools. In their garden catalogue is a "raised bed kit" - basically a set of steel clips which attach to a 2x4 on top and bottom, and support the sides which are precast patio blocks, the two foot square ones. 2x2's make a good height for sitting on the ledge, but other sizes of patio stones can be used too.
http://www.leevalley.com
Doc - The Old Cynic
Turtle,
Don't know how invested you want to get into your wife's raised garden, or how much time and grunt. But in our case, 12 years ago, I built a 12' x 18' raised bed vegetable carden, and since then lots of raised perrenial beds, using double stacked limetone blocks, each about 10"Hx10"Wx12"L; cost now here in C. Texas is around $110 a ton. They will be in place a long time past mine. Top shelf of the blocks is great too for placing various potted plants, and it's easy to edge grass around the perimeter of the beds. Zbalk
turtleboy...
i'd use PT 2x10, knocked together with 16d HDG nails..
this will raise the beds about 9"..
a nice size is 4x4 with enough room in between to run your mower.. just keep adding modules until you run out of room or have enough bedsMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
why not use metal edging....its cheap and easy...want decrotive? Use river rock but costly.
I've done dozens of raised beds for my veggie gardens.
Last one I did I used brick...I made a sunburst garden I came up with.
Center was round and higher and teird (for the hebs) then the triangle beds a few feet a way around it.
Really wasn't all that difficult.
Be well
####PS....funny story I probably shoulnt post but you know me.
Was growing some herb in the middle of my tomatoe plants....looks almost the same at first....cept they grew almost eight feet tall....We're working on my first house....I come home in my truck one day and see them sticking about two feet pver my six foot wood fence on a main road...so I tie the tops over with some string so you can't see em' from the road...one day, my guys and me are eating lunch...they're redoing the road....a giant truck comes down the road in front of my house painting the lines in the road...two guys on top doing the painting....####cop car in front and one in back cause theyre going slow.....I see them point over the fence...I ripped those suckers outta the ground so fast and was so pissed....cops come in about five minutes later and ask if they can look at my veggie garden.....I say sure, no problemo.......whewwwwwww.
Be well
a...
The secret of Zen in two words is, "Not always so"!
When we meet, we say, Namaste'..it means..
lol, andy
Ill have to show you some tricks to get at least 7 ft out of your tomatoes. Oh and I guess you could hang some red christmas ornaments from the others.
-zen
Roar! ain't toked a joint in a couple decades but remember a story about fooling the feds in their aerial surveillance for plants from the air.
Apparently a guy thought he'd be slick by hanging red Christmas bulbs from the plants to make them look like tomatoes from the air.
Worked till the wind blew a bunch off and broke open on the ground, reflecting silver.
Curious now the planes had to come in for a closer look. End of story.
be sublime
sobriety is the root cause of dementia.
I also dont know much about the consumer end, but Ive been growing 2500sq ft of vegetable garden and about 500 sq of herbs since I was thirteen, I think I could make the buds look like corn.
lol
-zen
If you have limestone pits in your area, just get a truckload or 5 of "rip-rap". Cheap, decorative, lasts forever, and maintenance free. Rip Rap is basically larger boulders that are big enough to cover a lot of territory on the wall in a hurry... but still small enough to handle without machinery (although a tree-dolly is VERY helpful).
Never been a fan of using wood... unless it is locust or similar timbers. The stuff used to treat the wood is nasty at best... toxic at worst. You have to maintain the stuff... replace it on a semi-regular basis... just not permanent enough for me.
Rock, on the other hand, is much harder to put in place at first... but will be worth it in the long run, IMHO.
And FWIW, rock can be cheaper if you source directly from the pits. Delivery will cost a few pennies... but catch a independent hauler that is willing to do the drops when he is called off for a day (site work running behind schedule, etc).... he'll be willing to do it reasonable (not cheap... "reasonable").
here's a good discussion on the topic from Over the Fence http://forums.taunton.com/tp-overthefence/messages?msg=5191.1
Consensus was cedar (which is the standard) or black locust (cheaper but harder to find)
No one likes PT, even the newer stuff is questionable for plants and gardening, particularly where you're going to come in contact with it.
This page from Lee Valley has some good stuff http://www.leevalley.com/garden/page.aspx?c=2&cat=2&p=44664
No one likes PT
<g> Creosote from RR ties is not much better.
Decades ago, in my time as a landscaper's flunky, we built beds with ties, and set an isolation membrane in the bed (black PE sheeting, IIRC). This was hammertacked to the top course of ties. We then used very long finish nails at an angle to trim the tops with rouch-cut western red cedar. The cedar was relatively long-lived exposed, and made a "user friendly" top surface for the beds.
Man, I hated wrestling RR ties; not much better was all of the swagger about who was best with a chain saw to cut the fool things (the loudest boasters always seemed to 'contaminate' (per the straw boss) the most area with sawdust.Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
The cresote may even be worse for you, healthwise. Can you still even buy it?
cresote may even be worse for you, healthwise.
If it gets liquid, and oozes, it burns rather nastily. My memory is that it has a thorough, but relatively simple MSDS sheet (caustic, skin burn, poison, & flamamble, IIRC)
Can you still even buy it?
Must, they are still turning out rr ties, power poles & harbor timbers in the stuff <g>. (I want to remember that creosoted driven pilings are still a preferred foundation system in New Orleans.)
The landscaper I worked for looked to have bought the entire MoPac stockpile of ties (sleepers for you UK educated types) when UP & MP merged. About a quarter acre 4-5' high's worth.
Now, in all fairness, the smell of hot creosote always makes me hungry for watermelon. This can be blamed on Six Flags. The original log flume in Arlington, Texas, was timbered up in creosoted lumber (was the 70's, and they could). Log ride was a good thing to take the heat off about 1500-1530. At the exit to the log ride was a watermelon stand. So, it's eleventy-hunnert degrees out on Saturday, so let's ride the log ride, then have some watemelon. Ah, the simple joys of life.Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
So, creosote = watermelon. Excellent story-
creosote = watermelon
Actually, just the "smell" of warm creosote. Not the sight, or anything else. Which can be odd at times.
Like down on a sun-warmed costal dock. Weirder for me is when the power poles along the fenceline get jsut the right amout of sun, and every trip oustide trips that memory.
Nowasdays, the hard part is finding a melon sweet enough to be worth it (after I find 2-3 more folk to help eat the fool thing <g>). And, yes, this is Texas, so I sprinkle salt on mine. Seasoned salt, that is (mine is homemade with a bit of dried red chilie).Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
Actually, I have a similiar type of trigger; I lived in Spain for a year (and loved it) and I realized that anytime I am walking around and end up on top of a hard sand path/road, I start thinking about Spain or blabbing off my mouth about it.
Most of the paths in parks in Spain are compressed sand, and it took me a while to realize the feel/sound always brought me back.
The smell of Schaefer beer brings me back, too, but to a different place which we won't talk about!
Do you grow any melons yourself? They are very easy, and they are always better from your own garden-
Edited 4/26/2005 4:06 pm ET by RickD
Do you grow any melons yourself? They are very easy,
Ah, true enough, they were like weeds in the last garden--and me with a brown thumb. In fact, they were growing where the ground cover was supposed to be . . .
Never really got big enough to not be jay or crow bait, though (think a watermellon only about lemon-sized, and the bluejays & mocking birds have already taken their fill . . . )
and they are always better from your own garden-
That's not the way I learned it <g>; sweetest mellons are always in somebody else's patch, and better in the middle of the night . . . Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
PT lumber leaching into the food chain is urban myth..
i'll stick to PT for my raised bedsMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Now they could use Trex or something like those composites but around here I use black locust. Dont bother doing a cost analysis of vegetable gardens tho cuz it could be disheartening. I love my vegatable and perennial beds but if i figured in pest control; mulch; soil admendments, bed liners, and god forbid "my labor" I probably would be better off bying stuff from William Sonoma or Harry n David. Just something about that dirt between ur fingers.
Around here, you can buy recycled plastic landscape timbers. Good stuff.
http://www.selectechinc.com/
If you don't mind potential contamination, use pressure treated. I wouldn't, except for non-edibles (i.e. flowers and shrubs should be fine).
If for eating - any kind of untreated wood will work, some just rot faster than others. Five years ago, I bought roughsawn pine 1x8's from a local mill and built eight 4x4 boxes from them for vegetables. They are still holding the dirt in, although the parts in contact with dirt are starting to disappear. I discovered this spring that my old boards are full of earthworms.
If you want them to last a long time - black locust is probably the best, but tough to find. It's said that if you put a stone on top of a black locust post, the post will outlast two stones. Other good candidates include white oak (NOT red oak, which rots faster than bread in a plastic bag), cedar, or cypress. These will all give a decade or two of service in contact with dirt.
I have a stack of 2x12 white oak which will most likely be my next boxes. I bought them for sill plates for a barn, and I won't use them all.
Thanks for all the advice, I'll try to find out what is available in cedar at a couple of places in the area.
Thanks again, Turtleboy
A few years ago I formed up some raised beds in concrete. They're about 2-1/2" thick and about 12" high.
Stripped the forms then troweled on a skim coat of portland tinted with carbon black.
Coated/sealed the inside face to prevent leaching into the planting beds, as well as to prevent water/moisture from migrating from the beds out through the concrete.
Then backfilled.
They look great (according to me) and are more durable than I though they'd be. No cracking even after going through several New England winters and the resulting heaving process.
I'll try to post a pic or two tomorrow.
I'm with you and Rich. Once you're sure where you want them, masonry makes a lot more sense to me than any kind of wood.
Sorry it took so long and sorry to not be able to email these directly to all that asked.
Top pic shows the concrete raised beds partially complete. They're about 2- to 2-1/2" thick and about 12" high. Well-compacted base. Rolled an asphaltum-based coating on the inside (the dirt side) of the concrete to keep moisture from the bed from wicking onto the concrete.
Then made a simple portland/sand mix colored with carbon black and troweled it on, maybe a shy 1/4" thick, leaving a bit of texture.
Bottom pic shows the completed beds.
These have been through several New England winters. No problems whatsoever.
Still look great. To me, at least.
I love the smell of creosote in the morning.
It smells like.....victory!
Actually, check out FH Summer Projects Magazine - story on prefab building blocks.
Might be a bit more than you wanted to spend and it might be a bit more work than you wanted to invest, but it would sure give you one classy, permanent raised bed garden. The article has a photo of a tree surround done this way.
No reason a rectangular, or any other shape, garden couldn't be done this way.
Griff
Here's a trick we use to build wood retaining walls, and I've used for raised beds myself: Use at least some nominally rot resistant wood - redwood, cedar, or treated. Line the inside with 60 mil waterproofing - jiffy seal type. There are retaining walls that I built 15 to 20 years ago this way that are still going strong. I have a friend who builds decks and he's saving all of his Trex shorts for me for some raised beds, although support posts will need to be very close together. If appearance isn't an issue, hay/ straw bales will do the trick for a year or two at a lick, depending on where you live, and thats the fastest cheapest way to do it/
Garden bed
You have many options, one of them is Cedar. That is the best option for garden beds as well as it is naturally resistant to insects. It will enhance beauty of your garden. Another one is Recycle lumber, which is very popular and new option. It gives your garden a modern look and available in various colour.