Just got a request for 30 generators.. the customer is trading in old generators ( for legal and liability reasons) with almost no hours on them.. they are 10 KW diesel powered that are 20 plus years old..
While I might put one in my house as a standby generator I’d still have 29 left..
I know that most framing contractors have one 4000 watt gas powered generator and one gas powered air compressor.
I was thinking of putting the generator into a trailer with an electric air compressor and selling the whole package..
The diesel would be a lot quieter and more durable than the typical gas engine one plus it would cost a lot less to keep it fueled up..
is there a market for this? How much over the cost of the trailer would someone be willing to pay for the diesel generator and aircompressor?
(as much as a gas powered unit would cost? less? more?)
Replies
I'd be more open to just picking parts like this up individually, and making my own...my way. AAMOF, I am in the midst of just this kind of a project, trailer is almost ready, and I am hunting a big generator ... but you are somewhere's up north, right?
Keep in mind the fuel consumption on the big ones--mine will be set up with the big 10-15k diesel, plus my old 2k honda for the little things -- it'll run all day long (it's hooked to the 30+ gal. tank in the trailer).
you could stick them on ebay?
There might be a market among dome builders. Never know. They're usually on site right after the excavators and don't always have utilities. Diesel for the inflators. What size compressor? If you want, I can help you with a place to list them...
This is the usual state bid kinda deal.. I'll need to do the whole thing at once rather than piece it out.. I've been involved in partial deals in the past and usually what happens is some sell right away and some sell a bit later and sure enough you'll be selling some of these five years fom now! the time involved ruins any chance of profit..
If I do it I'll need to line up a loan and buy the lot which could put me in a bind..
My main issue is would someone see it as an old but extremely low hours (most are under 100 hours) diesel generator. or would people worry about the age of the units?
My main issue is would someone see it as an old but extremely low hours (most are under 100 hours) diesel generator. or would people worry about the age of the units?
frenchy, it all depends on whether you are buying or selling - I can't offer any feel for the size of the market, other than i've never seen a generator of this size offered in a portable configuration (maybe they are, dunno) which suggests that it's not a high demand item - -
you might consider ag as a possible market - confinement operations/milking parlors have to operate no matter what, but I'm guessing they have plans in place already -
doesn't sound like an easy way to make money to me..."there's enough for everyone"
It all depends on cost and parts availability. If it's easy to get parts & service, and you can sell them for an attractive price, I'd think they should sell pretty quickly as home backup systems, especially in rural areas. I don't know about using one for jobsite power - that would depend a lot on weight and bulk.
Dave
Parts are available, but since they are large diesel generators designed for emergency back-up where they might need to run unattended for two weeks or more they would be heavy..
I don't believe there is much of a market for them as standby generators. Talking to others in the field that field has been bog slow since the Y2K scare.. just about everyone who really would buy a back-up generater did so at that time..
Back-up generators are those wouldn't it be nice ideas but almost never practical from an economic basis.
We have some pretty weird weather here in central NC (hurricanes, ice/snow storms, tornadoes), so back up generators are pretty hot. Most of the rural new construction are putting in at least a 10k standby system.
Every once in a while we'll rent a big one when we can't get power to a site. Most builders already have compressors. I don't see a whole bunch of pluses on owning a trailerable unit. How much would you have to get on a stationary unit? Ship 'em down here<G> Don't worry, we can fix that later!
Go look at the price of a Hionda 4000 watt generator. add frieght. not very attractive as just a generator huh?
I won't run my building stuff on any 4000KW generator, especially bad for compressors.
You stockpile those babies and wait til our next hurricane, I'll come get 'em and take some pics of your house<G> Don't worry, we can fix that later!
My norm is to think outside the box.. large heavy units like this are not ordinaryly used for framing or home contractors.. They buy cheap little portable units and let them hammer away untill they fail at which time they replace them..
Just one Honda generator of 4000 watts is more than I expect to get for these units. But to make them attracktive I'd need to put them in a trailer h strong enough to carry them and all the tools/ladders etc. guys usually caryy with them.. Since it's so powerful one of the advantages is that you could run a decent size electric air compressor without any surge problem. (you also could have both single and three phase voltage out of them..) a gas powered air compressor is relatively expensive compared to an electric one which would further add to the attractiveness of the package..
New units like this sell for around $13,000.00 (and you already know what a Honda generator and 7 CFM aircompressor sells for)
What I'd need to do is make the unit attractively priced so the age of the unit becomes a non-issue..
If you were looking to start up a framing company and needed this equipment what whould you be willing to pay for ,...
an enclosed trailer, a diesel generator, an air compressor.
Frenchy -
I'm an electrical engineer here in Minneapolis and I spec out generator sets quite often as a part of my job, so I have a few thoughts.
You said these generators have both single phase and three phase outputs...what's the three phase output? 120/208, 120/240, 277/480? 120/240 three phase is sort of obsolete these days, at least around here, so if that's what they are it may limit their usefulness (there are still places that have 120/240 service, but Xcel Energy stopped installing new services at that voltage some time ago.)
Are the single phase and three phase outputs both available at the same time, or do you have to switch from one voltage to the other? Sometimes these things are set up so you have different amounts of power available at the different voltages, which may affect how useful they are for a particular application. For instance, they may have a full 10kW available on the three phase output but less than that at single phase. Look at the circuit breakers on the outputs.
Do they have weatherproof enclosures so you can use them outside? Do they come complete with fuel tanks, batteries, mufflers, etc. so they're ready to run or will you have to provide those things separately?
Do they have cables and connectors on the outputs, or panelboards with branch circuit breakers, or anything like that? If not, that stuff will have to be added.
Are they name brand gensets, like Ziegler/Cat, Olympian, Onan, Katolight, etc? People will be more interested in buying them if they are, plus parts and service will be a lot easier - I had a client a few years ago who bought a Minneapolis-Moline generator off a government surplus sale; it had hardly any hours on it and ran great, but if it ever breaks he's out of luck.
Are we competeing on the same bid?
Nope, no personal interest here, so don't worry about that.
Most of my work is in designing municipal water treatment and wastewater treatment plants, so the generators I deal with are new ones, usually in the range of 50kw - 250kw.
Do you work over at Ziegler? Have we met when I worked there? Your name has a familar ring to it..
I've never worked FOR Ziegler, but I've worked WITH them quite a bit on generator projects - I'm usually on the phone a couple times a week with someone over there to get pricing or to double check the sizing of a generator or to check on active projects, that kind of stuff.
I work for Kaeding and Associates, and my last name is Stephens if those ring any more bells. We're an engineering consulting firm. We were partnered with Ziegler and their subsidiary ZTR a few years back, doing a lot of co-generation projects at landfills around the country -- parking a row of gensets on top of the landfill and running them off the methane gas coming out of the ground.
I hang out here at Fine Homebuilding because I've been reading the magazine for years, and I live in a 1913 Colonial in south Minneapolis that's been one renovation project after the other.
Edited 4/23/2004 2:30 pm ET by Stuart
That's where I met you!.. are they still using those converted diesel engines to run the methane generators in land fills? Did they ever solve the spark plug issue?
A few years ago during the electrical crunch here in California people and companies were buying back up generators. Once again the media is mentioning a crunch this year. Perhaps there is a market for your equipment.
Peace,
Martin Heads I win, tails you lose.
I've tried to sell trade in generators as back up generators in the past without any success.. The last batch I just gave to a misionary group.
Homeowners want either state of the art high tech,modern, new, don't touch a thing and the lites stay on .
Or they want something so cheap you can sell the engines as cores for what they are willing to pay..
Back-up generators are one of those neat sounding cool things that in reality cost an arm and a leg and need too much attention..
They are far from the cheapest source of electricity and most of them struggle hard to keep a home powered for a week!
Frenchy,
Did you pass up on the opportunity?
Jon Blakemore
My bid went in but the trade in I allowed was so low as to probably take me out of the running..
Last time I wrote a bid on this stuff, I was beat by $85.00 each and My bid had only $100.00 profit per unit.. (I'd hoped to make it up on marketing the used units)
So Frenchy, cut to the chase here...
How big are these things, what do they weigh & what do you want for one as is where is?
Joe H
Joe
They are big John Deere powered units that probably weigh close to 5000# each. I know who'll get the bid because they have instructions to "buy" the business (they profit from service work and parts sales)
My bid has to show a profit on it's own.. I found a Deere dealer willing to give me a good price on the power units and take all I have off my hands.. The price would be over $ 2000 per unit to equal his offer.
As far as I know those things are still running. Haven't heard anything about them for a year or two, though.