I’m making a mid-life career change, looking to turn my handyman skills into my new paycheck. I’d appreciate honest and frank feedback from this board about what I should expect when I try to find a job.
I put together a “brag book” showing my woodworking projects (I currently am a self-employed but woefully underemployed cabinet and furniture builder), and I spent some time today cobbling together something that is vaguely similar to a resume. My problem is, I can’t list past employers in the trades since I haven’t held an actual job in the trades. I used to be in highly specialized software development, and those skills won’t help land a job doing interior carpentry.
However, I’ve owned homes for many years and since I was a wee lad, I’ve been swinging a hammer, soldering lead pipe, etc. So I put on my resume what skills I feel good at–and was honest enough to say which ones I’m not as experienced. My brag book includes some old pictures of a deck I built, but the rest is all cabinetry and furniture.
My “resume” is at http://home.comcast.net/~paulchapko/BldgResume.htm
If you were looking for more help, what would your response to my resume be? If you would hire me, what wage range should I expect (I’m in central Jersey)?
Thanks in advance. If you want to see some of my woodworking to better judge my “job application,” it’s at http://home.comcast.net/~paulchapko
So there’s no confusion, this posting is not a request for employment. I’m only looking to see what kind of reaction I should expect if I were to ask.
Thanks in advance.
Replies
Ok, wht kind of job are you going for? I think your resume lists way too many trades. And I hope the "not yet" on the last line is a joke that won't be on the final resume.
And what are you going to do with the resume? Mail it to prospective gc's? Mail it to HO's?
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
I'm most comfortable with interior carpentry, but enjoy doing general remodeling work. The long list of trades is meant to show I'm handy at more than just carpentry, which should be valuable if a contractor is looking for someone to do punch list work.
My intention is to call GCs advertising for help and to send it or walk it over to them.
And yes, the last word is a joke--one my wife suggested. Got to have a sense of humor...Recommending the use of "Hide Signatures" option under "My Preferences" since 2005
Willing to relocate?
What's competitive? Be realistic and specific about compensation.
Otherwise, looks attractive.
Sure Mark, I was willing to relocate from St. Louis out here to Jersey...don't think I'd go back, though. I like oceans.
As far as salary, I don't know what is realistic--I hear anything from $12/hr to $35/hr to $55-65 for the "really good finish carpenter." That's a heck of a range to figure out. What do you think is realistic?Recommending the use of "Hide Signatures" option under "My Preferences" since 2005
I don't know what is realistic--I hear anything from $12/hr to $35/hr to $55-65 for the "really good finish carpenter."
Well, the $55-65/hour range is what you could charge out to a client if you were a self-employed finish carpenter- you won't get that as an employee here in central NJ.
I think the "how much" question will depend quite a bit on "where" in central NJ you are, and who you end up working for. We've got a big demographic swing in what's considered "central" NJ- from areas of Woodbridge where houses are around $300k and companies like Woodbridge Builders may pay you $15/hour (because they aren't selling high-end craftsmanship), to areas like Westfield or Princeton, where the houses run easily over $1,000,000 and some owners are willing to pay for quality ("some" being the operative word there.....lol).
I'm in Iselin myself, so I'm more familiar with the guys who work around here. If you're in the area and would like some names, let me know.
Ohhh....and if you are going to hand out resumes, drop the "yet" off the end- I know you said it's "humor", but some potential employers won't see it that way.
Bob
Pondfish, I didn't look at your resume, as they mean very little to me. You say you have some woodworking skills and you want to break into the trades. That's all I need to know on background. I've never written a book so all of this is off the top of my head. And my mind has been expanded by some harvest from my garden, so I might just be rambling.
Make up your mind what YOU want to do. If you want to do interior finish work, then decide that and move in that direction. Focus your thinking in that area. Don't mail any resumes to anyone, or make any phone calls. Get in your vehicle and start going around to job sites. Get out and ask if the builder is around. If he is, shake his hand and tell him who you are, and tell him you have some woodworking experience, are thinking about changing careers, and ask if he has an opening you might fill, or if he knows anyone who does.
Do that enough times, and you'll find the man you're looking for. He'll know by looking at you, by the way you carry yourself, and look him in the eye, that he'd like to give you a chance. Builders are always looking for someone they can train. Atitude and willingness to learn will carry you a long way.
Honestly, if you're serious about this, get rid of the resume and whatever else you scrapped together. Put a foot in the road and get out and meet some builders. On the job, not at meetings. Wear work clothes. Look like you want to work. That means more than any kind of portfolio you can put together. Don't forget, this is the real world, and you're not bullsh*tting anyone, so don't even try.
IMHO
Allen in Boulder Creek
Excellent advice, and close to what I'm thinking. It's also easier to find someone working local by going over to the local job site, eh?Recommending the use of "Hide Signatures" option under "My Preferences" since 2005
Moondancer is 100% correct. Nothing else I could add. Do it.
DG/Builder
Hey fish,
I agree with the posts on working the "streets". I've hired probably a dozen or two guys and never seen a resume. You do some nice furnature work and you said you do cabinets so i assume you got a decent shop a probably a good bit of trim finish tools already so it seems like a good place for you to start. I hired a 22 year old guy (college student in engineering)
and was way into rock climbing, he was worth every penny for timber work, climbed framing like a jungle gym, amazing ! The point being you have the tools/skill for finish work so go.
You have a decent portfolio of your work so your level of detail could very well be what a GC is looking for on some nice custom jobs.
Ask what you think you are worth, don't short yourself. Here, there is a shortage of truly skilled builders and pay well for guys that perform, cause there is not much else to choose from.
Oh, yeah ! Mark all your tools as obscene as you can, nothing pisses me off more than a sub's helper walking around with the screwgun I've been looking for for 20 minutes.
(oh, I thought it was so and so's gun....)
Good luck man : )
Moondancer is very correct in that you'll get a job based on your initial face to face visit with the guy you want to work with. If you look like a carpenter, talk like a carpenter and can spell out in a few short minutes what you can do to make him money you're in good shape. For better or worse that's the way the construction industry works.
Personally, I'd call as many GC types as you can find and simply ask if they are looking to hire a finish carpenter. This is quick and easy, taking no more than 30 minutes to go through 30 contractors. If they aren't, ask if they know of another contractor that is. If they are don't send a resume or drop one by their office, or even offer to meet them at their office, ask when you can meet at the job site. You need to see the type of projects they're working on.
Then, if you haven't found at least a few that want to meet you, start driving and ask around.
Keep in mind that as a potential finish carpetner you need to focus 100% on that, so don't bring up electrical, plumbing, etc. other than to simply explaining that you have a working understanding of those trades.
If you forget everything else, simply focus the conversation on what you can do and want to do, not what you've done.
In finish work, just as with carpentry in general, there are a number of things that have to be fast or projects will drone on forever. If you're naturally relaxed and easy going it might help to at least act a little quicker and high energy.
Dress the part. I wonder about guys who show up in street clothes. Even if your personal style is something else, simply dress like a stereotypical carpenter. It's hard to go wrong with light workboots, carhart pants, t-shirt, carhart jacket and a baseball cap. We're used to working around people dressed just like this and it places you in the "carpenter" category.
While many finish carpenters work well with tennis shoes and blue jeans when I see them on a carp with little experience it makes me think maybe this guy is a carpenter and maybe this is just a hobby and he's not serious about it.
As far as talking like a carpenter, use the language that is common in the trades in your region, not necessarily what you think sounds right. One guy used to say "moldings" instead of "trim." "We're going to work on moldings today." It obviously placed him either from another country, back east, or he's an inexperienced yoyo and doesn't know what he's talking about. Turns out he was both from back east and a yoyo. (no offense to our eastern friends).
As far as acting like a finish carpenter, you want to be reliable, clean, easy to work with, high energy, understand the speed-quality issue and when to lean to either, have good tools, and good judgement. If you don't know something you'll want to ask how they usually handle the situation.
If you have a miter saw, portable table saw and a few other good quality tools sticking out the back of your truck it gives yet another clue that you are serious about the trade and ready to go to work.
Finally, it is common in the industry to give you a trial period of a week or two to show your work. Unlike other professions where they go deep into your background and want to know all the details about every job you've every done and then hire a guy, construction is all about what you can do for me--right now, today. In a sense it matters little what your background has been. That is the entire reason so many new hires are done with little need for a resume. The trial period also gives the boss a way to judge your worth against the other carpenters.
For an employee I don't see even exceptional experienced finish carps making more than $25/hr. in the rocky mountain region unless it's a luxery area such as the ski towns with their higher cost of living. $15 an hour is much more common for most, with the better ones getting $18-$20. When they ask how much you want per hour, simply say you're not expecting more than anyone else on the crew with your skills and wait till after the trial period to see how you fit in to negotiate a final wage.
The more money you make for the GC, the more you're worth. Period. It's so important to really understand this that you might consider tatooing it on your hands. Many carpenters, most laborers, and a few subs just don't understand this concept.
Within 30 minutes of reading this if you will get on the phone and start calling there will probably be 2-4 guys who agree to meet you at their job sites for an interview, and you will probably get hired on the spot by at least one of them if you walk and talk like a carpenter.
Good luck,
Don
Pondfish, I wish I had read the resume before I read your post. Your post tells more truth about your experience than your resume does.
It's been my experience that guys from all walks of life will attempt to enter into our trades by claiming that they are experienced at the trades. Sometimes, guys try to claim experience by osmosis....because their grandfathers were in the trades. It's so commonplace that we have come to expect it.
You aren't going to fool anyone that has been at it awhile.
You do run the risk of pizzing someone off, if they are a bit sensitive about their own training. For instance, I served a full apprenticeship to learn about Carpentry, but you claim to know about it without working fulltime, nor taking an apprenticeship up. Do you see the potential for causing anger and resentment?
Your best bet is to just tell the story that you told in your opening post and offer your services as an apprentice to anyone that will hire you. If you are worth your salt, you'll get hired and you'll quickly move up the payscale.
One thing that certainly impressed me was managing 70 people in a large company. That skill alone would cause me to want to have a long serious discussion with you. My biggest fear about hiring you would be the wage issue. I don't like hiring guys that need training that want to start at CEO wages. The reverse would be true. You wouldn't want to hire a carpenter to be your assistant CEO either.
blue
Off the particular question, but:
It is certainly hard to determine payscale. You probably need a certain amont of money to keep your head above water.
In your job search, if you find someone you would like to work for, tell them you realize you are untested and references for the work as applied for are not avaliabe. You could suggest a trial week or two at a reduced rate, with a request for what you need or what you think you are worth to the employer after the trial period (if he determines you are of that value). You could also ask that if the employer determined you are worth more than the trial period wage, he compensate to that amount for hours worked during the trial period.
I did a reverse of this (as an employer) when we did lots of in house work. I also ask applicants who told me they were framers to take some of our materials and build a set of matching sawhorses in a location where I could watch them build. If they had tools and wanted a frame carpenters wages they had to build the horses with their own tools, hand drive the nails on one horse and use our nailguns on the second. (I am fortunate that some of the bozo applicants did not shoot themselves) This, along with the reduced wage trial period was a good filter.
What is wrong with the highly specialized software development job market these days? Why change horses in mid stream?
As a side note, my friend of mine told me his employer used to run an ad in the Austin paper: "Frame Carpenrters Wanted / No bimbos, bozos or bafoons need apply."