Hey everyone!!
I realize some of you may think this a rather stupid question, but as the old saying goes – “The only stupid question is an unasked one!”
My wife and I want to build our next house and would really like something that is fairly unique in style and yet within our budget. After perusing some of the blueprints here, I was wondering how you would figure out whether a house was within your budget before shelling out the $1000+ to buy the bp?
Thanks for any help!!
D.
Replies
You are right in stating the stupid question is that one that never got asked, but unfortunately your questions are going to start a whole big argument over a sqaure foot bid without seeing the print first. You will find many contractors not willing to give you a guestimate, because many have been burned by the practice in the past. If you can find something of a similar size and quality in your area for sale new by the builder, you probably have a starting place for price, and it will go up from there. What you need to do is get a square foot price ESTIMATE , and realize that their are a LOT of unknowns to be discovered when the exact lot and plan are chosen. Which leeds to another problem, do you have a lot to fit the house to, or are you going to pick the house then find a lot that will for sure hold it. Footprint size and shape, setbacks, height restrictions are just a few of the potential problems that must be addressed. Keep a good sense of humor, and a calm methodical approach and it can be very rewarding. Have fun
Dan
I think you have your priorities wrong.
A home is the most expensive thing most of us will own. It makes sense then to make certain that it is the wisest decision we make. while style is important, in the opinion of experts, the single most important thing about a home is it's location.
Buying a home just because it's the right style is kinda like marrying a girl because she has a pretty dress.
First find the nicest neighbor hood you can, or should I say the place where you'd most like to live. Once you have that found, then find out what will fit. It does no good at all to try to build a two story where it can't be built or a rambler where that can't be built. Everyplace has rules, maybe they don't apply, maybe they aren't enforced, and just maybe you can go right ahead. Find out first (I didn't and it took me 14 years of compromise and redesign to get to build my home) then if you have the pictures/ drawings /sketches of the home and maybe sent for the study plans (study plans are a more detailed but not complete set of plans usually good enough to get estimates), bring them around to builders.
Listen carefully, very carefully to what they say. Some builders only build homes they've built before since they know what is involved. There are some who won't touch plans unless they have somebody who can come out and answer questions. There are some who will build anything you want, the only question is money. There are a few who can glance at a set of study plans and build you what you want at a reasonable price.
Those guys usually don't have an office (except the kitchen table or the hood of the slightly ragged pickup). They have busted fingernails and usually dirty clothes. You won't find their add in the glossy magazines, in fact finding them will probably be the toughest part of the building process. Evan here there are good-uns' and bad ones. don't do anything without checking referances. Little trick here, when they list referances, check for gaps. They should have a list of every home they've built and the owners. It may be two or three homes a year if they are real small but if so then you should see owners listed for the past decade. if they only keep a list of a few, it makes you wonder what happened to the others, maybe they are the ones who will warn you away. If they only keep records for a couple of years,will they forget about you in that time too?
As for price, previous advice is good. drive around looking at new homes that are close to what you want. Don't worry that you want a triple garage and this one has a double, or it doesn't have the dinning room you want etc. Spend several weekends looking, guess what, you can now estimate within a few percent what your new home will cost.
There is no magic per square foot number that will plug in. Nor will anyone want to give you budget numbers or a rough estimate etc.
In a country where we can find out the price of anything with a computer, homes aren't that way. while there are tremendious varibles, the industry isn't anywhere near a standard price for anything.
Finally go rent the video, Mr.Blandon builds his dream home, with Cary Grant. you may as well know what you're getting into...
I take it from your post that you're thinking about buying one of those "canned" prints out of a plan book?
Don't give in to the dark side! Those prints are horrible. Poorly drawn, and all but useless. Take the page out of the book to a real architect and have them draw it up. Those books are only designed to sell blueprints. Once they have your money, they don't care if you can build the house or not.
I absolutely HATE those prints, but we get them sent in to bid all the time. First thing the homeowner does is make the tiny garages bigger. Typically they're just 20 X 20 or so. Then they move the left side out 2', and make this room or that room bigger. Almost everyone I've talked to who orders out of a book is seriously disappointed with the plans after they get them.
It also bugs me that they're almost without exception drawn with stick framing in mind. And we all know that only sick, twisted builders who squeeze their toothpaste tubes in the midlle stick frame. (Just kidding, guys) The problem is that they typically have a forest of posts in the basement. So the homeowner comes in and says: "Can you re-design this house so I only have a couple of posts?" I get to spend hours re-engineering the dang things only to have the homeowner say: "No way can we afford this - I had no idea it would be so expensive."
O.K., so maybe I unloaded a bit too much here. But I genuinely do HATE canned plans, and don't recommend them at all.
Lost your cat? Look under my tires.
"ake the page out of the book to a real architect and have them draw it up."
Can't do that legally due to copyrights.
You are creating a work derivated from another orginal work.
They would have to go to the architect with the "ideas" of what they want and describe them to the architect.
You're probably right that it's illegal. But it's also done all the time.
Around here, it's not uncommon for people just to use the page out of the book for their "blueprint". Or they'll bring in the page from the book and want a quote on trusses. Best of all is when they bring in 2 of them - They want the floor plan from one print, and the elevation from another and ask: "Can you make this house look like that one with this floor plan?"
I still miss my ex...but my aim is getting better
"Can you make this house look like that one with this floor plan?"
Do you point them to the stack of plans for 5,000 sq ft starter home for $50 a sq. ft.
Do you point them to the stack of plans for 5,000 sq ft starter home for $50 a sq. ft.
No, I generally try to be nice to them, and help them out where I can. I frequently get the question: "How do you think that will look?" I try to avoid answering that one, since it can be so subjective. I try to steer folks away from expensive plans if I know they can't afford it. But they generally don't listen.
Two things are necessary for important tasks: A plan, and not quite enough time
Granted, I am a bit biased (I'm an architect).... I have only seen a couple of the stock plans in my career. I think that the money savings would be blown rapidly dealing with all the changes and modifications listed above. If you are planning to live in the home for a while, wouldn't it make sense to have a home designed for the way you live, suited for the site? I often have clients do some research, finding photos of homes in magazines or plan books of styles of homes that they like. We then use those images to develope the look and feel of the new home. Please at least talk to some local architects, look at examples of their work, talk to builders for recommendations. I think you will be better off in the long run.
Rich, you might be in a position to kill all the stock plan companies deader than Caesar's ghost. Look thru your existing work to find some plans that could readily be modified to be generic. Toss your generic versions out onto the internet as .DWG files -- not in the public domain, but under conditions sorta like the GNU and Linux guys use. Anybody would be free to build your designs as-is, or to modify them. But if they modify or add anything, they're required to post their version under the same conditions. If you start with something that was actually built, you couldn't do worse than the stock plan companies, and successive iterations of people contributing their changes would iron out the code and buildability issues. Soon the best available stock plans would be free, and they'd be variations on your designs. There'd be thousands of them built, and the stock plan companies would starve.... Sound like a plan? ;-)
-- J.S.
Probably going against the grain here, but in my experience for a mid-priced middle class home...say two/three thousand feet you're builder should be able to design/build your house for you. That's what the word custom means. IMO
I've built houses from those mag prints, but I always just use them as a guide and figure the particulars myself. I draw up the prints to mimic the mag drawing...include all the little things that the homeowner wants and print them out. Five hundred dollars......to me it's just a part of the package. I build almost always from my own prints.......no surprises and if there are I can't bitch cause it's on me.
The secret for a homeowner is to find a guy who knows about structure/loads/mechanicals etc........
If the house is huge and out of the norm and you have the loot....hire an architect. If you're strapped for cash hire a guy like me.(not ME cause I'm retired) A carpenter/builder who builds hands on... one at a time....who knows his #### and don't mind holding your hand throughout the entire love/hate relationship. There are fast carpenters who care..... there are slow carpenters who care more.....there are half fast carpenters who could care less......
IMHO
most architects and designers work in phases;
Conceptaul drawings
Prsentation Plans
Working drawings
Often, the plans from a book are someplace between concept and presentation, lacking the detail of actaull working drawings.
I also see how often a client will hire an architect to prepare plans and then quit paying himn at about that point to save maoney, telling him that they are going off without him or they hirerd him by the hour in the first place. Then they present a builder with these unfinalized plans and let himn do the dressing work. One of the main reasons I have progressed to doing design/build is because I was so often expected to make concept drawings work which generally meant a complete re-design. If I'm doing design work, I'll get paid for it and have some control over the process.
Excellence is its own reward!
Wow!! There's a lot to think about!! Thank you all very much for the replies on this one (sorry for the late response.. ;) We aren't at the actual building stage yet (might be a while) but I am doing the research to be prepared.
We will definitely be picking the lot first, then looking at a design which we like, that suits the area. I have been on some of the builders' web sites that are available, and some of their work is actually quite good! We may end up going for one of the homes they've built before - architects are just too damn expensive! ;)
Thanks again,
D.
Sorry to kick a dead horse here,
But are archetics really that expensive or is it that they seem expensive? I know a lot of them earn less than $35,000 a year here in a town where a Mc Donalds manager makes more than that.
It may be that you're afraid they will " sell" you something you don't want or make your life difficult or complicated. Matbe you want this cute little cottage look (or whatever) and your afraid he will convince you to go all modern and wierd.
Guess what, most will not charge for the first meeting, so if you don't like his designs, tie or the way he talks you can get someone else. Ask up front, explain your fears (OK concerns) and try a couple before you commit.
It helps if you have a concept of the design process. No you won't need to go to school for 4 years, just go to the library and check out a couple of books on designing your own home. I like the one that had the bubble diagrahm. Basically you draw a bubble and label it kitchen, bathroom, bedroom etc. No size no drawings etc. just those rooms. shove them around and think about things. for example is the kitchen too far to haul groceries? you don't like the kids bedroom right next to yours for privacy and noise reasons? Do you want your guests to come into the living room or a hall? A good achectic will cover all those thousand details and it will probably be the same cost when everything is taken into consideration.
Notice I didn't talk about style at all.
Ask the company for the names of two people who built
using those plans. Call them and ask the construction
costs and major problems.
I just finished a home built from a set of Southern Living
plans. Nice look, expensive plans. Not the slightest
consideration in the plans for mechanicals. It was ####royal pain in the posterior to get the mechanicals done.
Added many $ thousands and still had to add chases not
called for in the plans. Still had to go to an engineer
for many details. Beams not dimensioned, etc.
Cheaper than architect-drawn plans, but not much. Some
charge a fixed percentage of the cost, some work hourly.
A couple thousand extra on the plans can save you thousands
in construction costs.
Don't build from plans that have not been built before
if you don't want a surprise, or a $150/SF price tag.
We were where you are now about a year ago, and not being smart enough to ask your question (hey, there's hundreds and hundreds of these, they must be ok, right?), ordered our plans from one of the house plan catalogs.
We already knew that we needed to increase the garage- it was the useless 20x20 size already mentioned. Took the prints to the building inspector, as we are owner-builders, to see what other changes needed to be done. We knew we wanted 2x6 walls for additional insulation. We also had to change the roof- it was designed for Georgia, which has a bit less of a snow load than Michigan. The stairway didn't have enough height at the top to meet code- raised the roof a foot over the great room. Just a few problems with the live load/dead load (ok, some sort of loads) figuring- had to have additional footings poured. We reworked all the mechanicals to go with RF heat, so I can't tell you if those would have been ok. Exterior elevations showed the windows in different places than the floor plans.
After all that, I can say that everything has worked out fine, but if we hadn't spent a considerable amount of time going over the plan before we broke ground, it could have easily been a disaster.
Edited to add that http://building-cost.net/ is an interesting rough estimator of labor and materials. They were within 10% on material costs when I ran our info through.
Edited 5/30/2002 4:27:55 PM ET by Cami
First thing I would do is find the right builder. A poor one can increase costs during construction, due to mistakes. Also after completion , due to having to fix the problems that seem to keep cropping up. Look at local contractors building homes in the size, style, and QUALITY you want to own. Local lumber yards are a good source for references, good contactors pay their suppliers. Once you find a contractor or two that suits your needs, show them the plan styles you like. Then give them some type of budget. An experienced buider should be able to tell if you are in the ballpark, after an hour interview. Then see how they feel about the plans you like. The most effective projects I've seen, had the builder involved at the design stage. It is much easier to catch the problems on paper, than in the field (cheaper). I have to agree that most catalog plans leave alot to be desired, but they can be a good place to start. If you really like a specific design, order 1 set, then sit down with the builder and make the neccesary adjustments. There will most likely be some engineering needed, but many builders are capable of handling it. Personally, I've built " box plans", quite a few architects designs, and a 3000+ sf from a rough floor plan and 1 elevation. Architect is my preference, but communication between owner, architect, and builder is a big factor. The personalities must complement each other. If you have very little idea of what you want, and building in general, an architect can keep you from making costly mistakes ( changes, changes, changes!!!!!). If you are knowledgeable, and decisive, all you need is a good builder. As I have written in the past, there are 3 major factors in all building projects; Size , Quality, and Cost. An owner can only control 2 of these at any given time, and those two drive the result of the leftover factor. ( Big, fancy= expensive). Not to say that big and fancy can't be a good value. Hope something here is useful, didn't intend to be so long winded. I think a better word to look at when cosidering a project than Cost, is VALUE. I.e. long term cost effectiveness! But what do I know. Best of luck!
Brudoggie
Around here any houseplan can be drawn for 30 cents a square foot, that puts a average 1200 sq ft house around $300. Which really is normal price around here. Stay away from hand drawn print. Auto cad is easyer to change and dimension work better.
VERY IMPORTANT !!!!!!!
Once print are drawn, do not change anything at all, if you do not like a door or closet, live with it.
I know because of a change in kictern window my refrigerator is in a closet now, no place in the kictern. Every 1/2 inch is calulated so once you start changing is throws everything else off.
"VERY IMPORTANT !!!!!!!
Once print are drawn, do not change anything at all, if you do not like a door or closet, live with it. "
My goodness. I've built houses where virtually not one door,
window, or wall are as shown on the prints. Not a problem.
You need a little intelligence here, of course. Don't move
bearing walls, don't change a 3' window to a 12' bay without
the proper expertise. When a customer walks through during
rough framing and wants a closet over HERE and the stairs
over THERE, thats where you put them. If you stuck in ####30-foot beam someplace and its not on the prints, the inspector
may want to see an engineer's seal on the change. Otherwise,
go for it.
Plans are often just a sketch of the finished product. Most
or all of the details are left to the builder. One thing that's
very helpful is to have a plumber, HVAC, electrician look at
the plans first. Mark the service entry points - gas, electric,
sewer, water. See if they will sketch roughly which way main
drains run, stack locations, how much drop is necessary, etc.
Change the plans to be sympathetic to the mechanicals. Saves
tons of work later. Avoids the HVAC guy chainsawing a 30" hole
in the middle of the dining room ("the return HAS to go here").
Plumbing and HVAC are the biggest offenders. Sometimes a pipe
simply has to be run in a specific spot. If there's joists running
the wrong way, a window above a stack, insufficient joist depth,
you'll end up with a mess. It's very simple to make changes with
a pencil. Much harder to move 9 yards of concrete.