Encouraged by many of the folks here at Breaktime, I started doing full-time home restoration work this year.
I’m currently working on re-creating a side porch on an 1860s Italianate house. Having only worked on my own DIY projects, I’ve been venturing into some unknown territory. The homeowners have been great, and this has been a tremendous learning experience.
I’ll be posting some in-progress photos, looking for helpful/critical feedback, and perhaps others struggling with similar challenges can learn along with me.
Here’s a “before” view, taken this past spring. It’s a side porch on the rear wing of the house:
The porch deck is completely gone, and various sticks of lumber and former porch parts are holding up the roof.
The homeowners want to re-create the original porch, and also extend it the entire length of the wing:
They also want two fairly grand sets of stairs.
(My appologies to fellow dial-uppers; those photos sized up a bit larger than I’d planned).
To be continued …
Allen
Replies
The homeowner is trying to save as much original structure as possible. He asked that I keep the existing roof frame, and extend it to the end of the wing.
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As I carefully deconstructed things, however, there was extensive rot. We decided to remove the entire existing structure and start from scratch.
I work solo, but the homeowner assists, or gets others to help on occassion. Like clearing out those concrete steps:
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Allen
Good start, but it looks like you've got your work cut out for you.
Should be a very nice job!
And let me state the obvious, watch those flashing details.
Buic
Allen
I to await the forthcoming pictures/progress shots.
Looks like a fun project.
Doug
Count me in too for much interest as this project proceeds.
What will the roof choice be? I know thats leaping ahead a lot ,but just curious.
Judging from your other work you've posted I know this will turn out great!
Walter
Super job opportunity! I'm gonna' watch this like a TV show. I love before and after and during and incremental steps and interesting sidebar pictures - maybe you've noticed.
This is what I come to BT for.
Forrest - somebody's watching you . . .
Oh yeah - I also like "An Italianate Veranda".
Sounds like a classic chick - not "The indolent, sloe-eyed Zerlene"
Forrest
Is that the front or the back of the house? Looks like job security. I'm guessing maybe $150k or so of restoration is needed on that house...
Thanks for the interest. In answer to the questions:
This is the rear wing of the house; kitchen was on the first floor and servants quarters on the second.
Yes the house needs a lot of work. $150K is probably a good guess, but the homeowner is trying to keep costs to an absolute minimum ... enlisting family members, Amish carpenters, farm laborers, parttime handymen, and ... umm ... me.
For the porch roof, we considered cedar (I used white cedar for my own porch and house), but this roof is barely visible from the ground. The rest of the house is fairly new asphalt shingles, so that's the decision (see also "cost" consideration above).
Yes, proper flashing is an obvious, but often overlooked detail. I have a couple good FH articles on flashing house and porch trim. This project is well underway, however, and I fear flashing has been one of the details that I've shortchanged a bit in order to keep showing "progress" for the homeowner. That's one of the biggest mistakes I've made so far.
Forrest, your posts have been a great educational tool. A second lesson I've learned is the importance of taking the time to do detailed, accurate drawings. I like your concept of old structure - new structure - and interface. I've been too much "winging it" as I go ... think, measure, cut, measure, cut, think again.
Have to go make some molding now. I'll continue "catching up" with photos later tonight.
Allen
After deconstructing what was left of the original porch, I had to deal with a few areas where the sill had rotted. The sill is 4 inches tall by 6 inches deep. I chiseled out the rot, back to sound wood. This is an in-process photo:
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That's brick and mortar nogging between the studs. It encases the sill, and runs up the wall about a foot.
Here's the other area of sill decay. A couple boards were previously stuck in there:
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Here's that corner partially rebuilt. Because the bottoms of a couple studs were rotted, I cut them short and made the new section of sill taller. I still have to finish up around the corner and mortar in that gap below the new PT sill:
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Next, I'll show some actual construction.
Allen
Looking forward to more. This stuff is what turns me on. As you get into this you get to know the tradesmen who lived before you and the spirit of the original designer.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Piffin, thanks.
By the way, I'm gonna be in Wyoming County sometime this week or next ... bicycling and photographing houses. You mentioned that you grew up in a plank house in Java Center? I'd like to photograph it and put it in my "vertical plank house" file. Is the house right in the little hamlet? Is there a way to identify it?
Thanks.
Allen
1927 Main Road about 1.9 miles east (?) from the RR tracks. It has been resided three times at least in it's life, so I doubt you'll see the planks. There was a barn with all the original natural exposed tho. I heward it got torn down but I don't know.It is right next door to a campground entrance with log house that was called Kenlee Haven, but I'm sure Ken and Lee are both long dead and buried now so no telling what that is. They didn't have any kids to inherit.If you find the house, it is likely to have four tall evergreens shielding it from the road traffic. Dad planted them - one for each son....I'd love to see any photos you can get.
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Main road on the map is where Rt 78 and 98 run together for 2.5 miles.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Thanks for the info. I don't expect to see any evidence of the plank construction ... but I'm interested in the overall shape and proportions, and any trim or architectural elements that might be left. And to have it in my files with the caption, "vertical plank construction, town of Java, Wyoming County."
Ten years ago when I was last in the market for a house, I drove every single road in western Wyoming County, looking for an abandoned house to "save," or a FSBO that didn't make the MLS. ("for sale by owner" not on the multiple listing system).
There were very few pre-1850 houses that hadn't been extensively altered, and none available. There was an abondoned Greek Revival across the county line in Wales, but I didn't get very far in searching for the owner. By then I had moved my search northward.
But Wyoming County sure is prettier.
Allen
If I remember, there are seeveral Greek Revivals in Strykersville, and I know the bank in North Java is Greek R. now that I think about it, I might have a ten dollar passsbook savings act there still...;)
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Oh yes, there are quite a few lovely Greek Revivals in the area. But none for sale when I was looking. When my ex-wife relocated from Orchard Park to Amherst, I shifted my search to the north, as our two young sons were with me three days a week (Arcade to Amherst would be a very long drive to school in the morning!).
Ahh, another porch project! Very cool. Will you post any photos along the way?
Allen
So you lived in Arcade?I went to HS three years there, and then was in the first graduating class of '70 at Pioneer school. Last time I was there, I stopped to visit, but there had just been two or three students had commited suicide the night before, so nobody was available - strange scene to walk into...
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No, never lived in Arcade. But it was within the area of my "house search" back in '95 when my wife and I separated. We were living in Ochard Park at the time; my ex-wife and I are both from the Finger Lakes region but moved to Buffalo area in '93.
Allen
I still have two brothers back there in Erie Co now.
I'm sure you have heard one. He is a production guy for one of the big radio stations and has about twenty or thirty voices for the advertising. Dad worked in East Aurora at MoogGreat grandfather used to live on Lake Honeyoye, one of the smaller fingerlakes
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Thanks for posting the photos and drawing. Looking forward to seeing how it turns out. And, I mentioned earlier, I really have to start doing detailed measured drawings. My little sketches on the back of paper napkins ain't cuttin' it.
One more aside before I get back to the Italianate veranda. Below is another view of the tower. The new shingle work was done by an Amish carpenter. He uses power tools, but has to be driven to the jobsite. Anyway, I was impressed by his work. I rebuilt the window sash using epoxy, and replaced the broken panes. It was the first time I'd cut a curve in glass.
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Allen
OK, now tell us - what is the technique that works to cut a curve in glass.BTW, do you have the # and adress for Bendheim? They are the suppliers for restoration glass. I can look it up if you ever need it.
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To cut the glass, I scored the semicircle, then ran a few score lines ran in tangents off the circle. I laid the glass on top of a piece of plywood in the shape of the final pane. Then tapped the waste glass in the usual manner. There might be a better way, but that's what I did.
I've seen Bendheim glass and there's something about it that doesn't look quite right to me. The unevenness is too consistent or something. I have a large collection of old panes, but it's time consuming to extract them from the sash.
"the skirt flaring out there" Not sure what that means. I was kinda wingin' it with that roof framing ... probably should have done more research. I know I ended up having to shim and fudge a bit for the soffit and fascia.
How is that normally handled? I'm here to learn!
Here's a closer look at my attempt. Colors show the two planes of the roof.
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That's a doubled 2 x 6 at the hip ridge, with the top edge of each cut at an angle to accept the plywood sheathing. The original porch roof had a single full-dimension 2 x 4 at the ridge, with the top edge angled in two directions. That's what I copied.
Allen
The skirt I was referring to was up on the flare out at base of the tower the Amishman shingled. Seems like a 2" rounded ridge trim there
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Ahh. I haven't taken a close look at that. Maybe you can see better in the more detailed photo attached.
Allen
I'm also interested in how the detailing of that hip ridge works as ity runs into the skirt flaring out there.
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After completing the deck framing, I installed 5/4 southern yellow pine flooring. I primed all sides with oil-based primer, tinted gray.
Next, I attached post stand-off bases for the 4 x 4 posts. I used 4 x 4s so I could wrap them to get the final 6 x 6 dimensions of the original. I had one of the original porch posts (6 x 6, hollow), through which I coaxed a 4 x 4 x 12-foot PT post (with a sledge hammer).
This is an original porch post:
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Here is the framed roof. I was learning as I went along. Mostly I just matched what I had previously deconstructed ... same angles, same hip dimensions, same soffit measurements. It was slow going for me, though. Too much "think, measure, think, measure again ... cut."
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Next I sheathed and tar-papered the roof. I had never installed asphalt shingles before (only cedar), so the homeowner had his electrician/roofer put on the shingles while I moved along with the soffit and fascia trim, and the ceiling framing:
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Allen
He!! - you may beat me getting finished!
Looking good -
Forrest - (note to self: better get something done today)
No worry; at your admirable pace, you'll be wrapping up long before me. I started this project many weeks ago; if I were posting in "real time" like your portico, you'd know how slow I work.
Now I've started another job, and have to split my time. That's a situation I wanted to avoid, but I can't keep putting off my other clients.
And with winter quickly approaching here in the northeast, there's bunch of stuff that needs to be done very soon on my own home restoration.
Allen
Allen
You mentioned SYP for the porch floor, is it T&G? I cant see in the pic.
Doug
Doug, that's 5/4 T&G SYP. I primed all sides. Some people have had bad experience with SYP for porch floors, but I've had OK results in the past.
In the letters section of the latest Old House Journal, Steve Jordan writes that his installation from two years ago has completely rotted through. 5/4 T&G vertical grain, back-primed and topped with two coats of oil porch floor paint.
I know Steve, and he's a detail-oriented restoration specialist. He does point out, however, that his failed areas were "exposed to gutter drips and weather." I've had paint failure in similar situations (where my wife waters the hanging plants), so I'm well aware that keeping paint on a SYP floor can be problematic.
Allen
Looks good, keep the pics flowing. That left door looks to be a 9'er
jt8
"Success is not the key to happiness. Happiness is the key to success." --Albert Schweitzer
Edited 9/8/2006 4:20 pm by JohnT8
Sad story about the suicides. Some high school kids just don't realize that life does get better.
Let's see what I can find here...The photo from the old bookThe face of the building - it has been added onto
They had somebody put red cedar shingles on parts of it, but6 it still needs finishing. next year we will be doing additions to the other side of the houseThe entryThe first draft of proposed entry line drawing. The 3D view is too large to load up
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I posted a photo of your boyhood home in Andy's Bicycle Fest thread. 74920.269 I took a few other photos, too, if you're interested. Looks like it's undergone a few more changes in recent years. But the setting is beautiful, and the lawn manicured. I love those ancient maple trees.
Allen
The next step was to do the layout for the footers, dig the holes and pour the concrete. The deck ledger is lag-screwed to the sill; I couldn't use bolts because the brick nogging blocked access to the backside of the sill.
One-inch spacers are sandwiched between the ledger and the sill. This allowed the lower part of the 2 x 10 ledger to clear the uneven stone foundation, and also provided an air space.
I decided to build the deck as one unit, and build the porch columns and roof above that, in the traditional manner. The deck support posts, to be trimmed out in wood later, are 4 x 6 PT. Simpson post holders are bolted to the footers.
The plan is to add fill so that all the concrete piers are at grade. I considered following the existing grade, but because there will be two sets of stairs, it will look best if the ground is level (and both stairs identical).
The flooring will run perpendicular to the house, so the joists are parallel to the house:
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The 4 x 6 posts and the 4 x 4 diagonal braces are notched to accept the rim joist (if that's the right term). The posts are spaced 5'9", center to center. This dimension came the closest to centering each door between posts and have the pilaster clear the end window.
Allen
Looking good! Can't wait to see those dual stairs. Maybe you could signs above them that say "Up" and "Down", or "Enter" and "Do Not Enter".
Or maybe "Republican" and "Democrat"
Or "yin" and "yang"
The possibilities are endless!
Forrest
Really neat project! I can see some Italianate details, but from those pictures I have a hard time calling it anything except a vernacular farmhouse. And I'm confused about the third door. It almost looks like a duplex.
Also, what is noggin and what is its function? I've heard the phrase before, but I don't understand it.
I have to say that if it was my house, I'd be looking at doing a second floor deck, given that window opening right at the upper level.
As a matter of fact, one of the homeowners suggested the possibility of a second-story deck. The other homeowner and myself favored more closely matching the original. But, yeah, it could be nice.
It was fairly common in the 19th century to fill stud bays in wood houses with masonry. I've heard it was supposed to stop air infiltration or to "insulate" or to create a thermal mass or make the space less friendly to squirrels and other rodents ???? In this house, dating from the late 1860s, it only extended about a foot up the walls, encasing the sill and the ends of the floor joists. Weird.
The rear wing was kitchen and servants quarters, not a whole lot of Italianate detailing, except the porch and roof brackets. The main part of the house if fairly ornate, with a cupola and a tower.
Here's a shot from this past spring. The place is looking much better now, though there is still A LOT of work left to do. That massive classical revival porch is an early 20th century addition. If it were my house, I'd replace it with something more appropriate; it's a silly anachronism to my eye.
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Allen
I'm working up plans rtight now for a porch restoration to a house. We have a photo from eighty years ago to work from and the fact that the house across the street was once part of the same estate, so it has a similar porch. The lady and I have been studying that old photo with a magnifying glass, while I educate her as to what they wiould most likey have done about this and that based on the rules and drawings from Paladio
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The lady and I have been studying that old photo with a magnifying glass, while I educate her as to what they wiould most likey have done about this and that based on the rules and drawings from Paladio
If it is a fairly clear picture, try scanning it. A high res scan can make it much larger and easier to see.jt8
"Success is not the key to happiness. Happiness is the key to success." --Albert Schweitzer
Nice house! I especially love that cupola/belveder thing at the top. I totally agree with your assessment of the front - way out of proportion, and the styling is wrong too. Maybe just changing the columns and railings? But its hard to justify replacing perfectly functional stuff when so much else needs to be done. I'm lucky, my porch columns are rotting so I have a reason to go back to what it should be <g>.My guess is the 'noggin' you are finding was really just a way to get rid of debris without lugging it out to bury in the possibly frozen ground. That and some of the plaster brown coat dropping into the cavity.
Bryan, the masonry between the studs (this is a balloon-framed house) was carefully done ... not just piled debris:
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Below is a photo of an earlier house -- c.1840s timber frame construction in Wayne County, N.Y. In the exposed area you can see the carefully stacked bricks (not mortared). The bricks obviously go from the sill all the way to at least the first floor ceiling beam.
A lot of hand-made bricks (a premium building material!) went into that wood house:
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More porch photos later. Gotta get back to work.
Thanks for the feedback!
Allen
The first one almost looks like a brick house, but with solid blocking!I can see the thermal mass argument, when the bays are full, particularly in that area. But the one foot? That does seem strange. Any reason to have weight holding down the bottom plate?
The answer probably could be found in some of the trade journals of the day. In the meantime, your guess is as good as mine!
My own home is 30 years older than the Italianate, and the builder used the then newly-promoted technique of stacked-plank construction. Some day I'm going to look up the arguments for that technique. There's a 20-year-old thesis paper at Cornell that I have yet to read.
Allen
I have friends at Cornell, if you are not close. I imagine they would find a copy if you have details.It sure would be interesting to find out the logic. I haven't seen anything like it furthere south, but it isn't like I've seen hundreds of houses either.
Cornell is a few hours away; I used to get to Ithaca quite often, but not so much lately. I'll try to get the author and date of the thesis, if you think someone could get a copy of it for me. Thanks!
Allen
For the one-and-a-half-inch quarter-round molding, I first ripped a 45-degree angle. Then rounded it over with a flat plane:
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A little sanding, and it's good enough:
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Next I had to make two more moldings, a decorative cutout, cut the chamfers on the posts, and put together the assembly. Photos tomorrow.
Allen
Super, super, super. I love posts that tell a story!
Nice work, as always.
Coving is a neat deal; I've only done a little of it.
Forrest
Thanks, Forrest. I wasn't really prepared to start doing this stuff for a living, but here I am. I'm completely self-taught, having never worked with or for anyone else. So if you see something here, and think, "Why the heck is he doing it that way?!" please point it out. This forum is my number one learning tool!
Speaking of tools, so far I've been trying to get by with the few tools I've collected over the years as a DIYer. Undercapitalized, and trying to keep overhead to a minimum for now. So, some of my perhaps oddball techniques may have much to do with working with limited tool choices.
Allen
<perhaps oddball techniques may have much to do with working with limited tool choices.>
My English teacher in HS was a poor (only in money) woodworker; he made amazing clamps out of twisted rope and sticks.
Forrest
Back to the veranda, once again.
The next step was to create the post "wraps" -- basically a box that wraps around each of the 4x4 PT posts.
Two sides of each post "wrap" are 5/4 pine, with a chamfer along part of the edge. I didn't have a router bit large enough, so I positioned the boards on the table saw, then raised the blade (set at 45 degrees), ripped to a marked location, and lowered the blade.
At each "end" of the chamfer, there's a an ogee. I cut then (32 total -- eight on each of four new posts) by hand with coping saw:
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I assemble three sides in the shop, attaching some of the decorative trim. The assembly was nailed and glued together, and backprimed. On site, I added the fourth side and the rest of the trim. Each post has 24 pieces of trim, not counting brackets that are yet to come.
Here's an in-progress shot of the assemblage on site. Also note that I framed up a basic staircase for the homeowners (who were already making use of the porch):
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And a closer view:
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Allen
Way good !
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
very cool...
Beautiful work!
I did a little restoration on a circa 1868 house last year and had to rebuilt the soffit and some finalles but it was nowhere near as complicated as what you're doing!
When in doubt, get a bigger hammer!
Allen
Your posts look good, and the lambs tounge is done well. Your getting good with that coping saw!
When your porch work is completed the HO is going to be forced to have you do the rest of the house to make it "match".
Doug
Doug, thanks for the "lamb's tongue" term. I'm gonna remember that one.
BTW, I see you're published in the latest FHB! Congratulations! Are you back in Iowa, yet?
Allen
Allen
Haven't been on here in a while, I had to get the internet turned off at the house so I could get something done!
Just got to Iowa tonight, probably have to go back a couple times for misc. but I start work tomorrow morn. so I had to get here.
I called on my former boss when I was back here a month ago and he called me up a few weeks later offering me a job, I'm excited, this is probably one of, if not thee, finest millwork shop in the state, good benefits, good guy to work for, everything about the place is first class, including their choice in employees!
BTW, I see you're published in the latest FHB!
What's that about? I need to renew my subscription but was waiting to move so as not to have mag's forwarded, which is problematic at best.
I talked to a person from Taunton about hidden doors/secret rooms but we could never make any connection. I was in Austin when he wasn't and I was in Iowa when he was in Austin so there wasn't any way to get together. He (don't remember his name) wanted pictures of some of the hidden doors but some of these were for well known people who DO NOT want that info let out so I didn't know how any of this would shake out so to speak. Hell I don't even know if that's what the reference to "published" meant, you might be talking about one of the "tips from the internet" things for all I know.
I've been so damn busy getting moved up here that going to work tomorrow morn will be like a day of rest for me!
Later, and keep the pics on the remod coming, its looking good.
Doug
"... you might be talking about one of the "tips from the internet" things ..."
Yup, about painting ballusters. Having one person on each side to minimize drips.
I am happy to hear things are working out for you. When things settle down, I'm still interested in seeing photos of some of your Empire furniture collection!
Allen
Where in Iowa did you move back to?
jt8
"Success is not the key to happiness. Happiness is the key to success." --Albert Schweitzer
Iowa City/Coralville, Amana area.
I'm from a small town east of Ames (I think I've seen you mention that you were either from there or went to school there) moved to the CR area for most of the rest of my life with 3 year stints in both OK and TX, hopefully back here for good!
Doug
Iowa City/Coralville, Amana area.
Gonna put on a black hat and drive a buggy to work? I guess as long as you aren't a Hawkeye fan, we can still be friends :)
I'm from a small town east of Ames (I think I've seen you mention that you were either from there or went to school there)
I lived in Ames for 3 or 4 years. Still paying for that. jt8
"Success is not the key to happiness. Happiness is the key to success." --Albert Schweitzer
Pretty columns!
Forrest
Very nice restoration work.
All the more impressive since it's being done in a shop that isn't filled with 500k full of machinery.
Keep the pics coming please.
Walter
Walter, thanks. Coming from the skilled craftsman that you are, that's a nice compliment.
Allen
Wow, that's some neat stuff. I bet the Knots guys would like this stuff too. jt8
"Success is not the key to happiness. Happiness is the key to success." --Albert Schweitzer
JohnT8: Thank you. I sometimes wander over to Knots, but I can't even keep up with the posts here. My long-term goal is to eventually make reproduction 1830s-40s Empire Style furniture. I have a long way to go in terms of skill, however! "Paint grade" is challenging enough.
Allen
I probably won't have time to post photos for a few days, so here's a couple more.
After getting the porch posts in place, I had to start replicating brackets. Here's a few of the templates (for brackets and miscellaneous other trim):
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I used epoxy to build up layers of wood to get the thickness of stock I needed. That seemed easier than tracking down a source for solid wood. I did the cutout work with my small bandsaw -- very time consuming.
Here's a small percentage of some of the shaped trim and brackets:
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The next photo shows some of those elements installed. I was able to recycle a few brackets from the original porch -- after stripping and doing some epoxy consolidation work. A quarter-round piece still needs to go at the intersection of the soffit and frieze board, between the brackets. And another piece of horizontal moulding will go on the frieze board under the smaller brackets:
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Stairs are next. Photos perhaps on Monday. I'm just about caught up here with "real time," so the perceived pace is likely to slow down a bit!
Allen
Just stunning! - I wa motivated today by your pix, to do a tiny crown jog just to show off for the next generation that will be working on my portico project.
I think your stuff is gonna' last a while.
Forrest
I'm very impressed with all the woodwork,and esp. the built up sawn out brackets.
That's nice to see.
Best regards,Walter
Got to add this to the list of threads I check every day!
"It's always better to have regrets for things you've done than for things you wish you had done..........."
Intrepidcat, if you're going to be looking every day, I'd better at least get one more photo posted before the weekend. Thanks for your intererst ... if you have some critical feedback, don't hestitate to blast away!
I've got another porch project, possibly, in the near future, and surely don't want to be making the same mistakes twice.
In the photo below, the treads are installed on both sets of stairs, and the basic framework is in place for two big newel posts. I wasn't sure about the best approach for this. I used a couple 2 x 6s, screwed and glued.
The steps will be enclosed, so I cut out the step profiles, and put the trim on top of the treads. I back- and edge-primed all the pine trim. Again, give me a shout if there's a better way to this. For interior construction, the treads are usually mortised into the enclosed stringer, but that seemed more difficult to do, and perhaps more vulnerable to moisture.
The attached blocking on the outside of the stringer will support trim to create a wide "enclosed stringer."
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Allen
Edited 9/15/2006 9:02 am ET by WNYguy
Really nice looking, but I have to ask: Are you not adding a 2nd half column on the other wall? Seems like it would look more balanced that way.
Yes, the original one is pretty much intact. I just have to strip it and install it in its new location. The back side is cut to fit over the clapboards, which makes it handy to relocate.
In the meantime, it's handy to keep in the shop to doublecheck dimensions and details.
Good eye, BTW!
Allen
Great work man. The picture of the porch w/the chairs on it tells the story:
You have provided your client with something that is truly usefull and for that reason, needed. They can't even wait for it to be completed!
IMO there is nothing greater than seeing a design come to life; especially when it is constructed with patience and stylistic integrity.
Kepp those posts coming.
"The picture of the porch w/the chairs on it tells the story"
Thanks, phillydzine. I've been spending a lot of time working around and moving around all the clients' stuff, but I figure the summer's short and they might as well be enjoying what I've built so far.
Allen
Back to the veranda project, once again.
The client wanted "big" newel posts for the veranda stairs. At first I thought perhaps we went a little over scale with them, but I think they'll be fine.
I picked up some of the post trim details to tie the design together. A very blurry photo of the original stairs looked like that's how they might have been. It was distant in the background of the photo, and out of focus.
The stairs themselves got trimmed out with enclosed stringers:
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Below is a view showing both sets of stairs:
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Each newel cap is four pieces creating a shallow pyramid. The pieces are epoxied together, and the entire underside is coated in epoxy to reduce moisture-induced movement. It will be interesting to see how they hold up:
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Allen
Edited 9/18/2006 6:08 pm ET by WNYguy
Edited 9/18/2006 6:09 pm ET by WNYguy
Looking great Allen.
What shape will the ballusters be?
Many, if not most, Italianate porches have no railings and no ballusters. The building inspector said we might have to tack up something for the inspection, but can take it down later.
We might end up with a permanent railing, but it would have to be lower than modern code specs. Those tall modern porch ballustrades look horrible. I was happy to see that McDesign got a variance for his portico ballustrade.
For the stairs, I'm still sketching out a few options. But it will be some sort of "cut-out" shape from flat boards. If you have photos of designs you think might work, please post 'em. I've got a day or two to decide.
I was also planning on decorative cutouts for the panels below the deck, but there are eight panels, and I really have to move this project along. More on that tomorrow.
Allen
Great stuff!
Love those stone slabs at the base of each stair. It really anchors the whole porch visually.
I also realy like the house's foundation, visible in your earlier photos. Looks to be in great shape.Your porch brings back memories of helping my father rebuild one similar up in Baldwinsville, NY when I was a teenager. Pop had a historic restoration business, and I got my woodworking bug from him.
BTW I work at Cornell, so I'd also be happy to track down the reference material you're looking for. Just let me know.
Cheers.
Ithaca, NY "10 square miles, surrounded by reality"
Allen,
here's a design I used for our deck skirting-I know this won't work for ballusters,but thought you might like seeing it.
There are pattern books I've seen that would have the designs you might want.I can't recall the names offhand.
Router and jig?
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"Success is not the key to happiness. Happiness is the key to success." --Albert Schweitzer
Walter, that's pretty cool. How did you do it? Router and jig as previously suggested?
For 20 years I've been so focused on Federal and Greek Revival, I've overlooked many of the later styles. In the little village where I was working today, it seemed every other house had decorative cutouts for either the porch skirting or the railing or both. No two alike.
On my Italianate veranda project, I decided to go with diagonal lattice for the skirting. I'm behind schedule, so I bought some pre-made PT lattice ... but it was absolute junk, and too widely spaced. Had to make it work, so I ripped a few more pieces and doubled the number of lattice strips:
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The frames are constructed with simple half-laps. The lattice is cut so that all parallel stips going in one direction are inset in the frame, and the perpendicular strips are attached to the back of the frame:
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Here's a photo of all eight panels installed:
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And another view:
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I'm on another job all this week, and at Andy Engel's Bicycle Fest this weekend, so there won't be much progress for a while.
Allen
Allen and John T8,
That was copied somewhat from a house on the Maine coast.
My friend who built our pergola actually cut it out since I was real busy with slate work.He used drill press and jig saw since I didn't have a good plunge router at the time.
For a larger porch on the back I'll make up a different pattern and will most likely rout out those pieces.
Allen, a fantastic job.
Thanks for posting the "journal" of your work on it.Leon
Thanks, Leon. I need to get back over to that project for a proper "after" photo. The homeowners were going to paint, change out those inappropriate windows, etc., but I don't know how far they got.
Allen
Stray, thanks for the comments. Yeah, that foundation is pretty impressive.
Those two big slabs of sandstone were originally used at the same location. Well, we think they were; one of them was found elsewhere on the property.
I need to find the name and date of that Cornell thesis paper on plank construction. Steve Jordan wrote an article in OHJ maybe 15 years ago, and he said he got much of his info from that paper. I'll have to find the OHJ issue, or call Steve.
Neat story about your dad. Was restoration work his full-time job?
Allen
Neat story about your dad. Was restoration work his full-time job?
Yes, Historic restoration in both wood and iron (self taught blacksmith). Based out of Syracuse. He does some amazing stuff. Now retired in NJ and doing furniture mostly. No two jobs were alike, which kept it interesting for him. I'm sure you're finding it the same way.
A few years prior to retirement he found doing the sole proprietor thing wasn't cutting it benefit/retirement wise, and went to work for Stickley in their sample shop doing one-of-a-kind pieces and new product samples for market.
Moral of the story for you...If I can be so bold as to prosthelitise (sp?).... is to insure you're getting pd what you need to to, keep doing what you love.
Best of luck. I look forward to more pics after bike fest!Ithaca, NY "10 square miles, surrounded by reality"
Stray, that Cornell thesis paper was titled, Radiographic Inspection of Plank House Construction. It was written in 1982 by Mary Joan Simmons Kevlin. I'd really appreciate it if you could find out if it's available and what I would need to do (or pay) to get a copy. Thanks!
I had a good time going back through 20 years of OHJ magazines trying to find Steve Jordan's Houses Without Frames article. It was the May-June 1993 issue.
There is lots of useful, hands-on information in those old issues. The more recent ones seem more aimed at upscale trendy decorator types.
I'll be getting back the the porch project next week.
Allen
Well I have both volumes of this thesis on my desk. I've emailed the library to see whether or not it's possible to get a copy made or not, and if so what the cost is. There's 612 pages...
View ImageIthaca, NY "10 square miles, surrounded by reality"
Yikes! Don't even make the attempt. I'll put a trip to Cornell on my list of things to do, and read it there.
Thanks! I really appreciate you taking the time to look it up. Looks like I'll have to put aside a chunk of time when I do get back to Ithaca.
Allen
Yup. We got friends on the faculty there. They used to be here but now they're there.Probably take a few weeks, but better than driving out to Ithica. Of course, it might be archived, which might take money to get.
OK, some more photos about the veranda I'm working on.
After framing for the ceiling, I installed 1 x 6 tongue and groove beaded pine. It's quite knotty stuff, but all I could find locally:
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I used the one and only original post. I needed to replicate four more of them:
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First, I made the moldings. It took a few steps for this first one. I ran the stock diagonally across the table saw blade to get the cove portion:
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Then used a molding cutter to shape the half-round portion:
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A couple straight cuts and a little sanding, and I had a reasonable replica:
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Next was the large quarter-round (see next post).
Allen
Allen- since you have a moulding cutter (I'm assuming this is a table saw attachment with 3 shaper blades in it, like the one I have), have you tried using a cove cutter in that to make your cove on the tablesaw?
You can still run the board diagonally, but it seems to leave a cleaner cove, because you don't have the ATB of the blade leaving saw marks.
I'm very impressed with the porch, it seems like a daunting amount of work recreating details- to little to get custom tooling for each thing, but a lot of work make with the common tools. Keep up the good work!zak
"so it goes"
Zak, thanks for the tip. Those cutters are fairly inexpensive, and easy to order on-line now. The cutter head came with the Sears radial arm saw I bought in the early '80s. I bought a couple new sets of blades recently, and definitely should get some more.
When I made windows for my own house, I ground flat cutters to match the muntin profile of my exisiting sash. Tricky to do, as all three blades have to be exactly the same:
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Allen
It sounds like you have the same moulding head cutter I do. I was lucky, mine came with the unisaw I bought used, and it had almost all the available cutters with it.
That's great that you cut your own cutters for it- I've thought about doing that, but I've never had a large enough run of material, or enough gumption, to do it.zak
"so it goes"
Hijack alert!
How the heck did you get a Unisaw into student housing? And where'd you find the 220 to power it???
Glad to see you made it down safe & sound and already have a good gig!
Hijack over.