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adrianne–
1. What exhausting devices are there in the house–furnace, boiler, hot water heater, bathroom fan, JennAir? In a tight house the chimney could be providing makeup air for an exhaust device.
2. If the chimney is low to the roof on the windward side of the building, then air can be forced down the chimney by wind.
3. For the first draw of the chimney to be good, the chimney materials should be warm with respect to the outdoor air temperature; if the chimney materials are cold comapred to the outdoor air, the draw will be downward. So it’s easier to get a draw once the chimney has been warmed by the sun, and hardest in the morning, when the chimney can be cold.
4. This is a minor effect, but a wet chimney draws worse than a dry chimney. If hard mortar on the outside has cracked, or the flashing is going bad, and water can get all the way to the flue liner, then it takes more heat to get to higher flue temperatures.
5. There are no chimney engineers, far as I can tell. Good luck. A hair dryer works?–Must be a small flue.
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adrianne--
1. What exhausting devices are there in the house--furnace, boiler, hot water heater, bathroom fan, JennAir? In a tight house the chimney could be providing makeup air for an exhaust device.
2. If the chimney is low to the roof on the windward side of the building, then air can be forced down the chimney by wind.
3. For the first draw of the chimney to be good, the chimney materials should be warm with respect to the outdoor air temperature; if the chimney materials are cold comapred to the outdoor air, the draw will be downward. So it's easier to get a draw once the chimney has been warmed by the sun, and hardest in the morning, when the chimney can be cold.
4. This is a minor effect, but a wet chimney draws worse than a dry chimney. If hard mortar on the outside has cracked, or the flashing is going bad, and water can get all the way to the flue liner, then it takes more heat to get to higher flue temperatures.
5. There are no chimney engineers, far as I can tell. Good luck. A hair dryer works?--Must be a small flue.
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Very mysterious not to mention annoying. We had a similiar problem that was caused by a poorly designed chimney cap. A chimney sweep company replaced it with one that had a top with an air foil. The theory is that as wind passed over it, negative pressure builds underneath and draws the smoke up. Fortunately it ended about 90% of the problem. Unfortunately for you, there are no garuantees-every fireplace is unique in how it works under their specific conditions. Opening a window should help but sort of defeats the purpose. You could also consider an insert. They're better heaters anyway.
*Thanks for the help. This is a 30+ yr old house. Nothing air tight about it! Chimney is at least 6 feet off the roof. Had a chimney cap on, didn't help any, took it off (somehow it got all dented up and looked like "The Birds" had a go at it. Looked bad, and thought we'd see the difference if we took it off - none) The wood is brought in the house and is almost always room temp. when burned. Opening door and windows doesn't seem to help, at least it doesn't suck the smoke up right away, that we can see (when our eyes stop burning/watering!) Can't see any water anywhere, or condensation. This even happens on dry days, although it's not as bad on a dead calm day - not a wisp of breeze in the air. Then it doesn't blow back anywhere near as bad.We've been here about 18 yrs. and as I said, the past 4 yrs or so is when the problem with the smoke started. And we never had a chimney cap on until about 10 yrs ago when the chimney cleaning people talked me into one - just to keep birds from making nests in it and squirrles out, even though we never had that problem before - sucker that I am.Yep, hairdryer works wonders creating the needed draw. The flue doesn't look very big to me, but if it was too small, the problem should have been immediate, not wait 14 yrs. to exhibit itself. And the chimney people who cleaned and tuck pointed the inside and built up the outside that was crumbling around the flue liner didn't say anything about the flue in the fire box, and didn't have an answer as to why we get all this smoke. BTW, we have a FHA furnace, hot water tank, overhead stove fan, upstairs bathroom exhaust, just to answer the question posed.So........there's gotta be someone, somewhere, who would know about this. Anyone else have an idea?
*Adrianne,This is a good one. You checked on all the obvious problems maybee look for some not so obvious. House shifting due to natural disaster or time could change chimney. A tree growing nearby could have reached a height so as to start to move wind differently. Any changes to roof line. Start thinking outside the box. Also I was taught when you build a fire to light one piece of paper and hole it up to the top of the firebox. This starts the draw and tells you if your chimney is blocked. Good luck.Rick TukPS call a Priest, dont rule out deamons.
*Hey, there was another response here from I forget who, because it went away so fast. Where'd it go??? Can't imagine the author decided to omit it, since he took the time to give a pretty detailed response (which I appreciate), so what's goin' on????And thanks, Rick, for your suggestions. Tree growth could be a definite possibility, since it's the only viable change I can imagine. No change to the roofline, though. Can't imagine the house settled enough to make that happen but not notice it anywhere else, but what do I know? (That's why I ask you swamis here for advice!) Also, I'll try the "paper in the hole" trick and see if that helps any. (I know, you meant HOLD in the sentence)
*Creating a draw on a cold fireplace is just standard operating procedure. I used to always just light a newspaper, without wadding it. This "flash" fire creates a nice quick draw. I never tried starting a fire without one, so I don't know if mine would have smoked.If the fire smokes while a fire is burning, then you have a flaw, and it needs to be re-built. Otherwise, enjoy.blue
*Blue: Smoke only occurs in the initial lighting. Never smokes when it finally gets going, but by that time the house is FULL of heavy, thick smoke - not that white fluffy stuff - this is serious, nasty, you're-gonna-die kind of smoke, which is why I keep trying to find some kind of "chimney engineer" to maybe come look at it. Those inserts are getting serious consideration lately! P.S. The wood is not wet, either, it's been on the front covered porch for 3 yrs. All mixed hardwood. Just in case someone wonders. Thanks for your input.
*Don't know if any of this will help... I also was taught to always take a piece of newspaper and hold it up in the flue to get a draft going... the cold,dense air in the chimney will definitely resist the initial draft of the fire, warming up the flue usually helps. Also, I agree that a weet chimney will be much more difficult to warm up. The fact that it happens on dry days is not necessarily proof that this isn't the case... especially if it is a brick chimney, they can hold water for a long time after a rain. Have a good mason check the pointing on the outside and the mortar wash cap on the top... these often crack, especially around the flue liner, and let water in, especially if there is no metal chimney cap. Only other thing I can think of would be if you did some interior remodeling... Presumably this is an outside chimney, but I suppose that if you had insulated recently against the face of the chimney next to the house, it could aggravate the problem by preventing house heat from keeping the chimney warm. Good luck.
*Sounds like you have gotten a lot of good advise. AFTER you find the problem and cure it, then consider the insert. The problem will be there even after you get an insert. I have had an insert for about 20 years and can tell you this: If I start a fire without some quick burning material ( I always use newspaper ) then I will get some smoke back into the room. It sounds like the guys are right on track about getting the flue warm so it will draw. You also said that it is only a problem when you first start, and then draws properly. Still can't figure why it started after all these years?? Are you sure that the chimney sweeps actually cleaned all the creosote out and that the chimney is not smaller now due to build up? Have you looked down into it yourself? Good luck.
*Adrianne,Perhaps the damper. Have you ever moved or dislodged it while inspecting the problem? The stops must be in alignmentto allow damper to open fully. A common problem. Easily overlooked.Food for thought, Rick
*Rick: If the damper's gotten moved or dislodged, it wasn't by one of us. I don't know how wide it's supposed to be, but it sure looks small to me. Chimney guy may have done that when he cleaned/fixed it, but how would I know? And it happened long before he got here, but it could be from the last time. Is it something that'd be noticeable that, when he cleaned it, if that was the problem, he'd notice it? Is there some kind of test to see if it moves? I asked him about the problem and he didn't have an answer. The only problem we sometimes have is when we turn the damper screw (which is on the face of the brick), the long rod that goes into the damper to open/close it will come out. Actually, you can feel the damper drop off the end of the rod, so it has to be lifted up a little and the rod guided back in. That hasn't happened in quite a while, but it's no problem sticking it back in again, and it does go all the way back in, so it's not like it's not opening it completely - it is. And it has no bearing on the problem of smoke backing up. Wonder if the fire dept. would know anything? Think I should try them? After we've tried the other things, like the "paper in the hole" thing suggested by someone, and checking the damper.I appreciate everyone's help on this. Hopefully someday an answer/solution will be found. Will post if and when that day happens!!
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One solution is to install a fan mounted on top of the chimney flu liner, on the outside. They are made of cast aluminum and stainless steel. One such brand is the "Exhusto Chimney Fan". They aren't cheap but less than rebuilding the chimney. Contact: http://www.exhausto.com P.O. Box 720651, Atlanta GA 30358; 800/255-2923
One of these should work regardless of what is stopping the draft now. I've built well over a thousand fireplaces and it sounds like several things could be contributing to the problem, not just one item. I've seen these used on cabins in high elevations where a canyon wall makes for very little draw because of inversion like weather. Hope this helps.
Michael Leistiko
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I know that it has been mentioned, but lets talk about trees near your chimmney. How tall and close are they? I have seen this problem before. Certainly if they are within a few feet it maybe your problem.
*Yes, there ARE trees pretty close. 4 of those arborvitae (sp?) that are about 8-10 ft. high, butted up right to the edge of the chimney. The chimney and trees make a backwards 7 shape. The trees would be at the top going across, and the chimney would be the line coming down. To put it another way, a left corner right angle. Don't know how to draw on this thing. The trees aren't quite as high as the roof, 'cuz it peaks right where the chimney is, and the actual chimney is about another 6 feet higher. How would the trees affect it if they're not high enough to block the wind? Thanks for your help, also.
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Never had this problem previous to about 4 yrs. ago. When making a fire, the smoke enters the house and doesn't draw up the chimney. You can actually see the air blowing DOWN the chimney, pushing the smoke into the room. The walls and ceiling, along with everything else, get soot all over them. Once it got so bad it was like the house was on fire - the smoke was so thick we couldn't see each other 5 feet away.
Chimney was cleaned and repaired this summer. No new buildings erected anywhere, nothing on the house changed.
Unbelievable, but the only way we can get it to draw is, when we start a fire, stick a hairdryer up into the flue area so it blows out the chimney, taking the smoke with it.
Any ideas/help before I have to call - who? - a chimney cleaner??? Who'd I have to call, anyway? Are there chimney engineers?