Here’s one for you, current part of multi phase addition calls for one section that’s only 1 story addition 6′ by 8′ outside corner.
Sits on new 8″ wide foundation wall on top 16″ wide 12″ thick footing, bottom at 42″. Inside corners joist will land on existing solid field stone foundation wall.
As required drawings come back from architect who specs out, get this 2×12’s on 16″ centers for a 6′ span. Now what the heck anybody can throw something together by mass overbuilding and be safe.
My understanding is the job of an architect/engineer and the scinces of, is to be able to combine the elements or design/style/art with strength, yet minimizing required matterial/cost and maintaining a saftey factor of 7. That is the art and science of that discipline, expecially on a paid hourly rate to put some effort into.
Who can’t just say, “yup use 8×8 beams on 12″ center and 2″x10″s as sub floor so this 4’x4′ floor won’t sag” than bill out a full hour of work?
Replies
have you thot about asking the architect what he has in mind for this ?
That makes no sense at all
Barry E-Remodeler
nc is calling out the architect without asking the architect's reason
if this were an arbitration case would'n t you at least like to know the architect's reasoning ?
what doesn't make sense is assuming we have all the factsMike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Mike,Do I need to get out my smilie face?I'm not sure the OP knows who to ask
Barry E-Remodeler
yes..... smiley faces help......
i guess you're right
but first thing i would do is call or meet with the architectMike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
It's in fact overbuilding but not structural. His reasoning was room for insulation. Never seen 12" of insulation except for attic. Using the same reasoning, by calling for 2x12's for the sake of insulation, not sure why he didn't in turn call for 2x6 or 8 exterior walls.
Ooops, I better not post photos of the floor we frame tomorrow, esp not the insulation part.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
'...not sure why he didn't in turn call for 2x6 or 8 exterior walls.'
As it says on many of the plans I see: If in doubt, ASK!
Last project when working full time job for commercial firm, not residential, RFI's where forbidden. Supper got a** reamed for daring to question in house architects and engineers. So we just built anything we knew to be a problem, than corrected when others realized the issue, ie owner or it conflicted with something else to the point progress halted. Than waited around for the CO, by than costing even more. Stupid, but no field personal where in trouble after that point. Same pair of pants but different pocket.Really though for this thread it was just more of a WTF, not like we didn't go back to architect for info.
What is the depth of the existing floor joists?
I will often go with 2x10's or 2x12's to match the existing to keep the foundation walls the same height.
Jon Blakemore
RappahannockINC.com Fredericksburg, VA
seems like today, arch want total control of job, as designer, project mangers, construction managers.
Generally speaking, an architect can't prescribe engineered solutions, only an engineer with a stamp can. So an architect is just as likely to overbuild/cya to avoid engineering costs as anybody else. Generally speaking.
Sure, they should know better, and they probably do. But if the building department has questions, the architect generally doesn't have the authority to debate. They may know how to do the calcs, but they can't submit those calcs. If you want tight specs, forget the architect and hire an engineer.
I've got a degree in Architecture, and I value good design, don't get me wrong. But an architect's license is nearly meaningless in many senses, compared to an engineer's stamp. If you could choose between a licensed engineer with good design skills and a licensed architect with good engineering skills, the engineer would be able to do more for you.
Or, it could have been based on existing floor joist depth (as already mentioned), or insulation requirements, or ducting, or any number of other things.
k
Nope not based on existing floor height, duct work or any of the such, just pure over build. Here's the funny thing I forgot to add before; The architect in this case was actually a very good framer for 10yrs. before becoming and architect. So he knows better too, from the build side.Just a case of not applying himself and taking the easy route. This case not a real impact, again only a 6x8 add. Heck the building dept. would probably even accept a 2x6 on 16 center for a 6' span. It's just more of the principle, a "come on" moment.
"Just a case of not applying himself and taking the easy route."Yep, does sound like that.I do enlighten myself though, now that I wear both hats.Current job example, I drew up the plans sitting here in the office after spending a day on the job measuring and shooting photos, but still had to make a couple assumptions.Then when on the job starting demo, I could see ways to finesse things better and save about $800. Change of POV meant change of detailing.Point being, communicate with the guy.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
I can think of a couple reasons for doing it his way, but the background info re the rest of th e house and the soils types is missing from your post, so who knows?
Welcome to the
Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
where ...
Excellence is its own reward!
Floor joist span tables are in almost all of the residential codes. Very easy to understand. Look it up and ask him.
Runnerguy
The architect can probably spell, though.
Well, good for him. "The architect can probably spell, though."How about incorrect comma usage?When you point a finger there's 4 back at you.