I’ve started tearing into the new investment property and i’m trying to decide whether or not to replace the siding. Currently the house has aluminum with asbestos below.
If I decide to get rid of the aluminum can I just toss the asbestos into the dumpster? I’ve heard since its not friable its okay.
Finally, should I just pull the siding and reside over the asbestos again?
Replies
Typically, a big dumpster of asbestos is going to get yourself into trouble. Friable or not, what happens at the dump? I think you need good honest professional advise.
In Maine you need to be licensed with the DEP,pay a fee for removal.double bag siding in 6 mil poly,then dispose of in a proper landfill.
Probably each State is different
Hate to add to your woes, check with your local building authority.
I would go over the asbestos with vinylsiding and 3/8' or 1/2' GreenGuard XPS Foam. Simple why to go. If you said that "you would like to remove asbestos on your own home" then yes but the hassle on the investment property no way!
I spoke with a siding guy today and he said all they do here is cover it with rigid insulation. I still havent decided if i'm going to pull the aluminum siding or not. The problem is that i'm adding an addition and i'm not sure about mixing aluminum with vinyl siding. Also I may be moving some windows and i'd rather not have to patch in on the aluminum siding.
The stuff is prettyy brittle, nailing through it will often (always?) crack/break it and I would be leery of just covering it.
A quick search on google found a lot of stuff, including:
http://www.orcbs.msu.edu/environ/programs_guidelines/asbestos/Asbestos_Management_Program.pdf
Class II asbestos work involves the removal of ACM which is not thermal system insulation or surfacing material. This includes the removal of asbestos-containing wallboard, floor tile and sheeting, roofing and siding shingles, and construction mastics.
Training for Class II work may be the same as for Class I work (asbestos worker or contractor/supervisor) or may be 8 hours of training, including hands-on training, in the specific type of material to be removed. Removal of the following materials falls under the 8-hour class listing: roofing materials, flooring materials, siding materials, ceiling tiles, and transite panels. An annual refresher is required for all workers.
From the OSHA:
When removing cement-like asbestos-containing siding or shingles, or asbestos-containing transite panels on building exteriors other than roofs, employers must ensure that employees adhere to the following:
* Do not cut, abrade, or break siding, shingles, or transite panels unless methods less likely to result in asbestos fiber release cannot be used;
* Spray each panel or shingle with amended water before removing (amended water is water to which a surfactant [wetting agent] has been added to increase the ability of the liquid to penetrate ACM);
* Lower immediately to the ground any unwrapped or unbagged panels or shingles using a covered dust-tight chute, crane, or hoist, or place them in an impervious waste bag or wrap them in plastic heeting and lower them to the ground no later than the end of the work shift; and
* Cut nails with flat, sharp instruments.
Thanks......I think. Geez, wonder what this will cost? think its time to take a sample to the lab and see for sure what i've got.
I live in surrounding Boston area, and I have been doing vinyl siding along time (I hate the stuff, HO seem to like it.) I just finish three decker in Boston it was same thing "asbestos". Remove alum. siding and then nail on 3/8" XPS Greenguard foam (fanfold) and nailed with a roofing gun nail, 6 nails for a panel is enough (siding is going on the foam ;) ).
I'm not talk about the Addition because I don't no the size, what side is it on, one story or two story etc.....
P.S I use a dust mask and gloves when I remove siding from the asbestos. It's not no furnace or ducts :)
Edited 9/3/2005 6:36 pm ET by MRinger
Edited 9/3/2005 6:37 pm ET by MRinger
Edited 9/3/2005 6:38 pm ET by MRinger
What we are allowed to do as a homeowner is remove the siding while wearing the appropriate respirator and clothing, and double bag it and then......................take it to the dump.
If your a contractor here the rules are totally different and its costly.
I foundit strange after talking to the city asbestos guy about the process. I asked him again and he repeated "Double bag and take it to the dump"
Who was I to argue.
I have one last wall of asbestos siding and i;m finished!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
WWPD
Ah, a glimmer of hope. The house is in my name not my companys. I was kind of thinking about doing just what you said. I'll talk to the city and see where I can dump the stuff.
I have a very jaded view about asbestos. About 10 years ago I took a safety course for a job I had. The instructor told us the way they finally got asbestos to cause cancer in a rat was to sew a piece of the stuff into the rat!
Dont get me wrong, i'm not saying that working with the stuff everyday isnt dangerous but I think its a little over blown.
The problem is, when they installed the aluminum siding, most of the shingles have already broken from nailing thru them- they're just being held in place by the aluminum siding in front of them. If you strip the aluminum, you'll most likely see 50% or more of the asbestos shingles hit the ground.
Can you re-paint the aluminum and live with it? Otherwise you're in for a real mess.
Bob
The asbestos thing never fails to amaze me. Im sure it is
dangerous stuff but if so, howcum they let you put stuff
over it? You shoot nails into it it must surely spit
out some chips and dust likely worst than if a small
piece of it breaks off. Besides, any house Ive worked
on always seems to have a bunch of shingles cracked in
half or missing corners.
If you carefully put a flat bar behind it and gently
lift the shingle off the house just a bit then you
can easily pull the nail right out with pliers. Then
you can place it in a bag. Pretty much as they recommend.
And yes, I asked at the landfill about disposal and the
guy said "double bag it and dispose with the C&D."
It seems to be a state by state thing whether or not
homeowners can remove or not. The big thing seems to
be tranporting the stuff to the dump. They want you
to get a skip which is properly covered and all.
If you own a house and you can legally remove it
yourself, I would while it is still legal. Id
suit up, gloves, respirator, and put down drop cloths
maybe even make a plastic tent like you were doing
siding work in winter.
But Id advise against just taking it off and bagging
it and landfilling it. Id worry about liability in
the future if somebody says "hey, that house was sold
to you with asbestos siding. Now it is gone. Where is
your permit and who did it? Could be serious trouble
if you don't make sure you have the ok first. Id get
it in writing.
Have you had it tested to see if it contains asbestos?
J.P.
No I have not had it tested yet but I will this week. The house was built in 1940 though so i'm assuming that it is. I also plan to find out where I can dump it if it is asbestos.
Wise choice to have it tested. If it does not contain asbestos then just put it out with your regular construction debris. As others posted, you may be able to get by just with double bagging.J.P.http://www.jpkfinefurniture.com
Either way its got to go. It would be great if it was clean but if not guess i'll just buy alot of bags.
Am I the only one that sees a problem with putting "deadly" rigid asbestos tiles into plastic garbage bags then transporting to a landfill? Even the thicker const grade bags arent that strong.
My neighbor had some asbestos pipe insulation removed and the company that did it used "contractors" bags and double bagged the insulation and taped each bag shut with what looked like plastic packaging tape that had "Hazardous Material" printed on it. Not to high tech or overly cautious. But probably adequate given the type of material.I guess it goes to a special place in the dump where they dont drive over it in those huge bulldozers and bust it all up. Although I always remember those guys driving over everything trying to mash it to bits and pack it in real tight.J.P.http://www.jpkfinefurniture.com
Don't use bags, get some 4 mil plastic (or whatever thickness the locality requires) and wrap it up.I envision a long length of plastic, lay down a shingle, fold it over, lay another shingle, fold it over, etc.Tape it all up. Then wrap that up with more plastic.Rich BeckmanAnother day, another tool.
Well here's what happened today.
I talked to the city this morning and they sent me to their haz-mat trash collectors. I talked to the guy and he said, "No problem, just bring it on down (nom fee)". So I ask about double wrapping it in plastic he says, "Doesnt matter to us. However you're comfortable, we handle it all with machines once its here."
That was easy.
It is very much a state by state thing.
Ask your local building inspector. He might have the answer or he might be able to tell you who to call.
Or just call Michigan's Department of Environmental Management (whatever it is called there).
A guy at Indiana DEM told me there was no problem with me, as a contractor, removing asbestos siding. I didn't ask my insurance company, but I bet they wouldn't be too thrilled.
But to get it to a landfill...double bagging (wrapping), get an application, fill it out, send it in (I assume with a fee), and then get a permit.
Your mileage may vary!
Rich Beckman
Another day, another tool.
Get back to us on how this goes. Asbestos seems to be a
big scary bogeyman but the real poop on removal, LEGAL
removal, may be different. I posted a question not long
ago and got a answer that I though hit the nail on
the head: it isn't whether it will work or not or
whether it is safe or not, it is whether the inspector
will sign off on it or not.
Same here. KNOW THE REQUIREMENTS, you chose to wiggle,
fine, but you cannot make a decision without knowing
where you stand.
I worry about liability, even if it is your own house.
Some guy two owners later has the soil around the
house sampled and they fine a tiny piece (and I mean
tiny) of asbestos and you get hung out to dry.
I used to paint. Think of all the lead chips that
landed away from the drop cloths and are in the
soil. Now you read how you cannot even sand walls
inside a house without being terrified of killing
every kid on the block due to lead dust.
If I live until retirement Ill be amazed. Think
of all the work we did 20 or more years ago without
the benefit of respirators, hearing protection etc.
We may well pay the price. We may skate. Same for
asbestos. It may affect only a few in the larger
scale of things or it may only affect those who
smoke or whatever. Im glad things have tightened
up but Im like everyone else, not amused when
I have to pay some guy 10k to have my shingles
removed.
It is never easy! :-)