Attn Plumbers: Help Please
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The Problem: Tub doesn’t drain properly
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When we take a shower the water will back up into the tub. Eventually the water will drain out, but very slowly.
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I’ve tried to use my snake to clean out the line from the tub. I unscrewed the drain plug cover and tried to work the snake down the line. Although I didn’t get very far. Please see Under Tub.jpeg. The drain line, instead of make a nice sweeping bend makes an abrupt 90 then another 90 up to a drum trap. My snake won’t make that turn.
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I unscrewed the drum trap cover and tried to work my way back (towards the tub drain) to no avail, the bends are just too sharp for my snake. Then I tried to work from the trap towards the man drain. The snake wouldn’t make that turn either. You can’t really see from the pictures (I’ll try and get a better one tomorrow), but it goes straight for 1†then 45’s up for about 2†then straight again to the wye.
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And as of you may have noticed the drain line is galvanized pipe L I’ve read that it’s better to just replace all galvanized pipe with PVC, but the problem is that the drain line runs directly under the tub. So to replace it would have pull out the tub, ruin the tile and cut up the floor to tie into the main stack (see bathroom plan.jpeg).
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I’m not sure if it’s better to try and replace the existing section of drain w/ pvc and tie it into the galvanized pipe? Or if someone have a better way of cleaning out the line?
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I am not a plumber (obviously), but I am very handy. If this isn’t too difficult to fix I’d rather do it myself than pay a plumber $90/hr to do it.
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Thanks for the help!
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Trevor
Replies
You didn't give us a picture of the tub itself. Does the drain have a toggle lever in the overflow opening, or do you open/close the drain by directly manipulating the drain plug.
If there's the toggle lever in the overflow opening, remove the screws holding the metal plate in place and extract the toggle lever mechanism (should be a couple of rods hooked together, with a cylinder at the far end). Then check to see if the drain is clear. Often this mechanism is misadjusted, causing the drain to seem plugged.
happy?
Hey Dan & the other Dan too.
Am I the only plumber in here NOT named Dan?------ LOL
Did you notice in his main drain pic that the vent is coming off the "combo" flat.
I noticed he has more access to the trap than I think we ever have the luxuray of getting.
Replacing the trap on his tub would be a snap if the trip lever is not the problem."There are about 550000000 firearms in worldwide circulation. That's one firearm for every twelve people on the planet. The only question is...........How do we arm the other eleven?" Yuri Orlov<!----><!----><!---->
not being either a plumber or a guy named Dan ...
I'll say ... if I was seeing right ....
looks like turning the old drum into a P would do the trick ... help lose the hairpin curve at the same time.
I was also confused by the access space too!
Jeff
Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
I'm with you on this one Bill, and I would give that old galvanized a serious look at replacement too. That stuff won't have much more than a 3/4" hole through the crude that has built up in it over the years. I would also bet the threaded pipe ends are close to rusting through. A little banging around with a snake and they may just start to leak anyway. Probably less tha $40 material and 2 hours work to make it well for another 20-30 years :)
Dave
You are right about the space. Drum traps are not common in our area. If you do see them they are usually in very old homes (teens and twenties) and are connected to the old lead pipe drains. And usually buried half underneath the tub so you can barely see them let alone clean them. DanT
Thanks for all the quick responses.
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I’m going to try and answer the questions in order they were asked:
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“You didn't give us a picture of the tub itself. Does the drain have a toggle lever in the overflow opening, or do you open/close the drain by directly manipulating the drain plug.”
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I’ll get a picture of that when I get home. The drain works on a toggle lever. I pulled the drain plug totally out, replaced the cover, and then took a shower and the tub still filled up. So I’m pretty sure that’s not the problem. I was able to get the snake down the overflow to the first 90 bend, but couldn’t get it to turn the corner. When I pulled the snake out out, it was clean.
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“Did you run water in the drum trap yet? Still slow draining?”
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Do you mean like plugging the tub drain and using a hose to “pressure wash” the line out? No, haven’t tried that yet.
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“Looks like ya gotta 3/8" snake-- should go through the trap and on down stream. Whats on the end of the snake-- big screwy tampon removing thing?”
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yup. I’ll try and take that off see if I can snake it through.
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“When feeding the auger feed real slow while spinning it--drill operated?”
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Nope, hand operated. You guys recommend drill operated?
“I noticed he has more access to the trap than I think we ever have the luxury of getting. Replacing the trap on his tub would be a snap if the trip lever is not the problem.”
Yeah, I actually do have a lot of access to the bottom of the tub.
“looks like turning the old drum into a P would do the trick ... help lose the hairpin curve at the same time.”
This is really what I’d like to do…any tips?
“Probably less than $40 material and 2 hours work to make it well for another 20-30 years :)”
I’d much rather spend 2 hours replacing it, than 2 hours snake-ing it J
“Did the drain work well in the past?”
Not really. We had a super restrictive shower head. It seemed to drain ok when the shower was on, but the water would only trickle out. We replaced it with a new head (a water saving one) and the difference was like night and day. But with more flow, comes more water in the line, and more water to drain.
“If you do see them they are usually in very old homes”
The house was built in the 1960.
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I’m really leaning towards replacing the drain, if it wouldn’t be that hard. What would I need as for replacement parts? Seems like I spend more time going back and forth to HD to get supplies than I do actually working on the problem.
Thanks everyone for all the help!
Trevor
Well, I'm no plumber, but every galvanized drain line I've ever seen was so plugged up on the inside with corrosion, it's a wonder anything can get down them at all. I had a similar situation in a kitchen drain that ran along the ceiling in the basement. It was always slow, so I cut it out and put in PVC. The thing was plugged to the extent that it would be tough to get a pencil through the small hole left in the middle of the line. Since you have already chopped at least one hole in the ceiling and you'll be patching anyway, I'd just bite the bullet, rip out the galvanized and put in copper or plastic alltogether.
Mike HennessyPittsburgh, PA
What would you need for parts: not that much. If you wanted to replace the line from that Y where the drain and the vent line meet, you would need a threaded male adapter (assuming you could unscrew the old pipe, it usually rusts together within a few minutes of installation), a length of pipe (2"), a 2" P trap, a couple 45 turns, and an adapter to go over your tub drain, which is 1 1/2" diameter. Add in a small bottle of glue and a saw to put it together, and a largish pipe wrench to get the galvy pipe out and you should'nt have to go back to the store more that 5 or 6 times, if you're like me anyhow. Anyone else want to point out what I'm forgetting? I'm not a professional plumber.
You'll probably want to cut out the drum trap out with a sawzall or hacksaw, so you only have to unscrew the one pipe. I can't remember if this was a situation where you could unscrew things from one end or not, it's often impossible to unscrew without cutting first.
You should snake the line from the Y down when you open this thing up, and stick a garden hose in there to flush it out.
You would be well advised to print out a picture or two that you posted here to bring to the plumbing store- if you go to a good one, they'll be able to help you out. Where I am, Lowe's actually has a good plumbing guy- Home Despot doesn't seem to have anyone working in the plumbing department.
zak
Isn't there a sort of mini no-hub that can be used to join the plastic to the galv? So that he can just cut the galv a few inches short of the stack and couple on there? (After reaming out the remaining stub, of course.)
If ignorance is bliss why aren't more people
happy?
Yeah, I've seen those things, the rubber thing with a couple wormdrive clamps. If it were me, I would try to get the whole peice of galvanized out first, and have one less thing to leak through the ceiling. But you're right, he might as well pick up a hubless connector while he's at the store.
zak
I'm just figuring that the thing's likely to break off when he tries to unscrew it.
If ignorance is bliss why aren't more people
happy?
UPDATE:
I figured that the galvanized pipe would break it I tried to unscrew it, so I opted to just cup the pipe and here’s what I found (see attached pictures). It was pretty nasty; no wonder the shower wasn’t draining!
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I cleaned as much of the junk out as I could. Then snaked the line all the way back to the main drain a couple times to make sure there weren’t any other obstructions. Then I cut my new PVC, did a test fit, then glued everything up. Then used a Fernco adaptor to join the PVC to the galvanized pipe.
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Let me tell you, what a difference in drainage! No standing water in the tub at all J
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Thanks to everyone for all of your help. I really appreciate it.
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Trevor
You did a nice neat looking job. Glad that things worked out for you.
View Image
'Nemo me impune lacesset'No one will provoke me with impunity
OK, who's been crapping in the tub?
"A job well done is its own reward. Now would you prefer to make the final payment by cash, check or Master Card?"
I took out a 100ft waterline to the house that looked that bad.
be it's been reported that the city water workers tell their relatives not to drink the water
'Nemo me impune lacesset'No one will provoke me with impunity
Edited 3/21/2006 8:14 pm ET by razzman
>>it's been reported that the city water workers tell their relatives not to drink the water
Great, now my coffee will taste extra special tomorrow. ;-)
"A job well done is its own reward. Now would you prefer to make the final payment by cash, check or Master Card?"
illeagles...Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!<!----><!---->
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
Glad to hear that you found the blockage and fixed it. One question I have (for anyone who is reading this post) concerns the use of the fernco coupler on the drain line. Because of the use of two different materials (slightly difference inside diameter sizes), doesn't it create a future blockage point? I mean, since the connection is not continuous, it seems that it's easy for stuff to build up between the two pipes such that it eventually creates a blockage.
Or is this really not a concern?
That's kind of been my opinion, but when you think about it, threaded fittings are the same way- they're wider between the pipe ends. To some extent, abs and pvc isn't entirely smooth on the inside, but it's pretty close.
zak
2" black iron - 2" galvanized iron - 2" PVC - 2"ABS
Go by schedukes ie the wall thickness.
There is no real difference in the I D as long as it's the same schedule"There are about 550000000 firearms in worldwide circulation. That's one firearm for every twelve people on the planet. The only question is...........How do we arm the other eleven?" Yuri Orlov<!----><!----><!---->
new blade for the sawzall:) and primer/cleaner for the PVC glueup.
'Nemo me impune lacesset'No one will provoke me with impunity
I agree with DanH on the first attempt, pull the trip lever drain.
My second opinion is replace the drain. But since there would be considerable damage I would go to my third opinion......hire a pro drain cleaner. They have a variety of snakes and tricks of the trade that can help out. I consider my drain guy invalueable for just these occasions. DanT
Good pictures,
For my 2cents worth here goes. Did you run water in the drum trap yet? Still slow draining? the problem is south of that point then and not a trip and overflow problem. Drains good-- go back to your drain and overflow assy.
Looks like ya gotta 3/8" snake-- should go through the trap and on down stream. Whats on the end of the snake-- big screwy tampon removing thing? Can you remove it and have just the end of the snake to make the turns.
If the blockage is past the wye- snake it from the vent.
When feeding the auger feed real slow while spinning it--drill operated? let it thread it's way down the pipe.. Lotsa hot water to flush everything.
If the block is in that 5' run under the tub-- I believe there's enough room to cut and unthread the pipe to swap out.... can't tell past the Wye.
Good Luck
Why don't you try an accordion plunger, the one with the ripples on them.You have to plug the flip lever hole with a rag, put 6 inch of warm water in the tub and start plunging! It takes a lot of strength to get the full power out of the plunger, it is like lifting 75 lbs up and down very rapidly, it is very noisy also. I have about a 75 percent success rate using a plunger to unstop tubs.
Did the drain work well in the past? If so it could be a partially
block main stack go on the roof and snake it out past the tub.
My money is on the galvanized pipe. It is cloged with internal crud and corrosion. You need to replace it. That being said; try sucking out the pipes with a shop wet/ dry vac. Works better than a plunger most of the time.
Unfortunately I already tried that. Plugged the tub drain, unscrewed the top of the drum trap, stuck the shop vac hose in there and turned it on. It sucked out the water in the trap, but that was about it.
Trevor
I had this problem in my 1930"s house which also has a drum trap. The pipe between the tub drain and the drum trap was not the problem. Check this by sucking the trap dry and have someone pour water into the drain. If it flows in readily, your problem is downstream of the trap. I was able to get a snake into the pipe exiting the trap and pulled out lots of gunk, plus lots of rust residue. I then used one of those long, flexible plastic funnels used for transmission fluid and was able to insert the end of it into the out going pipe of the trap and poured a heavy duty drain cleaner into the funnel, forcing the drain cleaner into the downstream pipe. Rinsed and repeated several times and no problems in 2 years.
I'll give that a try.
Thanks!
Trevor
Home Depot sells a balloon type device that you can put on the end of a water hose and insert into the 1/1/2 line. it expands inside the drain and uses a jet of high pressure water which in most cases will clear the blockage.
I have a washing machine hose with the balloon device on one end and a hose valve on the other end. I attach this to the water hose for control.
The washing machine hose and balloon should be inserted as far into the drain as possible past any vents, hang on to it and open the valve.
If you have to replace the trap etc you should use the rubber connectors with stainless steel clamps for making the connections. HD sells these for about $3.50. You need a 2 inch to 1/1/2 inch connector to tie back to the galvanized drain if you don't replace all of it.
Rent an air ram. It's a air tank that you pressurize with a pump, point it to the drain and pull the trigger (Be sure to plug the top drain vent). 40PSI of air hits the standing water and drives the plug out past where it was stuck. Works like a charm and much easier than a hand or powered snake.
If this duznt' work, it is probably time to pull the drain apart.
Yep, they work, but I've also blown traps on other fixtures empty. I have also blown apart corroded galvanized pipe with them. Not a pretty sight.
Dave