I almost hate to ask this question, cuz it’s probably very basic. But …
All of my work has been textured walls and ceilings, exceopt this one is smooth finish throughout. The sheetrockers were cretins and mangled the hanging pretty badly, but the taper managed to make it look pretty good. However, he was in a bit of a hurry and took the easy way out. He only used two coats of mud, whereas I would have preferred three, but it looked ok after sanding. We used a PC dustless sander and he went over most of the surface with a hand block. As he was finishing, he said that the primer coat would hide many of the things that looked like defects, but wouyld probably make a few hidden things show. What an understatement.
I have more pinholes than a sponge, several places where the paper was sanded just a tad too far, and most of the insode 45* corners need work. If I had the time, and money, and the mental attitude (I’m ready to get this part behind me) I would skim coat the whole thing again. Short of doing that, what’s the best way to deal with the pinholes and scuffed paper? The corners I can handle.
I’m sorry, I thought you wanted it done the right way.
Replies
Hey Ed,
When I lived in the SouthWest I also only did textured finishing. Here in the NorthEast its mostly flat. What I started doing was taking joint compound and thinning it so I could put it on with a paint roller. Then 5-15 mins later with a light touch run a wide knife over it. I've used it successfully about 3 times. The D-mix by Dino sounds pretty promising. Lots of good feedback on that in this forum.
Good Luck,
Mark
Yep, the D-mix is probably the way to go ... next time. But for now ... the wall has been primed and I don't want to skim coat the whole thing.
I'm sorry, I thought you wanted it done the right way.
Retop coat it with compound, sand and spot prime. Not sure about the D-Mix method as I understand it, it gives a fairly slick finish. Which might flash thru unless you plan on doing the whole wall.
For the pinholes, use lightweight joint compound thinned just a little. some recommend soap as an additive, but I haven't tried it, nor found it necessary. Use high pressure on your taping knife and go over the areas at least twice allowing to dry (it will shrink a little) between coats. After it's completely dry, you can probably sand it with the palm of your hand, but use 200 grit paper very lightly.
I've also used this product http://www.muralo.com/products/spackle-lite.html with great success. Fewer coats are needed because it actually expands slightly when filling small holes.
For the fuzzy paper, use as many coats of primer as it needs to stop absorbing, then sand lightly. After that, one more coat of primer.
That should pretty much do it.
-Don
Ok guys, I need some advice. I know you can't see the problem, so guess a little. Is Don right? Can I solve the fuzzy paper problem with more coats of primer? I sprayed on one coat, and it was tinted so I know I got good coverage, but I also know it's not real thick. I have accepted that I probably need to D-mix the walls, and I'm ready to do that later this week, but if I can avoid that ... all the better.
Is there a top brand of drywall primer? I have ready access to Sherwin Wms and Benny Moore.
I'm sorry, I thought you wanted it done the right way.
I have read that the cure for fuzzy drywall paper is to apply a coat of shellac to it. Haven't tried it myself but have kept it in mind in case the need arises.
The fuzzy paper problem occurs more when you spray the paint on, it can be fixed after being primed by sanding it off.
Spraying paint is most of your problems.
In fact Im blamming it.
Roll a heavy coat of primer on.
I would use joint compound and paint mix, then screen smooth.
Tim Mooney
Joint compound and paint mix. Are you trying to invent M-Mix ? The Arkansas equivalent of D-mix? :)
What proportions do you use?I'm sorry, I thought you wanted it done the right way.
Its a mix I explained on here a few years ago.
Its not D mix . D mix has P paris in it and its trowled slick according to YC Friend.
Four gallons joint compound and a gallon of pva primer.
Add water to mix consistency for brushing and rolling.
Its a first coat and a texture that doesnt have to show a texture.
I put it on pretty heavy . When the water starts to sit in the drywall , back roll it to finish. When its dry, sweep 100 grit screen over it . It can be made thick enough to be a slight texture , but I use it for slick wall, normally in preparation for enamel. It has several purposes for what I use it for;
On a new house I spray it and back roll it . Its a very cheap material to prepare for slick drywall for quality work. Its not as fast as the new ready made mixes but it so much cheaper .
It does a good job covering minor inperfections . It covers sand paper burned tape, slightly "not filled nails" , small scrapes and nicks, etc.
However its not a paint and is not acceptable finish coat.
Tim Mooney
Tim, after you roll it out, can you trowel it to a smooth finish? You seemed to indicate that you use it for texturing. Sorry, but I'm a little dense this week ... month ... whatever.
I'm sorry, I thought you wanted it done the right way.
Ed , Im careful not to mention texture to a customer because they think of something rough. It is not rough, but in honesty its a texture. I call it a "finish precoat" . That has always helped not to confuse the issue of hiding the small stuff to create a slick wall that looks good under paint. It looks like several roller coats of paint over the years . There is a noticeable finish over the drywall.
If I wanted a noticeable texture , Id blow one in orange peel, splatter , or wipe down.
I have never troweled that application. I have finished the whole surface area slick with mud but not with that method. I use a 12 inch float box and skip 10 inch rows. The box is set on tight feather closed down only omitting a small skim coat of mud. After that application dries , I fill in the 10 inch rows. I follow that up with a sweeping sanding, but there isnt much to sand. Thats the most expensive slick finish because the blemishes are fixed prior to that coat. That finish is used in high gloss areas normally assosiated with food service where the surface is actually cleaned including ceilings on a regular schedule as requested by health inspectors. The idea behind that finish is no crevices to hide bacteria . Ive done the finish for people that had money to spend that wanted what they thought was the best , but I doubt they ever cleaned it.
Tim Mooney
Edited 6/9/2005 10:12 pm ET by TIMMOONEY52
Edited 6/13/2005 9:59 am ET by TIMMOONEY52
Ok, I know the look ... a real light stipple from the roller nap.
All the other walls inj the house are true flat finish. Can the M-mix be troweled smooth?
I'm sorry, I thought you wanted it done the right way.
You sent that last message as I was editing more to my last one that you already read.
Thats a good question if that finish can be troweled as Ive never tried it . My edit above should be self explanning.
I have no experience with D mix or the way its applied . I think really thats what you are asking . If I were to to trowel that finish I believe it would be easy.
A roller is 12 inches . I would use a 14 inch knife and pan. I would apply it the same as with my boxes skipping 10 inches to be feathered in last . If I didnt have float boxes I would have done it many times , but a float box hooked to a mud texture pump is the quickest method I know . Its as fast as you can walk, all done in one pass , which is way to fast for me these days. {G}
Tim Mooney
I have never seen a float box. This could get interesting ... I'll let you know how it turns out.
I'm sorry, I thought you wanted it done the right way.
I'll have to admit to having never seen a float box either, but they sound interesting. When I get back later this summer I may have to start looking for one to solve a problem similar to Ed's. Where did you get your's Tim?
john
Ill give you a site that shows all the tools . These are what I have;
http://www.tapetech.com [edit] theres a guy running a bazooka and a 12 inch float box on the right side ]
There are several other brands too.
Tim Mooney
Edited 6/10/2005 7:08 am ET by TIMMOONEY52
Thanks Tim. May be a bit of overkill for what I am doing but who knows. For some reason every time I find a solution for something, I seem to run into a lot more problems that need that solution. I stored the info and when I get through with this job for my daughter and get back to my world (65 miles north of Ed Hilton) I'll check it out better.
65 miles north of Ed Hilton
That would put you in Austin. Happily, you are WNW in a much nicer part of the state. But I didn't know they had internet access in Kerr county yet ... do you expect indoor plumbing soon? :)I'm sorry, I thought you wanted it done the right way.
I should have said NW. I live in Kerrville, we have semi indoor plumbing, also know as a thunder bucket. Right now I am in Peryiac-Minervois, France. Don't ask why, kids and and grandkids. Sanded Sheetrock until I thought my arms were going to fall off...what I would give for my own tools. I get to tear out a masonary wall, level a floor, install a shower, rip another shower and install a tub, but in between I get acquainted with my five month old grandaughter, learn a little french from her older sister and brother, and eat my sil's cooking. Ahhh, life in the fast lane. Then I return to the heat of K'town in mid July to finish that bedroom which has similar problems that attracted me to your post in the begining. Hope yours is solved by now.
john
Kerrvile is a nice town, and now that they have a HD (or is it Lowes?) it's a nicer town. In spite of HD's problems, at least you have a source for supplies now.
I tried Tim's receipe, and it works pretty well. I don't have a big enough bucket so I had to do a little re-mixing. Got buckets of +3 which are 4.5 gal, so I took about half and put it into an empty bucket and added 1/2 gal each of water and primer. It seemed a little thin at first, but it works well.
Rolled it on with a 1/4" nap roller. It leaves a very fine stipple. It only covers fuzzy paper and pinholes, so anything else needs to be fixed before application. I tried troweling it smooth with a 10" knife, and it works ... sort of. You have to hit it with the knife immediately after rolling, cuz it starts to set quickly, probably cuz it's so thin. Actually, it doesn't set, but when I troweled it I could only get 2-3 passes before it didn't want to be worked. maybe if I applied a thicker coat it would work better. It does look nice when troweled, and I imagine that's how D-mix looks, so I'll try that next time.
I'm sorry, I thought you wanted it done the right way.
We are lucky enough if that is the right phrase to have both...with Lowe's being a little larger. None of the others have gone out of business yet so it has been good all around. I have tried D-mix and liked it and have saved Tim's for when I get back. D-mix was a little heavy for my particular problem and Tim's may just solve it. We'll see. I'm hoping my daughter and her family move back. This is a long haul and the plane ride real is hard on my wife. I flew so much in a previous line of work that I could sleep through take offs and landings but a little bump stresses her out. I want to try D-mix again when I do a door replacement before school starts back up. Hard to make a wall look good when plugging a door opening and I think that may do the trick.
You can vary it as you want . You used Plus III and I always use regular joint compound. Plus III wont take water or paint as well as joint compound and its softer . Its easier to screen Plus III because its softer. In the end its a softer finish however.
Ive met some folks that like to actually reverse the mix I use, using 1 gallon of joint compound to 4 gallons of vinyl primer . That mix doesnt give a lot of hide in texture matt but serves as a two coat job allowing enamel for the second coat as long as the drywall job is truely slick.
The 1/4 inch roller you used would be a good idea if you wanted the finish to look smooth, but try putting it on with a 1 1/2 nap lambs wool roller the next time and using joint compound if you want it thicker and the finish more durable. You could use the 1/4 inch roller back rolling.
The reason I mention all of this is that you can add or change to meet your own needs on a job by job basis as not every job seems to be the same for many different reasons. The only way we get to be able to solve problems is trying varying solutions. Another example is that block filler doent need to be screened but has a higher product cost at a high usage. If the material cost wasnt an issue such as time and materials , then block filler would be an exellent choice. It also can be sprayed through an airless pump of 1 gallon per minute pump size or larger which even adds another option for a solution if the job had to be kept clean but the job was large , adding it had to be done quickly and material costs wasnt important.
I once was called by a chain store super and he needed an inside building primed tomorrow , PERIOD. Cost wasnt any issue that needed to be discussed . He had a deadline and his painter had bailed out only after not being nice to not give any warning. Trucks had been ordered carring stock and fixtures and had been ordered for months. They had a date advertized to open and that seemed to be written somewhere in concrete.
I rented a 2 gallon per minute airless unit and a pickup truck load of block filler from a wholesaler in Little Rock. The floor had to be protected as it already had the finish floor done by another company that kept its word on date and over ran the drywallers and painters. The whole job was done in one day after many phone calls. Ive never been called upon to perform such a task again.
We all get problems we havent seen before and some weve never heard about. Its up to us to change methods as the jobs change in needs. Anyway, a thicker roller and joint compound instead of a lite weight mud will add more hiding power and toughness. Lite weight mud and a small roller and most folks will never be able to tell its not all paint. All depends on the problem. I look forward to trying D-mix and hope its a solution to add to my arsenal for other problems.
Tim Mooney
Kerrvile is a nice town
Yep, that's where the Kinkster is from. <G> Don't know any locals anymore, so I don't know if a new "big box" is better than a gubernatorial canidate . . . Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
You got that right
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
What part does he got right?
I'm sorry, I thought you wanted it done the right way.
Both.
Ed, use Gardz by Zinsser for the paper problem. Give it 1 coat let dry, lightlysand, mud, then prime. You are set to go. Jim Z
Went to Sherwin Wms today, asked the kid for pva primer. Blank look. You know, for new sheetrock. Is it painted yet? No, it's new. Oh, here, you could try this stuff. I forget what it was, but sitting next to it on the shelf was a can marked drywall primer.
I'm sorry, I thought you wanted it done the right way.
hmm
fuzzy paper, and u have access to sherwin. Drywall conditioner. Fine over what you already primed
i think skimming is a good answer, having a hard time believing its actually flat from two coats. I'd shine a light down the wall and see for sure, but IF its really just a wealth of pinholes, ask sherwin if they have anyone in your area with a pump big enough to spray Builders Solution. Surfacer. It will cure that. Not dings and divots, but scratches and pinholes. I use it. I love it. Instant level 5 finish.
"If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you. This is the principal difference between a dog and a man." - Mark Twain
In drywall sanding when you sand you scruff up the facepaper of the drywall. Then when applying primer or paint with a sprayer, the scruffiness shows. It does not show when rolling the primer or paint.
If your going to spray paint, get a piece if rug, install it on your sanding pole leaving a 1" edge of the rug on both sides of the sanding pole head. Dip it in water, shake it a little and wipe it around the edges of the seams, corners and screws or nails. Then you spray paint no scruffiness..this is the same as sponging it but is a lot faster. Just don't wipe the wet rug over the seam. If any water drips on the seam, screw or coner just leave it and as it dries to harm done. This is the same a sponging but a lot faster.
Two coats on a seam is not enough..bad job. I suggest you add another coat. The finisher did a poor job..maybe he thought you were going to texture it.
No, he knew it would be a flat finish ...we discussed it more than once. He was in a hurry, which was unfortunate cuz I was paying by the hour (he was helping with oither things, like blowing insulation). He used a banjo box to tape the joints, then immediately went over it with an 8" knife. The nect day he used a 12" knife, and he relied heavily on sanding rather than smoothjing the mud while it was wet.
I'm sorry, I thought you wanted it done the right way.
Ed,
I use mud thinned with water and use a thick matte roller (block roller) to put it on. Then go back over with a thin (gloss roller) 15 - 30 minutes later. I am horrible at taping, but it always looks great even with a light on it.
Joe Phillips
Plastics pay the bills, Woodworking keeps me sane!
He did put on 3 coats..guess the poor job falls under "haste makes waste" or the finisher was just not that good.
I have been experimenting with D-mix and it looks promising for a multitude of problem jobs as well as new work. I left some texture on the surfaces so that it didn't require hardly any sanding. Quick and easy. Maybe it should be called "easy mix."
Larry