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It’s that time of year. I am interested in knowing what people receive/give as bonus/profit sharing. I am a PM with 10 years exp. I supervised approx. $1mil. in projects this year. Any thoughts would be appreciated.
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Don't hold your breath. It depends on who you work for. It's not something that can be projected.......it's a bonus. I give as good as I can afford. If the company or person you work for has a high level of personal living style, you might not get what you expect or you may get more. It depends. Also, it doesn't matter if you company did 10 million in business if it cost them 10.5 to do it. Be glad if you get "something". It means a lot, no matter what the amount. Merry Christmas from me to you.
Ed. Williams
*Lets heat up the forum a bit. Year end bonuses why? The purpose of being in business for the owner is to make a profit. What entitles the employess to a year end bonus based on profit? Are they underpaid for the job they do? If the company has a bad year do they give back part of the pay to make up the lack of profit at the end of the year.Ok Ok before you label me as a scrooge we give a year end party for the trades, we have a inner office party for "us" to chill out and the company has a year end, out a a nice restauraunt, dinner including spouses. Then Its usually a weeks pay to the clerical, 2 weeks pay to the superintendents and a percentage rebate of commissions to the sales reps along with 100.00 gift certificates from a major department store.
*so... what's your point rick.. ya fer it ... 'er agin it ?
*Hey Mike, No point just fish'n for a debate. Why is there an obligation to share the good times and absorb the bad times? The bad thing is if an employee gets a bonus that is disatisfactory their attitude drops, their productivity drops and they infect other good employees with the negative thinking. It's almmost blackmail.
*Rick, I think you have made a good point. We have been giving bonuses for more than ten years and our employees count on them. One guy has his spent in advance and uses it to pay down his credit cards. How is he going to feel if we cut back on it just because we had a bad year. Who's fault is that anyway? Not his. My partners and I have been discussing this over the past couple of weeks with one side pushing for a larger raise and the other side for putting that money directly into the bonus. The bonus side believes that this maintains greater flexibility in the future if things tighten up. I think we are locked into the higher bonus whether we choose to admit it or not. The bonus side won.
*I stay consistent in my bonus amounts. Directly related to current pay scales since it is an extra paycheck. The people that have been there longer get more since they make more weekly. I like the flexibility to, instead, dribble perks and paid time off through out the year. I think it gains more loyalty and creates better moral than one larger check at the end of the year only. By individualizing the perk it singles out special attention to the employee more so than an automated year end bonus check.Hey Mic, isn't a shame that if you don't come through with that bonus you would probably lose that employee.
*Wow!! Sounds like a lotta bosses out there crying sour grapes when it comes time to show their appreciation for their employees. Why not take a few minutes here to reflect upon the craftsmen who work for you, and what they contribute.1) How many of you provide the tools and truck for your employees? I'm willing to bet that most of you do not. Yet, you expect your employees to come to work everyday complete with tools and trucks that add up to a huge investment - especially for people who get paid on an hourly basis. How many other professions in a low to medium pay scale require their adherants to invest so heavily in order for their bosses to make a profit on them? Many times, the bonuses get re-invested in the tradesman's tool locker, providing even more profit potential for the employer.2) Please don't forget that while you, the boss, may make the sale, it is still the tradesman who makes good on your promises. Look at it more like a partnership.3) Yes, I know you take the risk for the losses, but it is also your right (and obligation) to cut out the dead wood. And when all is said and done, who takes home the greater portion of the profit - you or the tradesman?4) Remember who it is that is out in the heat and cold, rain and snow, sacrificing their bodies and youth while you are off in your offices or SUV's with the air-conditioners running. Believe it or not, tradesmen DON'T necessarily enjoy those sub-freezing mornings walking a roof covered in frost.5) Why not fire all of those ungrateful slobs who wish for a year-end bonus and go out and hire a bunch of replacements? You CAN find lots of replacements can't you? Ones who can fit right in with your system, who know how you want things, who will instantly be loyal to you? I'll bet the union hall has lots of them hanging around - maybe those guys you fired last year end.6) Why not just look at it as a way to simply say thanks to the people who have helped make your business successful? You wouldn't even bat an eye at leaving a 15%-20% tip when you go to a quality restaurant, why not give your guys the same consideration? I have read that some of you give a week's wages as a bonus (grudgingly). That amounts to about a 1.9% tip. Try leaving that for a tip at your favorite restaurant and see how your waiter attends to your needs.Didn't Jesus Christ (the reason for this Christmas season) have it about right when He suggested that we "Do to others as you would have them do to you."(Luke 6:31 NIV) Instead of griping about this incredible cash loss to yourselves, why not put yourself in their (workboots) and treat them as you would like to be treated.Ken
*Ken,A big "AMEN". How refreshing to read your post. Your employees are fortunate to have a boss that looks beyond numbers, and remembers each day is a gift from above.Thanks,Jim ScalesMerry Christmas
*I've never been in the position to decide how bonuses would be awarded, so the following is theoretical (although outlined in my business plan; I hope to be hiring my first person this spring):Budget for up to 1 month's pay worth of bonus (about 8%.) Whenever an employee does something really well, award a bonus on the spot. Publicly. "Jess, you did a great job on xyz, really made us look good. So and so called me to express his/her appreciation." (Or, obviously, whatever fits.) Give 'em some bucks on the spot, or a new tool s/he's mentioned, or dinner at a great place, a bump in the weekly check; something you'll know they appreciate.(Doesn't have to be a lot. The public praise and knowledge that you've noticed 'em and appreciated 'em is probably worth more than the $s, but some $s establishes it's sincere!)Try to do that for everyone (at least those you want to keep.)In aggreate per person, keep something in reserve for end of year. Pool all of the reserved bonus, and divy it up based on running totals. (X got 25% of the "spot awards, gets 25% of the left over pool; y got 15%, gets 15% of the left overs, etc.)Just a thought. (I also believe that'll make it easier for the folks to listen to constructive criticism over the year, too.)
*How about we pay our men below minimum wage then give 10%. If you are going to compare construction to wait staff, then this would be fair. I would rather pay our men a good wage throughout the year with minimal bonus at the end. It is too easy to be thought of as "expected" and spent b/4 it is given. You are right about owners earning more. Owners regularly work 60-80 hours/wk, have thier home on the line (personal garantees to the bank), get calls from irate homeowners, subs, neighbors and the general public. Then there is the whole risk/reward thing. No risk, no reward. Low risk, low reward. Etc. Don't want to risk anything? Become an employee. Work hard. Go home at the end of the day and enjoy your family. Earn a good paycheck. Want to risk your home, lifestyle and good reputation? Go out on your own and prove yourself. You would probably think that I don't pay any bonus. You would be wrong. We have pool that is reduced by preventable accidents. At the end of the year it is split up. FWIW.
*From Proof Management Consultants: (Condensed for posting) Whatever one does, make sure the bonus is 1, a benefit or 2, a gift. If given at Christmas time it has been proven that most employees believe this is a gift and not a benefit.No matter what one does for their employee, make sure it is noted on their paycheck. In summary, make sure employees understand that benefits are money out-of-pocket and that the availability of this money is a direct result of good workmanship and high rates of production.The class I attended back in 1985 (Orlando FL), was given by Linda Case "How to find, train, motivate and retain employees". Jim ScalesMost important - let your employees know they are appreciated even if it is a Thank you!
*I missed the part where the crews are underpaid and dependant on tips or bonuses. I just paid a carpenter $13,000.00 for six days work. lets see, one guy with years of experience and 4 guys that were new to his opperation this summer. I think he'll be sending me a "christmas bonus" this year. Even after paying this crew and others the boss made a profit oh no not that. What was the risk to the carpenter. He would be paid wether or not the job was profitable and he can add in any unforeseen expenses. He had no expense in finding the job called advertising.
*Both sides of this coin must be understood, and by both sides. That's why I've always advocated that each employee should be taught at least the basics of the business of running a business, costs, loses, problems, et all, and how what each of us (owners too) does, effects the bottom line.Bonuses cannot be paid unless (1) they are budgeted for, and (2) the money is there. The money will not and cannot be there even if budgeted unless again, each and every employee knows they are part of a "team". As such, they must, again, be taught that (1) they have responsibilities to each other team member, and (2) exactly what those responsibilities are and entail.The person who only wants to work his/her 8-5 day and no other responsibilites, "benefits" from a bonus only if he/she accepts, and acts accordingly as one of the above team members during his/her 8 hour day. The person who wants to put in extra time, is available for emergencies, etc., and does as the other above, is probably entitled to a larger bonus "benefit" due to his or her going beyond what is expected. The "what is expected" being the accepting and acting as a team member.Anyone who does not fit the above "bill" is in my opinion, not entitled to share in the same benefits as those above, unless of course, you want to thoroughly demoralize true team members."This is what I get for busting my rear end, and Joe, who could care less and only does enough to keep on the payroll, gets just a little less? That's it for me"Those are the guys I used to hire from my competitors. Not Joe - the alienated guy.Employees must be taught that thru their individual efforts and as part of team efforts is how margins increase, and for some companies, substantially. As part of the efforts that make those substantial margins possible, the respective "team" members enjoy their fruits along with the owner.Sure, the owner has 100% of the liability, responsibility, license and financial future on his shoulders. But the "opportunity" to reap the harvest of what he is placing on the line is not possible unless those on the line do their part. While each (owner and staff) may carry a hugely different share of responsibility of the business, no one is less important than another. Each are equally needed - sales, marketing, production, office and management. Partners they are - unequal - but still partners, and as such, should benefit from their "contributions" accordingly, which also means - or not - such as non-contributors except for an 8 hour day. That's what paychecks are for. Personally, I never wanted to employ anyone who didn't "earn" an Xmas bonus.
*Sonny,Good seeing you jump in. I must say a smart one this time of year. My sister retired in Ft. Myers, and will not visit Indiana until spring. Post well put - thanks,Have a wonderful Christmas with your family.Jim
*Thanks Jim. I hope to hear from you when you come down to see your sister here in "chad" and "dimple" country.
*I'm gonna throw my two cents in on this one. With all the cheap ass labor found in my neck of the woods, I don't care at all about a bonus. Just let me earn an honest days wage for an honests day's work and Frank will remain happy.
*Frank, just goes to show - we should always keep things in perspective.
*We gave some big bonus's for Christmas this year. (every year). Coming up through the ranks, I got one $100 bonus in about 15 years of working by the hour for the other guy. That one bonus floored me and that employer helped to teach me the importance of giving regardless of the amount. It was the token of his appreciation that impressed me. And at the time, the hundred bucks helped more than he will ever know.In this business if someone gives you even a "Merry Christmas", you should appreciate it. If an employer gives you money out of his pocket as a bonus for you for Christmas.......it's no small thing and you should understand that he didn't have to. It seems that some people just expect it. Well........maybe at some big time law firm or something, but it's not the norm in the carpentry business.Ed. Williams
*Ed, my Dad died when I was 10. One of my older sisters or brothers told me that one of my Dad's philosophies was that once a man gives his word, he must honor it, even if he realizes a few minutes later he made a mistake an agreeing to what he said.That especially applied to accepting a job at "X" amount of money, either by the hour or a lump sum, and to not expect more than "the agreement" of employment. Once one's word has been given, he should always give his best because accepting a job "agreement" is the same as giving one's word - it's a verbal contract.My Dad was far from a saint, but your comments make me believe that you and my Dad both acknowledge two of the higher orders by which mankind should live: honoring one's word - regardless, and appreciation of being given an opportunity to earn a living. I salute you!
*Sonny,Thanks for your kind words. I hope you're winning the battle with the nicotine.It seems that real values in this world are going by the way-side. People don't show up when they say they will, won't return phone calls or pages; send a fax and don't follow it up with real paper. It's a shame. Good manners are lost. Rude parents raise rude children and it just grows and grows.There are some good people out there who still understand that thier word is thier bond, but damn few.Glad to be in good company,Ed.
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It's that time of year. I am interested in knowing what people receive/give as bonus/profit sharing. I am a PM with 10 years exp. I supervised approx. $1mil. in projects this year. Any thoughts would be appreciated.