Replies

1. 
   joeh | May 05, 2003 10:44pm | #1

   Woodrow, look up screen and left. Second on the left, next to "Home" is a button sez "Books & Videos" -- be pusing that button. Somewhere there is a book about laminate countertops.

   What it's called I don't know, and it seems the Prospero Search engine does not know either.

   Has abyone tried to find a book over there? It sucks just like search here usually does.

   Anyway, there's a pretty thorough explanation of how to do it. If you've never done it (just guessing) I think you should consider buying that book. If you can find it.

   Joe H

1. 
   SunnySlopes | May 06, 2003 12:09am | #2

   Thanks for your reply and I will check out the book. 

   I have installed laminates, but on a very limited bases and I did not learn from a pro.  I do know I am not doing it correctly because my tops do not come out smooth and flat.  Must be using too much glue.  I just need some key points that will result in a decent job.

   I am wondering if I can squeegee on the glue instead of using a roller,  seems I can not get a smooth application of the glue.  I do have a laminate router and my edges do come out ok.  I am just not sure if I am using the correct substrate,  MDF?, Particle board?, etc...  and whether or not I should double it up or just double up around the edges and anywhere else the counter top is supported.  That will give it the appearence that the entire counter is 1 1/2" thick throughout.

   Just wondering what the standard is. 

                    Thanks "One measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions"

1. 
   steve | May 06, 2003 01:10am | #4

   i laminate lots of countertops and have for several years

   i always use 11/16 particle board, get a good grade without large chips of wood in it

   i always use lepages latex contact cement, two coats on the substrate and one on the laminate, thin coats are best

   i apply the glue with a paint roller

   i always use postform grade laminate, but if you use general grade which is thicker you will have less problems with telegraphing

   any other questions i'll be glad to answer for you

   an example of a countertop i did is in the gallery section some where called akitchen i just completed

   Edited 5/5/2003 6:13:04 PM ET by steve

1. 
   bill_1010 | May 06, 2003 01:30am | #5

   Also be sure to get a nice heavy J-Roller and when you contact the laminate to the substrate work from the Center out pressing down nice and hard to work out airbubbles. This also makes for a good bond.

   The two coats on the substrate is handy advice.  THe first few laminate jobs i i had to go back and work over.   Particle board soaks up that contact cement and i didnt get great adhesion. 

   Also keep your router bits clean and free of glue, i cant stress that enough.  That bearing has to be smooth. 

2. 
   GUNN308 | May 06, 2003 01:03am | #3

   Build your counter top from 3/4" counter top particle board not underlayment there is a difference countertop material is more dense and therefore flatter, you will have to special order form your lumber yard or maybe you can go directly to a distributor GP I know makes this it comes 12' long by 30" so you can cut backsplash from same piece. I build up front and sides with 2" strips glued and screwed with particle board screws ask for them they have coarse deep threads predrill your strips with a clearance hole and screws won't strip. Keeping screws in front of sink area away from cut out saves on blades. I haven't had a problem with rolling on contact cement, but 3M 90 (I think it's 90 it's for permanent bond) spray is easier and worth the extra money roll laminate with lots of pressure especially on edges, your rough surface sounds like your roller covers are shedding.

3. 
   brianspages | May 06, 2003 06:22am | #6

   3/4" high density particle board.

   since you are a relative newbie, consider making your sink cut out now and make sure that you have positioned it correctly before proceeding.

   you will see why the others are recommending multiple coats of adhesive.

   apply build-up at edges.

   create strips for edging (various methods).

   i personally brush on contact cement.  the 3M spray worked great facing plywood with hardboard on one project, but edges had a tendency to lift when i attempted to laminate a pre-preprimed door ( may have had something to do with the primer but more likely the practical difficulty in hitting the edge with the spray and believe me, i paid attention to the edge treatment and one edge gave me trouble).

   for the top, lay 4 or 5 dowels on the substrate, then position the laminate on the dowels.  whereever you start from (i start on on end and not the middle), pull a dowel a secure that section with pressure from a J-roller.  then pull the next dowel...

   you seem confident about edging.  many prefer to install edging before the top to create a protective lip over the substrate/edging bond.  apply tape over the top where the trimmer bearing will ride while trimming the edging.

   trim out laminate at sink hole.

   contact cement cleans up with lacquer thinner.

   all the previous advice others gave holds true.  just thought i'd supplement it best that i could.

   brian

1. 
   Rarebreed | May 06, 2003 09:42am | #7

   Everyone's advice sounds pretty good, the only thing I can add is this. I keep several slats from an old venetion(sp?) blind that I lay on my substrate before applying the laminate. Then starting in the center and working out in both directions we pull a slat and use the J-roller to work toward each end.TCW Specialists in Custom Remodeling.

1. 
   DaveRicheson | May 06, 2003 03:45pm | #8

   Blind slats huh? Sounds laike they take up less room tham my stack of 1/2 dowel rods.

1. 
   SunnySlopes | May 06, 2003 05:53pm | #9

   Thanks for all the input.  I greatly appreciate all the advise and information.

   I have never built counters for customers, I always sub it out to a shop, but I will be making counters for my basement shop this weekend.

                                                             Thanks again. "One measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions"

1. 
   steve | May 07, 2003 01:25am | #11

   seriously if you need more advice, contact me a [email protected], i have made hudreds of contertops, many way over the 5x12 size of laminate, they are not difficult, but do require some care at certain points

   typical problems for a newbie?

   joining sheets of particle board without showing through the laminate

   joints in the laminate itself

   like i said, its not difficult, just requires some techniques but not any beyond a competant carpenter

2. 
   SunnySlopes | May 19, 2003 03:22am | #12

   Great advise  and would like to express my appreciation for you all taking the time to post. 

     I played around with a practice top and learned much from my mistakes.  I want to bend the laminate around a 1.75" radius.  I found that sanding the back side to and heating it up with a hairdryer did the trick for me, but is that the proper way of doing it?

   I installed the sides first and then the top.  When I  trimmed  the top the with a flush cutting bottom bearing router bit, the bit also cut some of the side as well.  Was the bit adjusted too low? Should it only be adjusted lower enough to cut the top?  Also,  can I use a 7° bevel to trim it or first cut the bulk with the flush bit then clean up with the bevel bit? 

   Also I had to place a seam on the side of the top.  How do you get a nice tight seam that can barely be seen?  I am using white, so I know that is probably the hardest seam to hide.

   Thanks to all who respond.

                          Woodrow"One measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions"

3. 
   Bloodad | May 19, 2003 03:19pm | #13

   Hey Woodrow.....It seems that there are as many methods as there are fabricators.

   I always use 18mm Virola Plywood as a substrate.  It's smooth and light weight to handle.  Use a 2" wide buildup on the edges. (be sure that all cuts are good square edges.) When cutting radius corners, use a template and a top bearing pattern bit. (use jigsaw to rough cut radius) Then use top cut to rout buildup to insure a good square cut on radius.  This method helps to keep the trim-bit from digging into the edgebanding.

   Spraying glue is the best method of glue application.  You don't need a fancy set up.  A regular paint cup will work fine.  Play with the adjustments until you get the texture of spray that you want and go to it.  Add and extra amount of glue at the edges as that is where the problems are.

   I usually build my tops up-side down on the floor and then transfer them to saw horses or trash cans and apply edgeing first and route and sand (using a beltsander w/60 grit) the edgeing flush then flip the top and do the same to the top surface.  When this is done, clear all dust and debri from the top surface and lay the laminate on the top to insure that it fits.  Flip the laminate over and spray glue on evenly as possible and set aside to dry.  Spray the top and let it dry.  Apply the laminate any way that is comfortable for you.

   I think that if you take all of the advice given to you and work out a plan for the job that everything will work out just fine.

   Good luck

   ford

4. 
   steve | May 19, 2003 04:09pm | #14

   bending laminate around the edges is not difficult, first of all i use postform grade laminate which is thinner than regular grade and bend the strips around corners using a heat gun. its a little tricky at first but just experiment

   i always do the edges first, trim witha straight cutter, beltsand smooth and then apply the top laminate.

   seams can be done 2 ways depending on the circumstances.  If the finished top can be transported safely to the site, then i use a straight edge and a laminate trimmer to straighten the butting edges before glueing up.  With this techique, you have to be careful to keep glue of the edge

   if the top is too big to be transported, i fabricate in two sections(or more)leaving the joint area over length.  After fabrication the sections can be trimmed using a circularsaw(top upside down), leaving an extra 1/8 inch for final trimming with a router and a straight edge

   the sections can then be joied together on site using same techniques as a regular postform top(glue and draw bolts)

2. 
   Jeff | May 06, 2003 09:52pm | #10

   Yeah

   But try and find some.

   Jeff

4. 
   rasconc | May 23, 2003 03:24am | #15

   I used one of the black foam rollers with good results.  I do not think that the regular rollers would not be as smooth and could shed.

1. 
   steve | May 23, 2003 05:15am | #16

   ive tried foa, rollers as well but with the latex contact cement i find it creates a lots of bubbles in the glue.

   i just use a very short nap latexpaint roller

1. 
   rasconc | May 23, 2003 06:39am | #18

   I can not remember which adhesive I used but it did not make any bubbles.  It seems like it was the water based Formica brand. The roller was very smooth with no pockets, I was not sure it would hold any glue.  All I was doing was smoothing it out after pouring it on the surface.  I rolled very slowly.  I know that I would not spray unless I was in pretty big production.  I hate clean up.

   After you gave me the help on cutting the countertop the other day I came up with an idea for a shoot board that might be good if cutting them frequently.  I would make it from a scrap of 3/4 ply with a short leg for the backsplash, put some lattice for a guide and then cut it with the saw you plan to use all the time for the task.  I would make it wide enough to clamp in the front and top of back splash.  I believe that would make it comfortable to cut the splash with the circular saw in one move.

   Did not mean to hijack thread, still on topic.

1. 
   SunnySlopes | May 23, 2003 01:08pm | #19

   Thanks again and great info as always.  

   Just want to pass on a little trick I came up with on my own.  I am sure others thought of this also.

   I installed the counter top and looks great.  The back wall was straight and flat, no need to scribe to wall; however the wall to the left was a different story. (Very wavy) Instead of scribing I ripped a strip of pine the thickness of the deepest wave of the wall, about 3/16th".   I attached that to the left side of the counter top before I laminated it.  After the top was finished, I removed the pine strip and was left with a 3/16th" over hang of laminate on the left side.  I then placed the top in position against the wall and traced  a line right were the over hanging laminate touched the wall.  Removed top and cut from the traced line down into the dry wall  at least the thickness of the laminate and the depth of the over hang.  Re-installed top and pushed top into left side of wall with over hanging laminate sliding into cut slit in wall.   Viola!  a perfect fit.

                                                  Regards

   "One measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions"

   Edited 5/23/2003 6:10:39 AM ET by Woodrow

5. 
   Graybeard | May 23, 2003 05:55am | #17

    Spraying the adhesive is the quickest way but the clean-up will cost you a couple of gallons of lacquer thinner. When I have to do a quick end cap repair in the field, I brush on the thinned out adhesive used for the sprayer. Check the can for info on thinning and either brush or roll on the thinned out adhesive, 2 coats recommended, will offer a smooth finished product. Use 3/4" particle board, not OSB, fir plywood works but can warp, the particle board is stable when kept dry. Add a 3/4" strip of particle board or SPF (spruce, pine, fir) for the front lip and end caps. Install the laminate on the front lip and ends first, router them smooth, then install the top surface. If your countertop is being used in a kitchen or bathroom, use a latex caulk that resists mold and bacteria, simple clean-up and long lasting.