Building practices for windows & trim
We are buying a home that was already under construction by a local builder here in Atlanta. It is framed up with a roof, pipes & wires, but no insulation or interior walls yet. The windows & some of the hardi plank siding, and wood trim have just been installed in last couple of weeks. We are not savvy about home construction standards for higher price homes (over 600K), but my brother visiting said that the windows were installed without any stick & peel window tape for water proofing around the openings was not up to code in his state. Also, he said that their use of cheap grade pine for all trim & fascia boards, without even priming it, or rather than use synthetic lumber was poor practice for this level of home–and could probably rot within 5 years. Any suggestions, information any one has about what should be done will be appreciated.
Replies
The window install is wrong. Doesn't matter whether it's a ranch house or Shaq's waterfront mansion. Only *however* I'd put in is that the possibility exists, if they haven't reached the windows yet with the siding, that they do it when they have a staging up to window level. Easier to put up at that point, IMO.
The trim is a more difficult one to answer, but it comes down to this. I wouldn't put bare pine on anything these days. Having said that, if you've agreed on a price as specced w/ the trim that's there, or in writing, then you would need to decide if you're willing to pay an upcharge on the trim for a better product. I would argue the 5 year point, as if it's primed well, and a good quality paint is used, it should last a lot longer than that, but back priming is a big benefit in terms of longevity and stability, so....... Flashing details probably play an equally important role iin the whole thing, as well.
I'd be careful as to how you approach this with your builder, as everyone here knows, veryone has a critical relative when your building a house, and while your brother makes perfect sense, don't be surprised if the contractor goes on the defensive initially.
Hope this helps
Bing
Thanks for your input. The siding is already up around the windows on 3 sides of this 2 story home with a (to be) finished basement. The bare pine exterior trim, and windows were only recently installed after we were under contract. We have sent the builder a list of these concerns (along w/a couple of articles on the topics from Finehomebuilding) and will meet with him soon. Being such dummies about all this, we will probably get a home inspection done soon, as there wasnt time allowed for this when going into contract.
Pay a knowledgable contractor for a few hours of his/her time to walk around the site with you and take a look at what has been done so far and than recommend any changes necessary. He/she should also look at the specifications for interior finishes, fixtures, etc. You may be stuck paying more $$ for better quality (depending on what is in the contract you signed), but it's a lot easier and less expensive to deal with cheap #### (if that is what is being installed) before it's installed than after. The person who looks at it may be able to reassure you that everything is OK.
As to the windows, he/she should be able to tell you if the installation meets accepted practice and/or code.
For 600K, if I didn't know anythinh about construction, I'd hire someone to interact with the GC. There are plenty of out-of-work contractors who could help you out. It could be the best 5K you ever spend.
For future reference, there is always time to have an inspection done before you sign. This obviously wasn't an emergency house purchase. If a seller won't give you time for an inspection, just buy another house.
Good luck.
Do you have a link to the thread on "your house"..
William the Geezer, the sequel to Billy the Kid - Shoe
I'm on my phone now and can't search. The title of it was. Gunners new crib (maybe)
I'm bringing sexy back.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8yIqwyR1ays
Found it.The UNadvanced search engine does not look at thread titles.But you use the word crib in message in the middle of the thread. So I found it..
William the Geezer, the sequel to Billy the Kid - Shoe
I did one whole thread on tyvek too that dealt with flashing
And such.
I'm bringing sexy back.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8yIqwyR1ays
I did not remember that it was 2 different threads,Here is the Tyvek one.http://forums.taunton.com/tp-breaktime/messages?msg=93644.1
.
William the Geezer, the sequel to Billy the Kid - Shoe
I cant go through the 600 posts from the tyvek one but did we ever come to a conclusion? Ive been using this method from grace http://link.brightcove.com/services/player/bcpid824577978
It makes sense to me and as far as I know is acceptable. I've decided that I dont like folding the paper into the opening then I found this video and thought I was on the right track.
Is there a consensus around here. I posted a question like this once before but I think it got lost (HeLL I couldnt even find it)
--Dan
Man there's never a consensus around here.
I'm bringing sexy back.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8yIqwyR1ays
It really is not that hard. I've taken to cutting away the tyvek because I would rather have the vicor stick to the wood than sticking to the tyvek which is stuck to nothing. Also makes faming the window a little easier.But really, its simple. Water flows downhill. Assume the window will leak, and line the hole accordingly with self-adhesive flashing tape, appropriately shingle-lapped, and slope the sub sill outward. House wrap goes over the top of the top flange or drip cap.Be the rain drop.namaste
Yep Thats why I quit folding the housewrap into the opening and cut the sides back a few inches so you can stick it right on the sheething and also onto the housewrap.
Its just that the details vary so much from one guy to the next that I was wondering If anyone had ever had to take one out that wasnt done too long ago and what observations about water intrusion they made
it looks like a good product
Yes, good points. I think we will have consult w/ home inspector at this stage.
Thank you for your wise inputs.
We will be making use of a good inspector and also find another contractor to assist us in providing added perspective and feedback.
You might want to look at this thread.
http://forums.taunton.com/n/mb/message.asp?webtag=tp-breaktime&msg=91104.1&maxT=17
I quickly scanned throuh it looking for pictures.
Looks like the good (bad) part starts around here.
http://forums.taunton.com/n/mb/message.asp?webtag=tp-breaktime&msg=91104.281
William the Geezer, the sequel to Billy the Kid - Shoe
I'm glad you brought this up Bill I've been going through that thread reminiscing. Fun stuff.
I'm bringing sexy back.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8yIqwyR1ays
Rainatl
Your window sills should look like this before the window gets installed.
This is in a redo where the windows leaked.
http://forums.taunton.com/tp-breaktime/messages?msg=112965.29
View Image
View Image
And like this when they are wrapped. Bottom flange over the flex wrap. House wrap over the top flange.
Rich
Thanks so much!--very helpful.
Rainatl
I don't want to stir up a hornet's nest, but I would be very wary of this house.
Pine with no back priming is going to last about 5 years. Pine with back priming just slightly longer. Even with back priming every time you make a cut, the open the end grain it should be primed. Hard to do when you are trying to bring the house in under budget and you don't care enough to wrap the windows.
My thread on the leaking Marvins shows what kind of damage can be done by improper flashing. These Marvins started leaking early in the life of the house, and the 1st repair was done in year 8 and we did extensive work in year 13.
If there is a deck then pay attention to the deck flashing details. Check out this thread.
http://forums.taunton.com/tp-breaktime/messages?msg=113816.1
It doesn't sound like this builder knows the current best practices. Sorry.
Visit Tyveks site for proper window flashing, start on page 4.
http://www2.dupont.com/Tyvek_Weatherization/en_US/assets/downloads/05IntFlangeWindowBEFORE.pdf
Rich
Edited 1/8/2009 9:19 am ET by cargin
Rich--Thanks so much for all your info. Now I am stressed, I think the site manager needs to get off the job. No telling what else has been half baked.
Rainatl
Sorry.
But better to know now. It gets real ugly later.
Rich