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I’m looking for CAD software for home design and construction – one that will detail wall framing. I’ve downloaded the demo from SoftPlan and it looks promising. But at $2800US (I’m from Canada) I would like to find something a little more economical ($1000?). Any advice would be appreciated.
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Kevin,
I like it MiniCAD. At 700 bucks it's a good value, I think. MiniCAD 7 has a wall framing function. I don't know how well it works, as I haven't upgraded from version 6. They just radically reworked MiniCAD and re-named it VectorWorks. They also created a rendering package called RenderWorks that they are bundling with it for a substantial discount. The literiture looks good on it, but as I say, MiniCAD 6 was the last version of it I bought.
Chief Architect is another similarly priced/featured program, but I have no experience with it. They have a demo available for download, I believe.
Have Fun,
Steve
*Check out TurboCAD. It's a good, solid CAD program at a reasonable price. The full version will also do 3D. They're offering a free (that's FREE, with no limits on use) downloadable 2D version that doesn't have some of the more exotic drawing tools but may be entirely adequate for your use. If you like it, you can use it forever or take advantage of their upgrade offer to the full 3D version.
*Kevin, If you want a cadd program that's got a lot to offer you can go for AutoCad Lt. It goes for about $600, Canadian and can draw anything, it just takes some time to get a handle on the all the commands.Just curious, what part of Canada, I live in Calgary, Ab. Good Luck eh!, Sean
*
Also check out Builders Cad at builderscad.com
*I use SoftPlan and like it. I don't have much experience with much else but have heard good things about Mini CAD. The only thing I don't like about SP is that its not compatible with AutoCAD.
*DATACAD is a sure bet. It does a great deal out of the box that others will not (especially AutoCad). It's under $500 bucks and is a full blown CAD program that does take-offs, framing layouts, stairs, etc. I'd check out the following web site: http://world.std.com/~eshu/cheap.htmIt's a user support group site; see if there is a report about the CAD shoot-out in Boston. It gives a good narrative on how ALL the CAD programs ranked in a head to head competition.I've used DataCAD for six years on a daily basis- it was easy to learn, and is easy to customize to your needs!Good Luck.
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I've had Softplan for about 3 years. I've never liked it. For the money I wish it could draw a roof which spans two floors with dormers without fighting with the thing for 2 hours. You should be able to edit a standard beam size or footer width instead of only having one choice. The manual, if written correctly, would describe a function, and give a quick example. Instead, every simple step is a "lesson" described by too many pages of text. I've had $300 programs which were much more user friendly.
*I have been a TurboCad user for years now, and can't fault their product or prices. I will continue to use TurboCad for drafting and other things. I am, however, evaluating ArchiTECH.PC and it's companion modeler Soft CAD.3D, and am very impressed. Trial versions are available on CD rom. Worth a try. http://WWW.SOFTCAD.COM
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Sean,
I'm from Saskatoon. I'm looking at setting up a shop offering factory framing of custom homes. Basically, instead of framing walls on-site, they're framed in the shop and assembled on-site. I'm in the investigative stages right now so if you have any insights from similar businesses in the Calgary area I'd love your input.
You recommend AutoCAD Lt, is there a specific interface available for architecture (ie for roof design, exterior finishes, interior lighting/shading,etc)?
Kevin
*Our land development and design office switched from AutoCAD 12 to AutoCAD LT about a year ago. The programme is very reasonably priced and it is able to do almost everything we require. Prior to purchasing the programme we were nervous about the speed of the LT programme. The files we manipulate are often in the range of 5 meg even with XREFs. Our nervousness was completely unfounded. The programme zips right along.The 3D modelling capabilities are limited and we haven't figured out how to plot images imported into ACAD LT from Pagemaker but otherwise the programme does eveything we want - for a fraction of the price of ACAD14. Highly recommended.
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Kevin, check out their website. They have many packages and things available. Since you are looking for a production oriented package I think AutoCAD products would work well for you. They handle layers very nicely and work with Word and Excel to generate specs, text, and B.O.M. Have you considered CNC cutting of the framing? AutoCAD can generate code to do this as well. I think 2-D is all you would need for the wall layouts, though if you are doing design the 3-d with rendering wouldn't hurt. You can also write programs within AutoCAD to automatically generate drawings once your floorplan is known. Additionally, nearly every company I have seen ahs pre-drawn details in *.DWG format (AutoCAD) which speeds up the detailing and planning processes.
-Rob
*I'm a AutoCad LT user and love it. The LT98 version is fantastic. But the single largest improvement in productivity (speed!) was the MS Intellimouse support in LT97. It only took me about 2 days to realize I'd never use a cad program without it again. Consider this when evaluating other CAD programs.
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Kevin: If you're looking for a program that has framing/materials capabilities, you should really try a program that is specifically designed from the ground up for this, not just added on as an option or afterthought. I have used SolidBuilder for years and am very happy with its abilities to "build" a house exactly as it is done in the field, as well as it's capability for estimating, working drawings, 3D views, etc. The Canadian distributor for SolidBuilder belongs to the online users group that I'm in, he is quite knowledgable and could help you get started in the right direction.
Dirk Dinsmore
*I'LL THROW IN ANOTHER VOTE FOR AutoCAD LT. I HAVE TO ADMIT THOUGH, I'VE BEEN USING AutoCAD (11, 12 & 14) FOR YEARS & USING THE LT SOFTWARE WAS VERY EASY. THE LEARNING CURVE MAY BE A LITTLE HIGH BUT YOU SHOULD GET GOOD RESULTS WITH A LITTLE PRACTICE. WHATEVER YOU BUY IF YOU HAVE A FRIEND WHO KNOWS THAT SOFTWARE, THEIR INPUT CAN BE VERY VALUABLE. OFTEN A SHORT PHONE CALL WILL SAVE LOTS OF TIME HUNTING THROUGH USER MANUALS THAT CAN BE VERY USER "UNFRIENDLY". GOOD LUCK
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Any address or web site for SolidBuilder? Is it another electronic draftsman or are there framing shortcuts/macros, and variable roof layouts?
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Richard,
To print bit mapped imaged in AutoCad LT properly, rotate your paper in your print setup, do not rotate the image in your AutoCad Lt print dialog box.
David
*I too have used softplan for several years and have tired of having my creativity guided by the limitations of this program, especialy the roofs. I am searching for another arch. based program preferrably under $1000.
*Patrick: Eaglepoint (www.eaglepoint.com) is the owner of SolidBuilder (they bought out the original developer several years ago). I believe they have a downloadable demo available. The program is truly 3D, you actually build the model just like you would in the field with "solid" components. Footings, walls, floors, ceilings, posts, beams and roofs are the basic building blocks, called "shells" that you manipulate geometrically into place, set up your layout points and then automatically place all the framing members based on the information contained in each shell. The individual framing members can then be edited if need be. I haven't found a roof or wall yet that can't be build AND framed, the program also details out birds mouths on rafters, cheek cuts on hip rafters, etc. There is definitely a learning curve in getting to know the program but it is well worth going through.Dirk Dinsmore
*...just a note about Softplan... the Canadian price is the same as the US price, strangely enough. I'm not absolutely sure why, but I think it's a Canadian company or something so they are giving Canadians a break on the price. I'm surprised at the negative comments about Softplan, after many years of keeping my ear to the ground and trying out a few different design programs, I came to the conclusion that Softplan was better than anything else for the price. Of course, since I've just started using it, I haven't come up against the limitations more experienced users have found, but Softplan seems like a company committed to putting out a good product, so if there are problems I'm sure they'll be more than happy to adress them in the next version... they seem to update very regularly. I found Autocad and like programs far too hard for my meager brain matter to master, looked over my architectural technologist's shoulder while he drew a house by Autocad, and it seemed to take far too long.
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Dirk,
If you have Solidbuilder Program please join topic on framing a twelve sided roof in the construction techniques folder.
Thanks,
jack : )
Also if any one wants to sell me their Solidbuilder software cheap, email me as I'm in the market for it.
*Gentlemen. We recently bought Minicad7 and are impressed. We just received the latest version and are more impressed.GeneL
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I think the answer to your question Kevin is .....it depends. For ease of use, I've heard good things about Chief Architect and Softplan. The trouble is, the automated features that make these programs easy to use also ultimately serve to limit them. It's the program's way or not at all. I've talked to designers that have run into these limitations. You may never encounter them depending on what you do. And then there's Autocad. I haven't used LT but have used Release 12 and 14 and can tell you the learning curve for them is very, very steep. I'm taking 3D Autocad now, and it is tough. The basic Autocad manual I have is over 1000 pages ( the advanced manual is over 500). The things that make Autocad so capable (the ablity to set so many system variables among others) are also the things that make it hard to learn.Good Luck!
*minicad (now vector works) is the only way to go. It is three times a powerfull as autocad light and 10 times easier to use. When you(a novice) begin to use auto cad (any version), it will take you more than 20 minutes and several calls to their help desk to figure out how to change something as basic as the font size. It gets even worse trying to figure out line widths. It will take you about 4 seconds to figure out font sizes in minicad (you can import almost any autocad file into minicad). Auto cad was developed in the days of individual typed commands and pen plotters, they are trying to upgrade to pull down menus, but the menus are just overlays for typed commands.
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figuers - My experiences are much different than your's re: Autocad. I just started using it and haven't cracked a manual after the first day in late December of 1982. I've called AutoCad once in the last 9 years (wanted to install an upgrade on a new computer without installing the original which was on the old computer). True, it doesn't come with a lot of built in routines for automating repetitive tasks - but I've never felt limited. I can't imagine a more flexible or intuitive interface than the floating, easily customizable, menu bars. More importantly, working for architects, I can't not work in AutoCad - it has around 75% of that market (actually 79% last time I saw it in print).
Monday, I start work in an office that uses Minicad - but is switching to Autocad in the next few months. Minicad apparently doesn't deal with x-references or paper space/model space - a necsssity and wonderful feature in my opinion.
So, to each his own.
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minicad (now vector works) is the only way to go. It is three times a powerfull as autocad light and 10 times easier to use. When you (a novice) begin to use auto cad (any version), it will take you more than 20 minutes and several calls to their help desk to figure out how to change something as basic as the font size. It gets even worse trying to figure out line widths. It will take you about 4 seconds to figure out the same features in minicad (you can import almost any autocad file into minicad). Auto cad was developed in the days of individual typed commands and pen plotters, they are trying to upgrade to pull down menus, but the menus are just overlays for typed commands. The overall structure/concept of the program has not changed in 15 years. Autocad light was developed in response to minicad and other codes. Autocad (full version) was too expensive/difficult to use and they were losing market share.
*It is true that minicad 7.0 does not handle paper space/model space very well, but the new version of minicad (called vector works) is light years beyond autocad light (have you tried vectorworks?) The original question was about drafting codes for an individual user (not a company where there are expert users or those who have 10 plus years of experience). For an individual, who uses the program occasionally, I believe minicad/ vectorworks is the best way to go. There will be less hassles,and you will be able to do things that you would have to spend $3,000 US plus to get from other codes. Look at the teaching market for AutoCad. You have to take two or more community college courses from a person to learn auto cad and the manuals are 1000 plus pages thick (costing $100 to $200). There are tutorials, but they consist of a dozen video tapes at $50 per tape. The minicad courses are do it yourself tutorials at $54. There are many things that autocad cannot do (or you have to spend $8,000 plus for add-ons). That is why codes such as Microstation and ArcInfo are used by large firms. Autocad has a large market share because it was first, not because it is best or easy or cheap. Look at Microsoft v. Mac. Almost everyone I know acknowledges that the Mac OS is much easier to use, but PC's dominate the market. For example, there is no Y2K problem with any MAC, the underlying computer coding was originally set up for a 4 digit year.
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To change font size in AutoCad click on the text, click on the properties icon, and change the darn size.
I can't confirm or deny anything you say about other products but what your saying about Autocad just is not true in my experience. As far as not changing - it's changed incredbly - I've been using it through 13 major revisions and several minor ones and it very different structure. With the incorporation of the Intellimouse into Autocad, its simply amazing how fast you can navigate a drawing. And at $395 for Autocad LT98, price is not an issue.
*Asking anyone,I always liked the "Burt Rutan uses it" CAD that I think is called Vellum?Any opinions on it's ease of use features that it upfront advertises?I know its not a architectual CAD per say, right?Just Scratchin,Jack : )
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Gene- I am a long time user of Auto cad and have used various spin-offs, but found them to all be unfriendly to the designer/builder. I have read the mini-cad7 adds (since it was v.5) and am interested in its capabilities for practical uses, such as specing a floorplan in different types of materials.
As of yet, I have not found a reasonable program to handle this, or 1/2 stories (attic living areas) with any gret success. I am interested to hear a users expanded opinions. Thanks for any info you may be able to provide. - Eric (in the FRIGID north)
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Eric. I will have my son get in touch with you as he is the ëxpert"with Minicad7. He was inmjures some time ago and had little to do othe than keeping opff hism feet. He's a computer freak and spent hundreds of hours with Minicad 7.
*Datacad is my program of choice. I've also used Autocad and Generic CAD extensively, but they are less architectural. I've been using Datacad for ten years and find it much easier to use and more powerful and responsive than Autocad. It is also less expensive, any add-ons or third-party are also inexpensive, and it has a gread email user group (DBUG) that I supscrbe to.If you are just doing houses, it may be more powerful and complex than what you need. Most people don't use its 3d and rendering capability, but those are highly rated. Datacad is the 2nd most popular CAD program for AIA architects. It also won a product design award recently. The expensive and cumbersome but standard Autocad being the most popular. I also have Autocad LT and have used Autocad release 12-14 full-time. Intellicad is an inexpensive autocad clone if you are interested in that.I have links to Datacad and other CAD sites on my web page athttp://home.att.net/~g.wheeler
*Hi Bill,I suspect one of the reasons you find autocad so intuitive whereas others don't is the very fact that you've been using it since 1982. In the beginning its features set wasn't nearly so daunting, I expect, and you've learned the new features as the programs capabilities expanded. Plus you've been indoctrinated in that particular program's logic.It's been the same for me with page layout programs. I've been using design programs since 1986, so they all seem pretty intuitive to me. I'm always amazed that people think QuarkXpress is a tough program. When I started trying to learn 3D CAD I thought it would be a simple jump from the 2D space to the 3D space. Was I ever wrong. I couldn't tell you why, but I just could not get the hang of it for months. Then one day I just had it. I still can't figure out why I ever had trouble with it. It all seems pretty intuitive to me now.Do you use AutoCad for 3D stuff, or just 2D? I do all my Minicad work in 3D.Steve
*Hi figuers,Have you had much success with the wall framing feature? I've not upgraded from MC6 and just got the promo stuff for VectorWorks and RenderWorks, and am tempted to get the bundle. Have you tried RenderWorks with VectorWorks? Rendering has been one of the weaker points of MiniCAD in my estimation.Steve
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I am a MiniCad7 user and am considering updating to Vector Works (MiniCad 8). From your comments it seems this is well worth it. I would appreciate any thoughts you have about the update. I have been using MiniCad7 for a very short time but seem to be catching on fairly rapidly. I have never used any other CAD software. I have however bought the book "Architectural Drawing in MiniCad 7" and it has really helped. I am wondering if most the commands remain the same or will I be learning all over again in Vector Works. Thanks. John
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No 3d - can sketch it quicker to solve the design problems.
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Steve - I do not do much wall framing in minicad, and am not the best person to answer that. Post the question at minicad-L, and you will get all the info you need (it is a great users group).
*I'm going to have to ring the MiniCad bell here as well; For ease of use and features, no contest! There is something really satisfying about linking items in a drawing to a spreadsheet (with part numbers and prices, for instance),then changing the part (a stud or sheet) and having the total cost adjust itself without your intervention. If you have the time to input the data for your parts and pieces, this thing can save you a ton of $$$ and time if you do work based estimates. I would recommend this to anyone who has suffered through an AutoCad learning curve.
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Hi Bill,
I think 3D is the greatest thing since sliced bread. It takes not much more time than 2D to do in MiniCAD, and once the thing is "built" in the computer, it solves endless communication problems with clients.
I used to just hand-draft my 2D drawings and labor for days over 3D perspective drawings.
I rarely ever produce a 2D drawing anymore. I produced 4 different layout variations on a kitchen last week in 3D and printed out about a dozen different perspective views. This took less than a day. The client loved them and wants to try a couple more options. I can cut sections from the 3D models with a couple of clicks. Changing things like windows and doors and rooflines takes only minutes.
The drawback to date with Minicad has been the lack of texure and detail you could easily produce without going to third party rendering software. I'm hoping newer versions take this ability further. I sometimes take a perspective printout from the computer, put it on the light table and trace over to do a "hand-drawn" perspective sketch with greater detail. If you never show them the computer drawings, they think you're a real artist!
Steve
Floating in xyz space,
Steve
*
As crazy as it may sound, the $50 3D Home Architect is more applicable to doing serious work than most realize. There's a bunch of IFs that have to be met for it to work well. IF you have good quality control in the field, IF you and your people are able to mentally "fill in the blanks" on the job in a way that reflects the desired quality, and IF you're interested in using something that you could actually get the client involved with, I think it works well...very well.
When you're dealing with potential clients, imagine not just showing them the computer as it produces the desired design, but giving the client the program itself to partly produce the plan in what would be a true collaborative effort. Admittedly this works with a minority of clients, but as everyone becomes more savvy, more clients can interact and be part of the process in this very way.
In summary, for some projects with certain attributes this program does it as good or better than any one them.
*
3D Home Arch has a new release out, better than before!
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Montana, which one is it?
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3.0. Actually mine is on backorder.
More furniture, choose siding, walk throughs, landscaping v's 2.0
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Kevin, I'm a retired double E and purchased MiniCAD 6 at a reduced price of $600 and looked forward to playing architect. DiehlGraphsoft, the company that designs and sells it didn't mention that they were upgrading (Major Change) in less than a year. I was angry as my upgraded computer operating system was then partially incompatible with MiniCAD 6 and they decided not to support patches for the Macintosh OS upgrade. I finally put up another $150 for MiniCAD 7. It is superior and there is a PC version now as well. In short it is not trivial to learn and use but in discussions with architect friends, I understand it is far simpler than the so called standard Auto CAD. Further, you are in luck as there was a recent contest comparing several of the common CAD programs and you can find the results via the Diehlgraphsoft web site. I give them credit because they did not come out the best and yet they freely publicize the results. Check it out; it's about 16 pages long. Also, about two years ago Fine Home Building had a comparison of CAD programs under $500. That would be worth getting. I still have it but have to try and find it. Conclusion: MiniCAD 7 is pretty darn good and reasonably easy to learn but I'd look long and hard at ArchiCAD which is a later entry but seems to have many good features as you will note when you visit the Diehlgraphsoft site.It may be less expensive as well.
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A word of warning about that FH article. I was going partly by that when i was shopping, and based on that article i bought Turbocad as it was supposed to be powerful and easy to use. By the time I bought, it was one or two versions on, more powerful but much less easy to use. A lot of those programs were DOS based, most of our new computers are Windows 95+, and you have to evaluate that article based on these changes.
*Ray,I'm running MiniCad6 with system 8.1, Haven't noticed any problems. What was the incompatibility of which you speak? Have you used the wall framing feature in MC7? Does it work? What do you hear about Vectorworks?Steve
*
Steve, there were three things that would not work but the one that stands out was the align objects feature. I really liked that capability and the ease of use but when I switched to OS 7.5.5 (I think it was at that point or 7.6.1) I could not get that feature to work. I had an 18 month guarantee of support but the Columbia MD folks decided to drop support. Be that as it may, it looks like the MAC OS upgrade may have fixed the problem per your comments. I use OS 8.1 also, but have not gone back to MiniCAD 6 to check things out as CAD version 7 is better. As to your second question, the answer is: not yet. I've been cranking out alternative re-modeling renditions and am about done. The detailed design is next. And, as to Vectorworks, I read the Diehlgraphsoft release material carefully and other than figueres' (Breaktime Feb 2 or 10) comments don't have any hands-on experience.I'd recommend contacting Janice Kent of Improbability Press who I think already has a book out about the new version. Without her books I'd be very slow on the uptake as these architectural program are pretty sophisticated compared to Canvas and other drawing programs that I used most of my career in aerospace.
*Are their any other comments about 3D home architect.
*
Ray,
I went to a 2-day seminar that Janice Kent held in Boston a couple years ago. I originally got into Minicad with version 4. I was completely unable to figure it out till I got her aftermarket book. I thought it would be easy afte learning Quark, photoshop,et al, but it was just a completely different mindset. Once I got it, I couldn't figure out why I had had any difficulty. I hope she writes a new book for vectorworks.
Still looking for someone who can tell me the wall framing module will work. Once burned twice shy.
Steve
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First I would like to say that I am an american living and
working in Germany as a journeyman woodworker and
am one test away from becoming a master. Over here
almost all you here about is CAD. I stumbled across
a drafting program called Draftboard, and am very happy with it. It is user friendly and very professional.
Just like any other program it does take some getting
used to, but when you have, then you can draft faster
than you could ever have imagined. Here in Germany
the program for personnal use costs about 40$. The
commercial version costs about 6000$. This program originated in the states so I am sure that it is
also on the market over there. Computers and software kost more over here, so I am sure that the price will not be more than about 40$.
p.s. Since I have been using this program the company where I work has also started using it.
With the extended version of this program"Vellum"
we also do all of our CNC programming with it.
*I have been using 3D for a while. There are many major annoyances with the program. MANY! But, it is really great for a lot of problem solving. The walls are "walls" as opposed to two lines. They move as a unit, are deleted as a unit, etc. But, they are 2", 4", 6" etc rather than 3 1/2" or 4 1/2" thick. A bit of a pain when trying to fit 2-8 doors into a 1300 sq.ft. plan ... But, I have taken plans from this program to the bank, and the building dept with no objections. And iff/when I do get good at some "real" CAD program, I would still use this to do fast sloppy sketches. A wonderful fast easy way to do if this, if thats. Again the anoyances with its limitations and irritations with the way it works has made me search for better (real)programs, but I think that it is way under-rated as a quick easy house drawing (not really CAD) program.
*
In the USA, I believe the program you call "Draftboard" is known as "Drawingboard". It was created by Ashlar, the people who make Vellum. I think they've dropped it or sold it but it can still be purchased. Try: drawingboard.com/support.html.
Also Ashlar.com.
It is the first and only CAD program I have ever had and I found it very easy to use and learn.
Got your ears on Jack?
I'd be interested in hearing from others who use or have used this program.
JonC
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We have used Chief Architect from ART for the past 6 years. We were happy with it for awhile and it is relatively easy to learn (it is the big brother to 3-D) but we have finally determined that for complete drawings, it is not worth the frustration of "work arounds" and odd quirks that the program has, especially in elevation and section views. We have purchased the much more expensive Archicad and look forward to it. We were blown away by the program at the National Assoc. of Home Builder's show in Dallas in Jan. We spent 6 hours in the booth and in the computer lab they had there checking the program out. It looks like our answer, (i hope!)
*
Jon,
Send me an old program to sample....as an email attachment possibly....Would love to kick its tires.
Talk to me about this program anytime,
Jack
*
I'm looking for CAD software for home design and construction - one that will detail wall framing. I've downloaded the demo from SoftPlan and it looks promising. But at $2800US (I'm from Canada) I would like to find something a little more economical ($1000?). Any advice would be appreciated.