I live in a 1950’s ranch style home with no basement. Yesterday the sewer line plugged up and I rented an auger at home depot. My sewer line is about 2 ft below ground level and I have two large trees in the back yard.
I found an “obstruction” in the sewer line between the clean out and the starting point of the sewer line under the home. The clean out is in the back yard about 6 ft from the house.
I ran some water into the sewer line as I was augering and I noticed a lot of dirty water flowing away from the obstruction.
What is going on here? Why do I have dirt and mud in my sewer line? The afflicted area is 4″ diameter cast iron. I think the afflicted area is about general vicinity where the sewer line passes through the foundation.
Any thoughts from the master?
Replies
The chances are the roots of the trees have penetrated the sewer line. They get in through the joints while they are still very fine, like hair, and over the years they grow and eventually force the pipe apart or even fracture it.
If this is the case, you will need to dig, partner. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news....
Dinosaur
A day may come when the courage of men fails,when we forsake our friends and break all bonds of fellowship...
But it is not this day.
and I noticed a lot of dirty water flowing away from the obstruction.
Sound to me like you no longer have a continuous closed pipe going to the sewer.
Get a shovel if you want, or call a plumber to do it for you. But note that plumbers charge just as much per hour to dig a hole as they do to replace valves and faucets.
Unless you're the lead dog, the view just never changes.
try an application of root rot....follow the instructions to the letter....DAMHIKT
As has been said, tree roots have compromised the (probably) clay pipe. In town? out of town? You're line probably is more than two feet down. Measure out how much snake went in freely to the obstruction and that will give you a rough idea where to dig, IF you want to try a repair. 1950's ranch, time to dig it all up if it hasn't been already.
DIY... 250.00 excavator, another couple hundred in ABS, Fittings, and misc tools you might not have, 50.00 to a buddy to watch while you dig.
LOCATOR SERVICE free in most states.
Eat shoots and run.
Turdage is dense.
OH wait..in yer yard?
Eat shoots and run.
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
No lack of sense of humor in here and I appreciate all responses. Update: I just flushed the tree root killer down the crapper and hopefully it will help.
In my home the interior 4" dia drain line is cast iron and it extends a few feet past the foundation. I know this because I dug it up a year ago to install the clean out.
The cast iron pipes were fitted together many years ago and hot molten metal was poured into the gaps.
I crawled under the house this evening and see that the cast iron 4" pipe is pretty rusty and I'm worried tree roots have gotten into a rust spot or a joint section which someone pointed out to me.
You guys are the greatest.
Oh and one last thing - just as a trivia question - one of the reasons tree roots enter the sewer line is for water. Does anyone know the other primary reason tree roots enter the sewer line?
Does anyone know the other primary reason tree roots enter the sewer line?
Because, like Everest, it's there....
Dinosaur
A day may come when the courage of men fails,when we forsake our friends and break all bonds of fellowship...
But it is not this day.
I can't argue with that! Or like a former president said "I did it just because I could!"
No, the correct answer is........the tree roots enter sewer lines to find "nutrients".
There you go! Thanks for coming in tonite ladies and gentleman! Remember two drink minimum please!....Please tip your waitresses folks!...
Good nite everyone!
New tree ants?
Sam T: I'm not sure what you mean by new tree ants? I do have ants in the trees in the back yard?
11:34 AM update: I have dug down and appear to have found the problem area.
The problem appears to be the joint section where the first clay tile pipe connects to the 4" cast iron which comes from the inside of the home. I live in town and have no basement and the sewer line is about 2 to 3 ft below ground.
Interestingly the first clay pipe joint is a female connection (bell shaped end) and most of the bell shaped area of the tile is gone and there are 1/4 inch tree roots entering the sanitary drain line. The bell shaped area is just "gone" and quite a bit of clay tile area is just missing and seems to have just disintegrated?
I will remove the clay tile and install 4" plastic pipe and will advise if any other anomolies are noted.
Thank you again!
Some municapalities require a permit for a sewer line repair. Replace the broken tiles with a sch 40 & Fernco it togethier. You should be able to flush again. In my area with all the willow trees a good auger with a root cutter works great. Some houses here do it once a year.
Also Fernco is located here in our town, Davison, MI. Use lots of them, they employee a bunch of town folks!! In fact use a couple dozen of them on that repair!
Wanted to ad another observation.
A couple of days ago I augered the sanitary drain line. My clean out is in the back yard and about 6' from the house.
For future reference when I auger "with the flow" of the pipe I will do so with the understanding that the pipe joints fit together differently than when I go the other direction and back toward the the house and "upstream".
When I augered the sewer line I now realize that I "felt something" I was not hitting tree roots, instead, I was hitting the male end of the pipe.
I think I ran the auger until I hit the male end of the cast iron and I wrongly assumed I was at the end underneath the home.
Agree?
You are right, the roots are seeking water and food. "May the force be with you".
5 PM update
After further evaluation I've noted the following: The cast iron 4" sanitary sewer line extends about one foot past the foundation. In the crawl space the 4" cast iron extends inside by about 6 to 7' and kind of looks like an octopus with the various drains and vent feeding into it.
The interior section has sagged downward by about an inch. It's supported by an old pipe strap but as you all know the section of cast iron pipe its very heavy.
When the crawl space pipe sagged downward the exterior pipe then tilted upward slightly and broke away the bell end or female end of the first section of clay tile sanitary sewer line! Sounds kind of crazy but it true!
I'm considering fixing this by using a rubber connector with two hose clamps (rather than removing the 3-4 ft section of clay sewer line. Agree? Disagree?
Thanks again Amigos!
As described, the cast iron male end fits kind of crooked into the first section of the clay tile which leads away from the home.
It's going to be very difficult in the future to get an auger to enter the cast iron (since it sits crooked). This will occur when I try to clean out the sewer line from the clean out and when I'm going "upstream".
Is this a common scenario?
Let me see if I understand what your prob. is. The cast iron sagged in the crrawl space and broke the bell on the terra-cotta pipe, [Clay]. You want to repair with a fernco coupling; this will work but you have to cut the clay bell off, this will leave your pipe too short, the pipes need to be butting, any large gap will cause future stoppage problems. What I would do is get a small piece of pvc, cut the bell off and use two fernco couplings. A friendly plumber will give this to you if he has it.
My computer decided to not let me respond to your other problem on the same post. But I'am back. You have to get the sag out of the cast iron. Cleaning downstream of a clog is a no-no, you could end up with a face full of shxt. Lots of luck.
Thank you folks for your responses. I appreciate the info you've been kind enough to provide !!
One more trivia question! Hehe
Yesterday I scraped the problem joint clean and I wondered what kind of "gasket" was used between the cast iron and the clay pipe. I examined it and was kind of surprised at what I found.
Anyone want to venture a guess as to what was used way back then?
Thank you ! Yesterday I found wax as the gasket material between the cast iron and clay sanitary sewer line. Very fine tree roots had gone right through the wax!
I don't think wax is a very good way to seal those joints!
Today I'll put it all back together. I'm considering pouring some rock salt in the hole and surrounding the joint to discourage any further roots entering the sewer line.
Agree?
I honestly don't know, but I'm thinking that rock salt is a great way to accelerate the death of the cast iron pipe...
Excellent thought - I've been wondering the same and am considering keeping the rock salt below the cast iron.
I haven't done my fill in yet and I'm considering another option and that is sprinking "root kill" in the bottom of the hole.
Root kill is the product you buy and pour in the toilet and flush it down to attack tree roots. The primary ingredient is
"Copper Sulfate Pantahydrate" which is 99%
The reason I'm considering these options is there really are a lot of roots in the area surrounding this joint in the sewer line. Several good sized roots even went through the foundation (they stayed right beside the sewer line as it protrudes through the concrete foundation).
Yesterday I spoke to an older man at home depot and his recommendation was to seal the joint by mixing up two bags of quikrete and adding concrete around the leaking joint as a measure to seal it and also to keep tree roots away.
Agree or disagree?
Clay pipe should be sealed with oakum and cement [old style] or a rubber o-ring [new style], wax is totally bogus. I agree with wrudiger rock salt is a bad idea, it definitely will corrode metal, clay I'm not sure of, [it does have a bad effect on concrete].
I live in Kansas and tree roots in sewer lines are very common. Many homes have Roto Rooter come in once a year on a regularly scheduled basis. Companies offer a reduced price if cleaning is scheduled.
If a home has a finished basement it's well worth the cost of about $100 to pay Roto Rooter to prevent sewer line back up into a basement. The smell is terrible but the black mix of water, dirt, and cooking oil or grease combines in a sewer line to form a nasty substance some refer to as "sludge" and this oily substance is very difficult to remove from carpeting.
Around these parts some homes require Roto Rooter to come in 4-5 times per year. These are typically the older homes in the older neighborhoods with the large old trees.
With regard to rock salt and cast iron. It's a common procedure around here to pour a cup of rock salt in the toilet and flush it down as a cheaper method of root kill (rather than paying $7 or $8 for root kill at home depot). Maybe this is not such a good idea, although I don't see anything wrong with me pouring rock salt into my clean out which connects to clay.
Yesterday I called a company and asked how much it costs for them to run their camera through the line and I was told $145. I've decided I'm not going to go that route. Wish I could rent a camera for a few bucks.
One last comment I have is tree roots have likely penetrated each and every joint of the clay pipe of my sewer line. That's right folks. It's inevitable. The clay sections are either 3' or 4' in length and that's a lot of connections. It's about 60 ft from my house to the city sewer line.
In my opinion a drain auger does not remove tree roots from a sewer line. You can run the auger, attach a different cutter, repeat the process and use every cutter known to mankind and the roots are still there. Obviously the auger removes any large obstacles and water will flow again, but in reality the tree roots are still there. In time they will grow and form a donut shaped growth in the line which will get bigger and bigger until it plugs the line and the process has gone full circle.
Also, around here if a house has sat empty for a period of time it's almost a guarantee the sewer line will have problems with tree roots. Tree root growth rate increases when there is little or no activity in the sewer line.
Agree?
If you are dumping rock salt down the toilet or cleanout that shouldn't cause that much of a problem, [I thought that you were putting it in the ditch]. You are right that every joint will have a root problem, the reason being that they were not installed correctly in the first place. If you plan to use cement for a joint repair you still should use oakum, not cement only. Luck.
Got to wondering how close you are to just digging up the line and putting in PVC.
be don't you hate when that happens?
sleeps till noon but before it's dark...
I did go ahead and have the utilities marked (in the event I need to tear out all the old sewer line). I got to talking to one of the guys and he said "pour a gallon of clorox down the toilet once a month and no more tree roots in the sewer line"
I fixed my problem by placing a rubber connector where the cast iron meets the clay tile. Hey it's worked just fine thus far!
I'm sorry guys but I'm what you call "tight with my money". I don't fix anything until I've tried the easiest and cheapest methods first. No I'm not scottish in my background. I'm irish but don't hold that against me.