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My wife loves the look of cedar lap siding and is convinced that we should use it on our next house. I agree that the cedar looks great, but I am leery of the extra cost and maintenance over something like vinyl siding.
Anyone have experience – positive and negative – with cedar lap siding? Anyone know an estimated cost per square? I am also concerned about the maintenance involved – what finish do you use and how often is re-coat necessary? We live in central lower Michigan – lots of snow – the house will have dormers whose sidewalls may sit in contact with snow on the roof for long periods of time.
Thanks in advance for the info.
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First, let me compliment your wife on her aesthetic tastes.
It's tough to address cost issues, as they vary by region. A call to a lumberyard ("yard", not "box") may provide a firm material cost and a rough estimate for installation costs.
Cedar maintenance? Stain it every 7-10 years or so. Depending on the look you want, use anything from a clear finish to a transparent stain (grain shows through) to a solid-body stain, which will look like "paint". Painting (staining) does cost $$, but you can change the look/color of your house, something you can't do with plastic.
Plastic? As long as it's installed properly, it'll look pretty bad. If your installer messes the installation up, it'll look really bad. I am impartial, BTW.
Cedar does provide a better barrier to wind-blown water than does plastic and doesn't tend to buckle or heave in hot weather. It looks nicer. Cedar claps don't unzip during temp swings and expansion cycles.
I think cedar a far superior product. Is it worth the extra $$ to install and maintain. To me, that's part of the pride of ownership. Some consider any maintenance a chore, but I'd much rather be seen re-staining my house every 7-10 years instead of power washing and re-zipping my plastic siding every spring and fall.
Cedar was used as siding long before plastic came on the scene, it was used in all climates. And it's still on those houses, doing just fine.
Look at this as an opportunity to "get points" by saying to your wife "You were right, honey".
Lots of folk here like plastic...I'm just not one of them.
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I agree with Mongo. If you use cedar, back prime or seal all sides first. Fir out your walls with lath between sheathing and siding for the best result, this will allow the siding to breathe, and both siding and finish will last longer. Don't use a house wrap behind the cedar, the tanins in the cedar break down the wrap (i.e. Tyvek) and allow water to pass through. Use good old fassioned tar paper.
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Adam, I could not agree more with Mongo and Steve. I would use cedar (and do quite often on my projects) and would feel quite confident about saying that it will probably outlast you even if you do nothing more than install it properly. Steve hit part of instyallation right on with furring out the walls a bit (Ifind an 1/8-1/4inch is plenty). Make sure you run a starter strip to seal the bottom and one at the top. I found if I was siding over board sheathing I did not need to fur out the walls. Over plywood I would. I also have little use for tyvek or the new housewraps. If sitting snow is a problem, I would run a starter course of 15# felt, but I like using rosin paper. It helps disperse moisture better, thus allowing it to evaporate off quicker. A couple other pointers. The narrower the lap siding, the less movement you will find in your boards over the years. I prefer hand nailing 6or 7d stainless ringshank box nails or I have used MAZE Co. splitless siding nails with good results. Some galvanized nails will bleed out in cedar. Regardless of the nails, drive them into your studs just snug, do not set them. Also just kiss the top edge of the previous course board, donot drive through it. You want your boards to expand and contract without splitting. I try to hold back about 1" from my ends and sometimes have to predrill if splitting is likly. Butt joints in the field, I cut with a 15degree backcut. Butts against corners, casing etc, I backcut about 2-3 degrees and run my caulk ( a good exterior latex) behind the boards. I try to make all my joints tight. If your lap siding or clapboards donot have a rabbited edge, rip the top edge, 1-1/2-- 2inchs wide for a starter course. This allows the same pitch of the siding at the start.
As far as back-priming, I usually do'nt bother and have not found a need to do so. But I usually use a penetrating oil with UV protectants. I find 2 -3 coats will hold up for 5years here in the Montana sun.
You will have a beautiful house when you are done, something to sit back and enjoy. Let it age with a natual clear finish and watch it age. Go for it. Walk good david
*Adam, I live in a house in northern B.C.Canada,and we get the extemes of weather up here.My house has 12"beveled cedar siding on it and still looks great after 30 yrs.I use and recommend it on any job where the house looks like it should have it.I prefer a clearer stain (Sikkens Cetol 1, or Olympic) with U.V.protectant I also recommend backpriming(cheaper type stain or returned merchandise)I'm surrounded by forestry industies and am surprised at the price of cedar(and good quality stains)in my town.but never surprised at the look of a wood sided home next to a vinyl one. Bite the bullet if your around to see it in 30yrs.my guess is you'll be glad you chose the cedar.P.S.Daves right re:felt paper near the standing snow,also don't hold back on the flashing in those areas of the roof.Good Luck, Larry Sivell
*Great follow-on advice from Steve, David and Larry.Here are a couple more threads from the past that may provide additional ammo to comments already made. One contains a clear finish trough application technique by David Giuliani that I thought was quite innovative. Link 1 Link 2 Link 3 Link 4
*Forget plastic. That's for everyone who wants to throw up a cheap house.Everything worth owning needs maintenance of some kind-and even if you let the cedar go in ten years without restaining it, it will look better than brand new vinyl. You could go the route of no finish at all. You need high quality shingles from older trees, cut from the heartwood to do it right though.Not to nitpick, David, but I think your nails are from Mazell Co. for spelling purposes, just in case he wants to buy their nails. They are a big name in fasteners. You want stainless steel nails for cedar, don't use anything else.Also, when lap jointing two pieces horizontally, you want it on a pretty severe angle, more than most saws can readily handle. One of the best ways to cut these angles is with an adze, an archaic timber framing tool. It takes half a minute when you get good at it, using a homemade jig.But as Mongo suggested, your pride of ownership makes all of this effort worth it. The houses with cedar, stucco, and other "organic" materials from the past stand out as quality structures; the vinyl encased houses popping up all over look like cheap tract housing (many are indeed that) and to me are reminiscent of trailers. I didn't check the threads Mongo referenced but there has been a lot of good information tossed around Breaktime about cedar siding.MD
*Hello Adam,I sided the new home I am building with vertical grain hemlock 6" bevel, finished with Sikkens Cetol 1 and 23. It priced out significantly cheaper than cedar, and stained is almost indistinguishable. Has been up over a year without any stability problems.Agree with the good advice you have been given - stainless ringshank nails and 15 or 30lb. felt underneath. Have you thought of cedar shingles? Makes a pretty house, too. Good luck, JN
*MD, The company I was refering to is Maze Nails Co. The make a galvanized siding nail called "splitless" in 6-8d box ringshank. It is the only galvanized nail I have found that does not bleed out in cedar or redwood. Do not know about oak. http://www.mazenails.com walk good. da
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Check out custom siding techniques a discussion I just started.
*Adam,I used cedar siding on the last house I built and lived in for 7 years. The house was located on a 5 acre wooded lot with a creek out back, vinyl siding would of been an insult to the beauty of the land.You will need to decide if you want to go with a natural (clear) finish or a semi / solid stain. Also you will need to choose a grade ( the less knots the more $). We chose to go with a few knots and a clear finish. However if you are building close to a bunch of houses with vinyl siding , you might want to lean toward a solid color stain, so it will fit in with the neighborhood better.I backprimed, front primed, primed all edges, with Seasonite by Flood. I used some Maze splitless nails that were colored a dead match the same color as the siding. I used Big Stretch caulk , again there was a color that matched the siding beautifully. David had some good advice on the butt joint cuts , I put a little tar strip there coming over top the lower course. Per Flood's instructions I waited a year and then put on a real heavy coat of CWF-UV (clear).The siding has performed well. I never had any cracking or splitting of the boards. You need to be careful with ladders, whenever you need to put a ladder against the siding, make sure it is where the siding overlaps itsself. We did have to scrub a few spots after 5 years and recoat it with CWF-UV , then it looked awesome again. Cedar siding will tend to gray and blacken around dormers and on the bottom course or two from all the rain splashing. If you put on a solid color stain this will not be as much a problem and you could go much much longer before you have to restain.If I were to do it over again I would probably use a semi-colored stain for less maintenance.We sold the house and bought a townhouse to live in until I get our next house built. This is the first time I've lived in a house with vinyl siding and I discovered a new reason to dislike vinyl siding which is, that it is noisy when the wind blows. I am constantly being woken up in the middle of the night (especially in the winter) from the flapping noise that vinly siding makes when the wind blows hard. The last house with the siding nailed down like siding was meant to be, was so quiet.
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I just finished replacing 1950's vintage 9.5" beveled cedar siding with 8" beveled cedar.
I gave up stripping the 6 layers of paint and didn't want to repaint. Plus some of the boards had started to deteriorate from moisture damage.
After much researching of alternative material, including HardiPlank, went back to cedar.
Used Flood CWF (clear finish) and coated all sides of the boards BEFORE cutting and installing them.
All cut ends were coated again before installing.
In order to facilitate removal without damaging the boards, I predrilled the boards and used a product called "ACR Phillips II exterior screws" with rustproof durafast coating. It is cedar colored and comes with a ACR Phillips II bit enclosed in a 5 lb box.
I was going to use stainless nails but decided on screws. Stainless screws would have been VERY expensive.
I love the look of the real wood and money spent is well worth it.
Plus the material is so much more satisfying to work with.
And my VW van smell like a cedar closet from hauling the bundles of 12' boards !
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Adam, your wife and mine are alike. All of the information I have read above is accurate and good. I have built with Cedar, vinyl, HardiPlank and L/P and agree that Cedar is by far more asthetically pleasing. However, noone mentioned the down-side of the product. Do you have @!#% woodpeckers and other critters? They can and will lay waste to that good tasting cedar. Also bear in mind the effect of weather sun on south and west side of your house. We have a thick butted product on our house. The North, East and covered/protected sides look like the day they were put on. The South and West sides have taken a beating and show it. If you are going to stay with a natural look or semi transparent stain and cost and upkeep are not a factor, then go with the cedar and buy one of those fake owls and perch it on your roof. An old reliable 12 guage works well, but wait until they get away from the house! If you are thinking about a solid stain, painting, and minimal upkeep consider Hardiplank over plastic or LP. I almost hate to put it in the same context as Cedar, but it is one of those like/hate things. Notice, like not love. The stuff is bullet proof and once you learn to work with it, not bad to install. And woodpeckers hate the stuff. Happy trails. Glenn
*Adam,I am the prowd owner of a cedar sided home. No more work than an ordinary house if the job is done correctly. Absolutely have the installer use stainless steel ring shank nails. I also live in a snowy region that is hard on clear finishes. I prefer Cabots semi-transparent stain. Just finished using Cabots Sequoia Red on my cedar and am very happy with the look. Used Floods CWF product for the last 8 years and had to recoat every other year. The product just doesn't hold up in this climate. Semi-transparent is the way to go in my opinion.Dave
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if you want a clear finish and you don't want a lot of shiny SS nails grinning at you.. use a silicone-bronze ring-shank boat nail....
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Someone mentioned to me the other day that he had done a siding job where he nailed it above the lap line, a nail in every stud. He said it looked good seven years later, buit that was with very good material. Has anyone else tried that technique?
*Pretty good discussion... I'mm from British Columbia, on the coast, and I've used plenty of cedar siding, both on my own houses and ones I've built for clients. A couple ofpoints... cedarar is wonderful, no doubt about it... howeverver, it seems almost impossible to get any good stuff any more. The price is in $1400/thousand range and it's mostly quite poor quality. The bevel siding is even worse although if you insist on it, I would stick with narrower 6" material. Also, forget about trying outside mitre ccorners... they look great to begin with, but they will open. The channel siding performs better because it lies flat to the paper and seems generally more secure. It can be installed either vertically or horizontally.In terms of finishes, I think any good quality material will perform well. I personally favor Glidden products although Benjamin Moore is also good, though more expensive. The raw wood should initially be primed with some sort of oil based product. After that, I like the solid latex stain. You have a good range of colours to choose from and recoats are pretty simple.I'm quite impressed with Hardiplank. I think it's the wave of the future. I'm not too impressed with some of the ways that people detail it around windows, corners, etc. but this will work itself out... regards, Jim
*I am designing a small addition to my living room and dining room. does anyone know of a cad type program that doesn't cost a fortune to assist me in my drawings. thanks
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Bill,
You buried you question in the bowels of another thread. My suggestion? First, do a search using "cad" and "drawing" as your keywords. Click < Obsolete Link > here to see the results.
This search result previous threads that discussed your topic. Click on any one post and that will bring you to that post within the topic thread. Then click on ALL MESSAGES to see the thread in it's entirety.
Once you've read through everything, go back to the main page and click on ADD DISCUSSION to post your modified question for all to see.
I've got a nagging feeling that you'll never be able to find this thread to read my reply, but what the heck...
optimistically,
Mongo
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My wife loves the look of cedar lap siding and is convinced that we should use it on our next house. I agree that the cedar looks great, but I am leery of the extra cost and maintenance over something like vinyl siding.
Anyone have experience - positive and negative - with cedar lap siding? Anyone know an estimated cost per square? I am also concerned about the maintenance involved - what finish do you use and how often is re-coat necessary? We live in central lower Michigan - lots of snow - the house will have dormers whose sidewalls may sit in contact with snow on the roof for long periods of time.
Thanks in advance for the info.