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Does anyone have advice as to how to cope inside mitres on a cathedral ceiling where the side walls are 8′ high and the cathedral ceiling reaches to 20′. The cathedral ceiling meets the side wall at a 19′ angle. The moulding is similar to the piece shown on page 83, upper left corner, of the May 2000 edition of Fine Homebuilding. I would appreciate any information. I would especially appreciate being advised as to the use of a grinder using #80 grit paper. Thanks in advance.
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Funny, I believe this is the eave/rake moulding Q, but the inside corner version. Thoughts out there in cyberland?
My reply would be that you can't do it without getting a different size of the same profile (narrower stock on the end wall) or varying the spring angle of one of the mouldings to compensate (likely ugly result)... lots on this in the eave/rake discussions of yore.
If you view the second moulding as an oblique projection of the first -- like the difference between YOUR profile and that of your shadow passing a streetlamp -- it is easier to understand.
Really, as I understand the theory, mouldings are designed to be observed from a certain angle (crown from below, bed mould from not-so-far below baseboard from above, chairrail kinda level), and running crown up an ascending cathedral would put this perspective out of whack. Could you use a different moulding on the end wall, preferably a flat one such as baseboard or rake mould? (Is there a "traditional" solution to this?) You would also need a suitable transition at the junction of the two -- with a large enough end wall mould you could simply butt the crown into it.
Everyone has their favorite tool for fine-tuning copes. I like my barrel-handle Bosch jigsaw, haven't really tried the grinder yet ... "bucksnort billy" mentioned doing this a while back, check the archives.
Gosh, isn't it time for a good FH article on geometry?
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Stan:
Crown Mold is designed to be installed on the same
plane. There's about a 3-16's difference for every
6 degrees.The miter on the rake piece gets longer as the angle of the rake incrases. One
solution is to make inside corner boxes up, and then run the crown to them, with a simple 90 DEGREE cut.
*Stan,Looks like we're working on the same project.I solved that particular problem by making boxes (4.5x3.75)with one angle to match the ceiling pitch. I also made a detail for the bottom of the block out of two pieces of the crown cut at 45 degree angle like an outside corner.for a different look you can cut the crown upside down.I made the blocks from 3 pieces of oak(since the crown and trim are oak)mitered so that you see only face grain ,two side pieces are matching grain and bottom is continuous grain from the side piece which is seen most often.sorry if this reads like a foreign instruction manual.i wish i knew how to draw you a picture and post it.I think you can buy these cornice block moldings already made.it could save some hassle.you also have to cut the block to fit the walls unless your crown is painted and you can caulk the gaps in the not usually square wall junctions.practice makes perfect:,> lol. Troy
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It's really not that hard. You just need to make a small transition piece.
At the end of your level run, cut a regular, 90 deg. inside miter joint as though the second (rake) wall were level as well. Next, cut a piece with a regular miter cut on one end. Then, on the other end, cut a miter in the opposite plane of the first cut. This cut will be at half the angle of your ceiling pitch (9.5 degrees in your case?) It should meet the first cut on the face, at the point where the crown hits the ceiling. This piece, if glued onto the end of your rake crown moulding, will "bend" that piece around into a horizontal plane.
Done it a few times with excellent results, but, as I've never had to explain it before, I hope it makes sense. If not, contact me and I will fax you a sketch or two. (Unfortunately, I don't have Fusco's expertise [or the time] to post an elaborately detailed drawing for you.)
Have fun
*Thank you Phil, that's really neat. I don't think I've heard of it or seen it before.If I can try an analogy, what i think you're describing is the universal joint in a driveshaft -- you know, two hinges that each can turn only in one axis, but which bound together can traverse two axes in a continuous piece.Speaking English, crown can only make one turn at a time, in relation to either the wall or ceiling planes but not both at once. The transition piece is a universal joint: the first cut is the first hinge and turns from Wall A to Wall B (90°), the second cut is the second hinge and turns from Wall B 0° (horizontal) to Wall B rake°; together they can make the turn without ... breaking the joint, as with the transition boxes described above, or a cheap Soviet truck bouncing down the road.Is this sensible? I'd like to see what this detail looks like.
*Thanks, Andrew--I am glad that you got the concept and were able to clarify the concept. I forgot one crucial detail--to make this work without a rather large gap between Wall A and the top of your crown, you need to modify a stock crown moulding. Very simple, actually--just rip the top edge of the crown to an angle corresponding to your ceiling/wall angle. (You'll save a few cases of caulk that way.)
*By the way, Stan--What do a grinder and 80 grit sandpaper have to do with installing crown moulding, anyway?
*I think I'd try to use a planer. Obviously, beyond a certain slope the crown just isn't going to work anymore. Soffits along the side walls might be nice instead, with concealed uplighting. Some sort of "cornice" detail could handle the endwalls.The grinder -- some use them to shape miters and copes to final fit. I'm still looking for something easy to do at the top of a ladder, being a fan of copes.
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It seems to me that the idea of running crown molding on a cathedral or vaulted ceiling is a clash of two different styles and looks. agree with Andrew I who suggested a soffitt around the room and a cornice detail on the end walls. At least, it would make for a more consistent look.
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Does anyone have advice as to how to cope inside mitres on a cathedral ceiling where the side walls are 8' high and the cathedral ceiling reaches to 20'. The cathedral ceiling meets the side wall at a 19' angle. The moulding is similar to the piece shown on page 83, upper left corner, of the May 2000 edition of Fine Homebuilding. I would appreciate any information. I would especially appreciate being advised as to the use of a grinder using #80 grit paper. Thanks in advance.