Hi,
i’m interested to learn icf building systems(i am a stone mason).I was hoping to be steered towards a choice icf system producer for training from someone with exprience with different systems. I live in southern Ontario near Toronto.
Thanks
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http://www.buildblock.com
I just started using these. They do have some advantages over a couple of others I have used.
An important concern should be to find a reliable supplier of the forms in your area, so research that angle, unless you do enough work that you would want to open an account to buy direct, but that usually requires taking a truckload every month or three as a minimum.
I have a thread going on in the photo gallery titled "Jack that house John Henry" that hits a lot of ICF issues.
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Since you've used ARXX in the past I'm really curious about the advantages of the new blocks you're using.
The ease of use of the ARXX bracing has always been a major advantage of that system, but our supplier is doing much more volume now and the bracing is really getting beaten up.
It also seems ARXX should increase the number of hard points to screw to on the corners.
Curious, but don't tell our supplier. :-)
Beer was created so carpenters wouldn't rule the world.
They are very similar. However, Buildblock has better corners that go either left or right and allow for vertical rebar reinforcing in the foam corner.
They have integrated cut lines embossed on the sides for convenience.
Also important for me, they are cheaper.
_______________________________________________________________
Common sense and a sense of humor are the same thing, moving at different speeds. A sense of humor is just common sense, dancing. -William James
Edited 2/19/2007 10:35 pm by Heck
The corners themselves is one of the advantages. They have a screw plate in there, and the rest of the screw plates are wider than AARX.Add to that the fact that the BB corners are reversable, so you don't have to specificly order left and right corners. Flip it over and itworks and snaps to the pattern.One thing that alsways bothered me on the AARX was that if you got a light snow and it melted in slightly, you had the honeycomb snap pattern all filled with ice and had to nip all those littel flakes out to get things to fit together because they traped water. These are a dental pattern very much like the ones that show clearly in the Polysteel that MG was demonstrating in a photo I posted from that conference. I think the dentals in his are 1" while in the BB they are 1/2" repeats.Those supplieers get tempermental when you flirt with others don't they? It can be like High School dating all over again.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Piffin,
With most ICF's, you can slide 2 1/2" steel stud channel over the top edge to protect them from filling up with snow - or concrete during a pour. Logix has more foam than the others so is a bit more trouble to work with in winter. Channels won't fit.
The reversible systems like Integra Spec and a few others sure do reduce the waste, but any offcuts can be used somewhere. My attic has a layer of offcut foam salvaged from two jobs which I placed up there before blowing cellulose on top.
Ron
I know about that trick once they are stacked, but when they get delivered or sit on th ejob overnight before stacking...
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Piffin,
Right, and when they freeze into one solid lump you want some delicacy of hand to get them apart without damagin anything.
Ron
Those supplieers get tempermental when you flirt with others don't they?
That's for sure! He does send a few DIY and contractors over our way for hand holding and ARXX 101 on their own projects, which is kinda fun, but it wouldn't be much to give up if we switched brands.
Was there much of a learning curve to the actual pour with respect to the strength of the blocks vs. ARXX?
Does the supplier rent the bracing, or do you use generic braces of some type?
Beer was created so carpenters wouldn't rule the world.
We pour today, so mor on that later. I brace from the inside mostly, by tieing to each other and to the rebar grid. See my thread on the photo section called Jack that house John Henry on that issue
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
There are at least two different types of ICF - the standard ICFs made from polystyrene (some of which use plastic or metal ties between sheets of polystyrene) and those that are composed of cement mixed with small bits of polystyrene or with treated wood chips. The later type are more like working with concrete filled CMUs, only the blocks are larger.
Durisol uses the cement and treated wood chips approach and they are located in Canada, possibly in your general area.
http://www.durisol.com/
Faswall uses the same approach, but I don't know if they have a plant near you. http://www.faswall.com/tech.html
Rastra uses a cement and bits of polystyrene block that I think is larger than the others. They are a European company, but I seem to remember that they have a plant on the west coast of Canada (wouldn't swear to that), they may have others in Canada.
http://www.rastra.com/wi_ra.htm
I have used a lot of different systems in Nova Scotia. At the present time, I quite like Integra Spec for the speed of installation and local availability. I like Logix for the price. Amvic offers some features I'd like to see in others but is not available here. It is manufactured just outside TO.
Generally speaking, once these things are installed and poured, they are all the same. The differences between one and another are plusses and minusses for the installers and you might choose one or the other depending on the job at hand. Now I think of it, you have termites in TO, don't you? See if you can find an ICF that is treated with borates to repel them.
What I would do in your place is visit some of the distributors and choose one based on how they treated me, on price, on product availability and on support from the distributor. Not much help, I know.
Ron
Ron
thanks Ron,
i think that sounds like a good aproachPaul
Here is a product/company that is available in Ontario. http://www.integraspec.com/frame.html
Our home was built with them about 3 years ago (in the middle of winter), and the same builder still uses them for almost all homes he builds up here ( Sudbury, ON). We have not had any troubles with our home, which was built with this system from foundation to roofline.
In Toronto your best option is Amvic (http://www.amvicsystem.com) . They're a local manufacturer (in Markham), which means low transportation costs. Assembled forms like Amvic take a lot of space. If you want to go with someone who isn't local, knock-down forms take up a lot less space on a truck (and on a building site), but more time for re-assembly.
The Amvic forms are reversible, so you basically have one block and one 90 degree corner to work with. Of course there are also 45s, brick-ledge forms etc. if you need them. But the nice thing about the reversibility is that you can rip a course of forms to get an odd height to match existing construction etc. and potentially save a half course of forms.
The foam is 2.5" thick. Even though they're not 100% necessary, using 2.5" steel stud track to cap the forms gives you a nice screeding surface as well as acting as a termite shield.
Amvic also makes and sells sheet foam at the same location, and offers it at a good price.