Replies

1. 
   CA_Medic | Aug 15, 1999 06:12am | #1

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   I am looking at buying a 1947 house that is cinder block construction. This type of construction is very rare around here (California Sacramento Valley) and I had some questions...
   In general, what are your feelings about cinder block houses?

   How well do they insulate?

   Are repairs and remodeling difficult, for example, is changing to new Anderson windows, or putting in a new exterior door, going to cost a lot more than it would on a house built with wood framing?

   Will moisture always seep in? The weather here is fairly dry with low humidity (20" rainy season).

   Climate control: We have 100 degree plus summers, and winters that get down to the low 30s. How well can you insulate a cinder block house? Will my gas and electric bills be any different from a wood frame house?

   Currently, the outside of the house is the exposed blocks themselves. The house is built in 1947, ranch style. Is it expensive to stucco or place some other type of 'more attractive' siding on?

   If I ever wanted to add on, I was told that building up is not an option. Is it difficult to add an extra room at ground level?

   Any tips I should think about when viewing this house? Sorry about the ignorance, but we just don't have this type of construction in my city (residential, at least). Any info at all on the pros and cons of buying a cinder block house would be MUCH appreciated!

   Thanks in advance, Mike Shuken.

2. 
   Guest_ | Aug 15, 1999 07:12am | #2

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   Hi Mike,

   The majority of the questions are best answered by your doing your homework as a homebuyer.

   Look at the history of the utility bills to determine the cost of heating your investment.

   If the house is in good condition and has no structural defects, there is no reason to doubt that it will last for a hundred years.

   If the house has no insulation and remember there may be some inside the blocks in the form of vermiculite, you can still add rigid insulation to the inside or the outside and stucco the surface.

   Renovations can still be cost effective with masonry it just needs different products and attention thats all.

   But like I said, do a little homework and you should be better informed to make this important decision.

   Gabe

3. 
   CA_Medic | Aug 15, 1999 10:22am | #3

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   Thanks Gabe. Yes, I definately plan on doing my homework, and I thought I would start here! We are going to be looking at th ehouse later this week and I wanted to get a list of things together that I should be keeping my eyes open for. I have several "home buying books" that have checklists, but like I mentioned before, there are only a few cinder block homes in my whole city, so I wanted to see if there was a reason for that, ie. perhaps they're rare because they're not as desirable. Thanks for your comments...
   Mike

4. 
   Guest_ | Aug 16, 1999 07:52am | #4

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   I have often wondered why so many commercial buildings - supermarkets, schools, theaters etc. are built with CMUs. It must be quite a bit less expensive, yet, they have to heat and cool those buildings too. Food for thought. - jb

1. 
   Guest_ | Aug 16, 1999 09:02am | #5

   *Mike, don't have enough knowledge to answer your questions, but I wish to mention a point you may not have considered. There are many block homes around here, all built as 2nd homes for the use of S.J. valley folks when they want to escape the scalding summer heat.It is the quality of construction or "frugalness" of the builder which I want to address. While they are built to be 2nd homes, they are second-rate homes, for sure. Is the quality of materials and/or the quality of construction up to snuff? If not, I'd pass, since you'd be inheriting alot of trouble. If you cannot answer this question yourself, I suggest you find some objective party who can.F'rinstance, check the wiring. Some of those older models have a 50 Amp main which will cost a few giggles to upgrade. Are there bare splices--without a J box--lying about? How about those windows? Are they slightly larger than standard dimensions? In a block house, these conditions can add up to a big % of the initial purchase price. Do you have orangeberg wasteline under the driveway ready to collapse? As has been mentioned, do your homework.

1. 
   Guest_ | Aug 16, 1999 11:50am | #6

   *I have seen some very nicely done concrete block homes in the Southwest. Particularly when the materials used mimic adobe. Unfortunately most concrete block houses are low end. Residentual builders who opt for concrete block are generally looking for low sq ft cost and they carry this over into the other parts of the structure - flat or low pitch roofs in particular.You need to check out this house very carefully. It may be a gem and then again? Make sure that the price you pay reflects true value and not the competitive sq ft market price for conventional construction in your area. Concrete block homes are relatively easy to cool in the Summer but hard to heat in the Winter. If the structure you are looking at was built in 47 it almost certainly does not have any insulation in the blocks. That stuff is not very effective anyway. It may or may not have insulation in the attic. You can remodel anything. Just remember, a concrete block house with Anderson windows is still a concrete block house.One exception to all this is Florida and the Gulf Coast. Concrete block is used extensively in premium construction there because of climate concerns. Exterior walls are stucco and interior surfaces are dry wall over strapping. Ceilings are insulated. The result is resistant to tropical decay and high winds. Heating is not an issue but cooling is. Incidentally, I have a concrete block cabin in the Ozarks. I used concrete block because it is cheap and fire resistant. It is comfortable in the Summer but it can be cold during the Winter. Takes a lot of propane to make it livable during hunting season. OK for deer camp but I would not want to live in it year round. Your climate should be more accomodating.

5. 
   PRP | Aug 17, 1999 07:43pm | #7

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   Mike:

   The reason so many buildings, and homes, have been built w/ CMU's is that it provides a durable surface to both interior and exterior in a single wythe of masonry and it can be load bearing. Problem is, you have to like the look if it is exposed because there is not much more you can do w/ it exposed other than paint it.

   I've had some experience w/ this type of masonry home, including the knowledge gained from a good friend who lived in one built by a german immigrant, and mason, in the 40's. Quality of construction and detailing has everything to do w/ the quality of life one can live inside.

   First, check for structural problems. Second, how well is the house detailed w/ masonry? Thirdly, how is the lot it is located on? All these have something to do w/ how the home will perform.

   Check for structural problems that may have occured. Are there any large gaps in the masonry that would run down at a roughly 45 degree angle, esp. at corners, that have been repaired? And if you don't see any, then ask! Ask how they've been repaired, patch or rebuilt? If they've been patched then you won't be able to hide it. Rebuilding is more expensive but shows that they cared to do it right. Look for impacts on walls that have not been repaired, like around the garage if it is an attached garage. Oh, and many of the homes of this type around here are low slope roofs so have the roof inspected. These roofs can be a different kind of animal.

   Next, look for detailing concerns. How does a block turn the corner or end at a window. If it expresses little concern for this, like w/ no detail, then begin to look closer at other locations. I've seen homes where they've actually had hollow core blocks (exposed) at the termination point near the windows. This is ugly and I think indicates little foresight in design which may mean more "leftovers" elsewhere.

   If you are concerned w/ cooling in your climate you probably won't get too much cooperation from this type of construction. Very few of these homes around here have insulated cores and insulating cores once built is really imposible. You could add insulation to the exterior or interior but to be done correctly is expensive. That is why it is important that the lot be shaded and that there isn't a problem w/ water or mold. Many of the homes around here that are built this way have a courtyard enclosed by a masonry wall/(fence). If you see peeling paint on the wall, not the house, then you have an idea of what moisture damage will look like in the house, should there be any. Peeling paint is the tell-tale sign of moisture infiltration. You can expect moisture signs on the fence (from moisture coming in from the top of the wall) but, you should not see it in the house. If you do see it in the house it is most likely a roof problem or another problem in the attic.

   I should tell ya though, my friend w/ this style house is extremely happy with his home. If you want to be safe, get a good home inspector to walk thru w/ you for some flat fee. OK & happy hunting.

6. 
   Guest_ | Aug 17, 1999 08:52pm | #8

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   Given, that I could start over, I would build my house out of concrete masonry. It is by no means an inferior product. The tade-off of mass and insulation makes 8" masonry almost a push. Thermal performance can better be improved by improving the weather seal than trying to insulate the walls. Wiring was often done in conduit and can be easily updated.

   That being said, I would be wary of block construction of that vintage in Calif. Today virtually all masonry construction is strongly reinforced both horizontally and vertically and is grouted solid. Structural retrofits of masonry construction can be difficult.

7. 
   CA_Medic | Aug 18, 1999 09:48am | #9

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   Thanks for all the great comments. One big question though: How easy/expensive is it to stucco the outside, and will the stucco hold up? The house is painted white, but the block-look is, well, pretty unappealing.
   Thanks again,
   Mike

1. 
   CA_Medic | Aug 18, 1999 09:50am | #10

   *Thanks for all the great comments. One big question though: How easy/expensive is it to stucco the outside, and will the stucco hold up? The house is painted white, but the block-look is, well, pretty unappealing.Thanks again, Mike

8. 
   CA_Medic | Aug 18, 1999 08:22pm | #11

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   I am looking at buying a cinder block home, but know next to nothing about this kind of construction...

9. 
   Guest_ | Aug 18, 1999 08:22pm | #12

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   Stuccoing the outside should not be too expensive. This is two coat work. If the house has been painted many times it will probably need to be removed before the brown coat. If there are alot of stucco houses in your area there will be companies specializing in Sand or Water blasting and restuccoing. The stucco will last longer than you or I will.