I’ve got to make two wire runs. One to a 240V septic pump, the other to the pump alarm. I’m using 12/2 UF for both. I want to go through the band, at the house, rather than through the block foundation.
I was planning on using 1 1/2″ conduit to an LB conduit (a right angle box w/ a removable weather proof cover), then sleeve through the band.
The 12/2 UF is pretty stiff, and I’ve got to pull about 30′ through. Can I use the LB conduit as a junction box, cut the wire & wirenut, or does it have to run through in one piece? Is 1 1/2″ conduit big enough?
Thanks from the Ol’ Poop Pumper
I went down to the lobby To make a small call out. A pretty dancing girl was there, And she began to shout, “Go on back to see the gypsy. He can move you from the rear, Drive you from your fear, Bring you through the mirror. He did it in Las Vegas, And he can do it here.”
Replies
It can be trying ... when someone insists on doing things wrong, then runs into difficulties!
1/2 Conduit is too small for any size UF. You'd have to increase your size to at least 1" to be code compliant. As you've notices, running UF in conduit isn't easy.
While there are, in theory, circumsatnces where you can splice in a conduit body, you again would need at least a 1" body to have the necessary room.
Running ANY sort of cable to a septic pump is a bad idea. This is simply because, sooner or later, you WILL have to replace the cable. Do you really want to dig it up all over?
The best way to do this is to use another wiring method - perhaps romex - inside the house, coming into a suitably large box or pull can on the outside of the house. From the box, run PVC pipe - again, at least 3/4", preferably 1" - to a "handhole" placed in the ground next to where the wires enter the tank. In the handhole, you will splice to the pump cables, using waterproof connections.
The connection between the handhole and the tank must be as short and straight as possible, and be at least 1". This is because cables swell over time, and you'll have trouble pulling them out of a smaller pipe.
I think he mean 1-1/2" as opposed to one 1/2" ...
Nate
Buried cable is the way it works here... and it's run and buried.So, is 1 1/2" (one and one half inch) conduit sufficient? And was that a yes on the 1 1/2" (one and one half inch)
LB conduit as a junction box?Sorry for being so trying<G>http://www.tvwsolar.com
I went down to the lobby
To make a small call out.
A pretty dancing girl was there,
And she began to shout,
"Go on back to see the gypsy.
He can move you from the rear,
Drive you from your fear,
Bring you through the mirror.
He did it in Las Vegas,
And he can do it here."
To clarify are you trying to do the whole run in conduit?Or are you only talking about a couple of feet to get out of house down below the ground?.
William the Geezer, the sequel to Billy the Kid - Shoe
Bill, just out of the house and under the ground.Through the band into the LB conduit, 90° turn down 4' (four feet)along foundation, to a 45° elbow under ground.http://www.tvwsolar.com
I went down to the lobby
To make a small call out.
A pretty dancing girl was there,
And she began to shout,
"Go on back to see the gypsy.
He can move you from the rear,
Drive you from your fear,
Bring you through the mirror.
He did it in Las Vegas,
And he can do it here."
In that case you don't need to worry about the 360 rule. That is for pulling wire in the conduit. It is that between pull points (and a conduit body would be a pull point) that you can have fitting that total more that 360 degree changes in direction. With somethign like this you would use a 90 on the bottom to leave it exiting in the direction that the cable will travel to the pump.Most likely you have a long run under ground, but only a short one inside the house.So fee the cable from the elbow up to the conduit body. Then into the house. If you are reasonable close to the panel then just continue the UF. If it is a distance then you can have a j-box and transistion to NM.Or instead of a conduit body you can use a j-box and splice there. You can get the Carlon gray boxes with connections in several places and you can get plain box that you drill a hole and glue in a nipple that you then connect the conduit to..
William the Geezer, the sequel to Billy the Kid - Shoe
60' from the foundation to the pump. 20' from the foundation entry to the sub panel.http://www.tvwsolar.com
I went down to the lobby
To make a small call out.
A pretty dancing girl was there,
And she began to shout,
"Go on back to see the gypsy.
He can move you from the rear,
Drive you from your fear,
Bring you through the mirror.
He did it in Las Vegas,
And he can do it here."
Yes, those larger pieces give you a chance of working with the UF.
Just think of me in a few years, when you have to dig it all up again.
I'll put you on my list of I told you so thank you cards.http://www.tvwsolar.com
I went down to the lobby
To make a small call out.
A pretty dancing girl was there,
And she began to shout,
"Go on back to see the gypsy.
He can move you from the rear,
Drive you from your fear,
Bring you through the mirror.
He did it in Las Vegas,
And he can do it here."
1-1/2" conduit is plenty big for two runs of 12-2 UF.
Keep in mind maximum 360 degree bending total in one pipe run - fewer bends = easier wire pulling.
Don't think you can use an LB conduit body as a junction box - but you could junction just inside the band joist in another box connected to the LB via a short run of conduit.
Jim
When you say:"Keep in mind maximum 360 degree bending total in one pipe run"Is that total for both wires, or one?http://www.tvwsolar.com
I went down to the lobby
To make a small call out.
A pretty dancing girl was there,
And she began to shout,
"Go on back to see the gypsy.
He can move you from the rear,
Drive you from your fear,
Bring you through the mirror.
He did it in Las Vegas,
And he can do it here."
The conduit run itself is only permitted by code to have a total of 360 degrees of bend between "pull points". Four 90 degree bends = 360 degrees.
A pull point is a place where you have permanent access to the wire inside of the conduit - generally a junction box or a conduit body such as your LB style - removing the cover provides access to the wire inside.
The number of actual wires contained inside of the conduit does not make any difference.
Jim
Edit: OOps -- It appears this has already been explained by Bill Hartmann.
Never underestimate the value of a sharp pencil or good light.
Edited 1/11/2009 2:11 pm ET by JTC1
The way i've run any wire though a " conduit to an LB conduit (a right angle box w/ a removable weather proof cover) " is to run it so there is a big loop coming out of it.
Then at the end pull the loop into the " LB conduit".
Getting the last bit of the loop in is hard but it is only the last bit. You really need two people for the last bit.
I've seen LBs that have a "harp" built in, so the cable doesn't have to make a tight bend.
God is REAL, unless explicitly declared INTEGER
I have one here at the house. Good design.
That last bit is what I was concerned about<G>http://www.tvwsolar.com
I went down to the lobby
To make a small call out.
A pretty dancing girl was there,
And she began to shout,
"Go on back to see the gypsy.
He can move you from the rear,
Drive you from your fear,
Bring you through the mirror.
He did it in Las Vegas,
And he can do it here."
Instead of an LB, why not use an outdoor electrical box with a blank cover? You can make splices in those.
Can I get one with an 1 1/2" conduit fitting on the bottom and back? May just be showing Ms 'Snort how to pull wire.http://www.tvwsolar.com
I went down to the lobby
To make a small call out.
A pretty dancing girl was there,
And she began to shout,
"Go on back to see the gypsy.
He can move you from the rear,
Drive you from your fear,
Bring you through the mirror.
He did it in Las Vegas,
And he can do it here."
plastic boxes do not have KOs in them you will have to use a 1-7/8 " holesaw for your conduit. and while you're at it, drill a couple 1/4" drain holes if you go that route.BUT, the cu.in. capacity of an LB should be marked inside the body and as long as you don't exceed that with with all the splices you're going to make, you may splice in it.
and just to be even more helpful, your two cables will become 12 wires for calculating fill...
and the multiplier for #12 is 2.25,
so 12wires X 2.25 = 27 cu. in. but I would use #14 for the alarm so that there is NO confusion later when the splices get made up or repairs have to be madeso keep the pump on #12 and jam some duct seal in the conduit ends to help keep condensation out of the splices in either the box or LB.
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Edited 1/11/2009 11:45 am by maddog3
I am not use to working with that large size. So I never think about conduit bodies for splices. Certainly no run in 1/2 and 3/4"..
William the Geezer, the sequel to Billy the Kid - Shoe
not a big fan of splices in condulets myself since it seems that is where the problem is when something loses power and the but sometimes there is no other way ...
wiring up ASCO solenoids comes to mind where the pigtails come right out of the molded coil there should be plenty room in that big LB though.
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I found fill volume charts at Carlon and their 1-1/4" and 1-1/2" bodies arei 32 cu. in.http://www.carlon.com/Master%20Catalog/Conduit_Bodies_Brochure.pdf
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I would have have suspected that they where near that big..
William the Geezer, the sequel to Billy the Kid - Shoe
That's what I needed, thanks. I understand your point on 14/2 for the alarm... it was less expensive to run them both in 12/2 out of one roll.I will make sure they're clearly marked!http://www.tvwsolar.com
I went down to the lobby
To make a small call out.
A pretty dancing girl was there,
And she began to shout,
"Go on back to see the gypsy.
He can move you from the rear,
Drive you from your fear,
Bring you through the mirror.
He did it in Las Vegas,
And he can do it here."
don't forget to plug the pipes nothing screws up connections better than condensation since we all forget about them after the covers go on.
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Good point! Now where do I get electrician's putty?http://www.tvwsolar.com
I went down to the lobby
To make a small call out.
A pretty dancing girl was there,
And she began to shout,
"Go on back to see the gypsy.
He can move you from the rear,
Drive you from your fear,
Bring you through the mirror.
He did it in Las Vegas,
And he can do it here."
a supply house would have it or even online about $4 ..... we call it duct seal or duct putty if you're from back East.
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The home horror stores and hardware stores have it.It is gray 'brick' wrapped in clear plastic.At Lowes look on the bottom shelves around the wire nuts..
William the Geezer, the sequel to Billy the Kid - Shoe
They probably keep it next to the duck tape, here!http://www.tvwsolar.com
I went down to the lobby
To make a small call out.
A pretty dancing girl was there,
And she began to shout,
"Go on back to see the gypsy.
He can move you from the rear,
Drive you from your fear,
Bring you through the mirror.
He did it in Las Vegas,
And he can do it here."
you install PVAs and what is the font in your logo ?it's quite handsome !.
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Edited 1/11/2009 4:49 pm by maddog3
I have 'em installed while I watch from the ground... and the font is Willow, might be on your pooter if you can see it.http://www.tvwsolar.com
I went down to the lobby
To make a small call out.
A pretty dancing girl was there,
And she began to shout,
"Go on back to see the gypsy.
He can move you from the rear,
Drive you from your fear,
Bring you through the mirror.
He did it in Las Vegas,
And he can do it here."
I see,
you have a nice looking siteand I don't see the style of willow you have.
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Edited 1/11/2009 6:56 pm by maddog3
I got it here:http://www.urbanfonts.com/fontsearch.phpand twas freehttp://www.tvwsolar.com
I went down to the lobby
To make a small call out.
A pretty dancing girl was there,
And she began to shout,
"Go on back to see the gypsy.
He can move you from the rear,
Drive you from your fear,
Bring you through the mirror.
He did it in Las Vegas,
And he can do it here."
Thank You, I got it now.
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"might be on your pooter if you can see it."Nope. Because it is not text.IT was made into an image allow with "sun".http://www.tvwsolar.com/The_Village_Woodworks,_Inc./Welcome_files/TVW%20Logo%20Cropped.jpg.
William the Geezer, the sequel to Billy the Kid - Shoe
Bill, ahh, forgot about the logo, yeah it's a jpeg... do you see that same font in the header at the top of the page?http://www.tvwsolar.com
I went down to the lobby
To make a small call out.
A pretty dancing girl was there,
And she began to shout,
"Go on back to see the gypsy.
He can move you from the rear,
Drive you from your fear,
Bring you through the mirror.
He did it in Las Vegas,
And he can do it here."
No. I am not sure if you are talking about the Buttons or "The Village Woodworks, Inc. Fine Homebuilders" But allof them are in a simple snas-serif as is the rest of the textAnd this appears to be the only font selection on the page.{ntfont-family: Futura, 'Trebuchet MS', sans-serif;.
William the Geezer, the sequel to Billy the Kid - Shoe
Yep, futura is what shows if you don't have willow in the font book.http://www.tvwsolar.com
I went down to the lobby
To make a small call out.
A pretty dancing girl was there,
And she began to shout,
"Go on back to see the gypsy.
He can move you from the rear,
Drive you from your fear,
Bring you through the mirror.
He did it in Las Vegas,
And he can do it here."
Decent HVAC house should havew this:
http://www.drillspot.com/tag/permagum-sealing-gum/For those who have fought for it Freedom has a flavor the protected will never know.
Someone would be chewing that stuff!http://www.tvwsolar.com
I went down to the lobby
To make a small call out.
A pretty dancing girl was there,
And she began to shout,
"Go on back to see the gypsy.
He can move you from the rear,
Drive you from your fear,
Bring you through the mirror.
He did it in Las Vegas,
And he can do it here."
LOL. My local True Value has the cord type rope caulk that looks pretty similar. I have not compared the ingredients/texture but it and the flat type caulk roll with the wax paper seperator look the same also. Can't see why any of the three would not work.
One thing those who were worried about condensation did not mention was using the wet area wire nuts with the goop in them.
Bob (not an electrician, and did not stay at the Holiday Inn Express)
For those who have fought for it Freedom has a flavor the protected will never know.
Edited 1/11/2009 8:25 pm ET by rasconc
More sage advice... dang, with all this stuff, who needs conduit?http://www.tvwsolar.com
I went down to the lobby
To make a small call out.
A pretty dancing girl was there,
And she began to shout,
"Go on back to see the gypsy.
He can move you from the rear,
Drive you from your fear,
Bring you through the mirror.
He did it in Las Vegas,
And he can do it here."
that was easy I really have no idea what those places carry in the way of material .
I just order it and it"s on the job the next day unless I get it from a stores crib on the job.
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