FHB Logo Facebook LinkedIn Email Pinterest Twitter X Instagram Tiktok YouTube Plus Icon Close Icon Navigation Search Icon Navigation Search Icon Arrow Down Icon Video Guide Icon Article Guide Icon Modal Close Icon Guide Search Icon Skip to content
Subscribe
Log In
  • How-To
  • Design
  • Tools & Materials
  • Restoration
  • Videos
  • Blogs
  • Forum
  • Magazine
  • Members
  • FHB House
  • Podcast
Log In

Discussion Forum

Discussion Forum

Consequence of not-to-code

Gene_Davis | Posted in General Discussion on May 18, 2009 02:14am

You want to sell your house.

Let’s presume that the same code is in effect now as regards this, as was in effect at the time the place got built.  Let’s say that build happened ten years ago, just for info.

A lot of the windows in the house, were supposed to be glazed with tempered glass.  No ambiguities here, it’s real clear.

The buyer, being prudent about the offer and the contract, has hired a professional house inspector, and the inspector sees no temper blazes on the lites.  She asks you about this, your response is unsatisfactory in that you cannot prove the windows have tempered glass, and she points out the fault in the inspection report.

What are you going to do?

Ever heard of this happening?

 

View Image

“A stripe is just as real as a dadgummed flower.”

Gene Davis        1920-1985

Reply

Replies

  1. MikeSmith | May 18, 2009 02:25am | #1

    well, you're the window expert....so you know the answer.... why don't you enlighten us zen-master ?

    Mike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
    1. rez | May 18, 2009 07:20pm | #22

      Congratulations!

      MikeSmith receives the TimMooney 'Now That's Funny Right There' Award.

      Saaalute!View Image 

      View Image  

  2. User avater
    BillHartmann | May 18, 2009 02:25am | #2

    It really doesn't matter what the code is or was at the time.

    And a lot of time it might not be easy to determine exactly what code requirements where, if any at the time. And also for an older home when the work was done.

    The inspector can report that the location does not have safety glass and current practice is to have it in that application. And they that buyer to be aware of the safety issue.

    That is done all the time, for example lack of GFCI's is 50 yo homes.

    Then it is up to the buyer and seller to see how signficant that this issues is, how much it would cost to fix, and if either side wants to pay for it or if this is a deal breaker.

    Probably a better example. Say a say a high deck with just a top rail and one about 1/2 way down. The inspector would probably call this out.

    Then the buyer might say that hey were are older and don't have kids/grand kids and don't have drunken parties so we are not going to worry about this and look at other things.

    Another might have 5 kids from 1 to 6 and feel that this is an important issue. And the seller might find that the way that the deck made, the size, and the height that it might cost $10,000 to fix right and say that they will wait for a childless buyer.

    .
    William the Geezer, the sequel to Billy the Kid - Shoe
    1. DanH | May 18, 2009 06:22am | #13

      Of course, a big part of this is a (all too common) scam. A price is agreed, "pending inspection". The inspector finds stuff that, if one were honest, is "normal wear and tear"/to be expected in a house of that vintage. The would-be purchaser then uses this to arm-twist a price reduction.
      The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness. -John Kenneth Galbraith

  3. Grampie | May 18, 2009 02:30am | #3

    I have had similar situations for some of my customers. You can reject the inspectors comment based on the fact that the windows were never replaced and were to code when the structure was built. If you were to take any other position, what would you say of a 100 year old house?
    the worse case is a realtor from hell who knows it all.

  4. davidmeiland | May 18, 2009 03:08am | #4

    It doesn't matter until the buyer or the lender says something. I inspect houses sometimes for potential buyers and point out all sorts of problems. In a seller's market they go uncorrected, in a buyer's market the buyer may counter by saying that the windows need to be tempered before the inspection contingency is removed. The seller can then solicit prices for replacing the windows and decide whether or not they want to do it. They may counter that they will credit the buyer $X to deal with the windows after closing.

    A couple of weeks ago I inspected a building with a couple of significant problems, and the buyer is using the info to get the seller to lower the price.

    1. fingersandtoes | May 18, 2009 03:23am | #7

      I wonder how may of the projects we have all built meet current codes? I know only a couple of mine have even a remote chance since they brought in rainscreen requirements.

      1. sledgehammer | May 18, 2009 03:40am | #9

        I have made many doors and windows with tempered glass that had no logo's per the clients request.

        I know how they got it approved and it's ashame you don't.

         

         

  5. danusan10 | May 18, 2009 03:09am | #5

    Take a BFH and bust the window see what the glass does, if it shatters in shards its not tempered.  Okay now bust everyone in question just to be sure. 

  6. Dave45 | May 18, 2009 03:20am | #6

    You seem to be asking if an inspector can call a code compliance issue based on a ??? year old code. I suppose that they can, but for it to truely be a code compliance issue, he would need to show that it actually violated code back then. Otherwise, he's just pointing out that it doesn't meet current code.

    I do quite a bit of "fix-it" stuff for realtors based on property inspections and often have to 'splain that a 50's era house didn't require grounded plugs, or GFCI's.

  7. ponytl | May 18, 2009 03:39am | #8

    man the real fix is.... get some of that spray on etched glass frosting stuff... make a little stencil and spray you a little sign thing in the corner of each one...  won't mean a thing but i bet...

    no one would look close enough to know that you just happen to like the look of small frosted areas in the corner of your windows...

    p

    1. john7g | May 18, 2009 03:58am | #10

      mkae th stencil say "ponytail says thy're etched glass" and I bet no one ever reads it. 

      ;^)

    2. User avater
      PeteDraganic | May 18, 2009 04:01pm | #20

      That is absolutely hilarious. That's why you are the man.

      <!----><!----><!----> 

      I refuse to accept that there are limitations to what we can accomplish.        Pete Draganic

       

      Take life as a test and shoot for a better score each day.          Matt Garcia

  8. atrident | May 18, 2009 05:35am | #11

    I think you can use some 3M burgler proof stick on that will meet breakage requirements. Its not cheap,but hey, safe and burgler proof. Oops , I mean Burgler resistant.

  9. semar | May 18, 2009 06:15am | #12

    A home inspector's report is just that - a report
    If the homeowner insists on the latest code requirement he should buy a brandnew home from a developer
    The market -- seller's or buyer's - often decides the deal. It comes down to compromises in any case.

  10. User avater
    Nuke | May 18, 2009 02:24pm | #14

    Gene, which is worse in the eyes of your county: Not being up to code, or not being permitted in the first place.

    I think my state would be more concerned with the codes, but I know my county only cares about missed tax assessments where they didn't get the opportunity to bend you over.

    BTW, I've done everything to code (actually, in excess of it in cases where I could), but did not permit it. I see no sense in paying the county, and its over-valuation system, an extra +$1,200 per year. Not in this economy.

    1. dude | May 18, 2009 02:42pm | #15

      The inspection is a way for the agent to cover the brokers #### in case a buyer wants to come back on them for ommissions on the home discription

      By the same token the buyer still thinks he can sue the inspector for any omissions on his report

      Been in court on one of those which took 2 days and home owner lost and he was stuped enough to produce a home inspection report that the home insperctor did not do inspections on ground source furnaces but home owner felt previous owner had misled him ( she came up from georgia to ontario to defend herself )

      Home inspections are just one persons viewpoint as to the condition of a property

      buyers often think anything pointed out will be corrected at the venders expense , and where they get that idea from i dont know  other than some buyers think their the world's greatest hagglers !

    2. User avater
      jonblakemore | May 18, 2009 07:28pm | #23

      To be a devil's advocate, how is shirking your portion of the tax burden any different from the welfare queens who know just how to scam the system with fake social security numbers or the billionaire investor who finds an illegal but effective way to hide assets? 

      Jon Blakemore RappahannockINC.com Fredericksburg, VA

      1. User avater
        Nuke | May 18, 2009 11:55pm | #26

        I do not see a difference. And I am not advocating what they do wrong either.

  11. Henley | May 18, 2009 02:49pm | #16

    I can't imagine any of the inspectors around here
    catching that!

    They are usually recommended by the Realtor and wouldn't want to
    blow a sale over a silly safety issue.

    1. mikeroop | May 18, 2009 03:19pm | #17

      Just for those who don't know, Gene lives in the WHAT IF world. never really any real reason for his questions just lets say!

      1. User avater
        Gene_Davis | May 18, 2009 03:31pm | #18

        I sold a spec house in '06, to a buyer that was very hardnosed.  The inspector she hired was totally up on the building code and tempered glass.  I had done tempered glass everywhere the code required, and he carefully noted all the temper blazes.

        I am certain, because of the way things went down with that sale, that I would have had a big problem had glass not been tempered.  The house happened to have been new.

        We don't get inspected here by the AHJ, nor does the AHJ check plans to any degree.  All they look at is building size and height, size so they can charge as much as possible for the permit, and height so that they won't OK a house too tall.  They don't want to be involved in any lawsuits about height, which is a touchy thing here.

        I am doing the plans now for a client who will self-build, and the project is full of glass which should be tempered.  My drawings will call out the windows, where required, as requiring tempered glass, and I know he will buy them without, so as to save money.

        So, yeah, it's a what-if Q, but it's not just a hypothetical one. 

        View Image

        "A stripe is just as real as a dadgummed flower."

        Gene Davis        1920-1985

        1. User avater
          BillHartmann | May 18, 2009 03:34pm | #19

          You say that there is no inspections. But is there a building code that has been officially adopted by the city, county, or state legislation that covers your area?If not there is no "code"..
          William the Geezer, the sequel to Billy the Kid - Shoe

          1. frammer52 | May 18, 2009 05:40pm | #21

            But is there a building code that has been officially adopted by the city, county, or state legislation that covers your area>>>>>>>>>>>..

            We have a state code that is supposed to cover all of NY.  In practise where he lives and in some yowns where I live, the BI are parttime at best and don't know what they are doing.

            It can be a crapshoot in parts of NY.

        2. FastEddie | May 18, 2009 07:32pm | #24

          the project is full of glass which should be tempered

          Actually, it needs to be safety glass, which could be achieved by laminated glass, and sometimes by the application of a surface film."Put your creed in your deed."   Emerson

          "When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it."  T. Roosevelt

  12. migraine | May 18, 2009 07:48pm | #25

    the buyer beware....

    no, not really

    I've worked on things the don't meet current codes.  but they were at one time.  Doesn't mean that I'm going to change everything I do to current code.

    But, I will disclose everything that I'm aware of in escrow.  Been there, done that.

    If the building department nails me for building without a permit, I'll pull the required permit and bring up what ever they require to the current codes.  Been there done that, too, as in a 1975 sqft shop.

    As for you door w/o bugs on the glass, I've recently replaced a broken pane w/o tempered.  All of the other 9 weren't, why would I spend the money?(really just time and hassle) on just one of the panes?

    As for reason of why not pulling permits,  That is another issue that usually deals with gov't B.S. and additional taxes levied on the home for the rest of our ownership.

    As for the home inspector, that "can" be a joke in itself.  I'm not trying to change this thread by that statement.  It's just I've see too many reports that were not even close to disclosing all deficiencies

     



    Edited 5/18/2009 12:53 pm by migraine

Log in or create an account to post a comment.

Sign up Log in

Become a member and get full access to FineHomebuilding.com

Video Shorts

Categories

  • Business
  • Code Questions
  • Construction Techniques
  • Energy, Heating & Insulation
  • General Discussion
  • Help/Work Wanted
  • Photo Gallery
  • Reader Classified
  • Tools for Home Building

Discussion Forum

Recent Posts and Replies

  • |
  • |
  • |
  • |
  • |
  • |
View More Create Post

Up Next

Video Shorts

Featured Story

Mortar for Old Masonry

Old masonry may look tough, but the wrong mortar can destroy it—here's how to choose the right mix for lasting repairs.

Featured Video

A Modern California Home Wrapped in Rockwool Insulation for Energy Efficiency and Fire Resistance

The designer and builder of the 2018 Fine Homebuilding House detail why they chose mineral-wool batts and high-density boards for all of their insulation needs.

Related Stories

  • Podcast Episode 690: Sharpening, Wires Behind Baseboard, and Fixing Shingle Panels
  • FHB Podcast Segment: Hand Tool Sharpening Tips
  • Old House Air-Sealing Basics
  • A Drip-Free, Through-Window Heat Pump

Highlights

Fine Homebuilding All Access
Fine Homebuilding Podcast
Tool Tech
Plus, get an extra 20% off with code GIFT20

"I have learned so much thanks to the searchable articles on the FHB website. I can confidently say that I expect to be a life-long subscriber." - M.K.

Get home building tips, offers, and expert advice in your inbox

Signing you up...

This site is protected by reCAPTCHA and the Google Privacy Policy and Terms of Service apply.
See all newsletters
See all newsletters

Fine Homebuilding Magazine

  • Issue 332 - July 2025
    • Custom Built-ins With Job-Site Tools
    • Fight House Fires Through Design
    • Making the Move to Multifamily
  • Issue 331 - June 2025
    • A More Resilient Roof
    • Tool Test: You Need a Drywall Sander
    • Ducted vs. Ductless Heat Pumps
  • Issue 330 - April/May 2025
    • Deck Details for Durability
    • FAQs on HPWHs
    • 10 Tips for a Long-Lasting Paint Job
  • Old House Journal – August 2025
    • Designing the Perfect Garden Gate
    • Old House Air-Sealing Basics
  • Issue 329 - Feb/Mar 2025
    • Smart Foundation for a Small Addition
    • A Kominka Comes West
    • Making Small Kitchens Work

Fine Home Building

Newsletter Sign-up

  • Fine Homebuilding

    Home building tips, offers, and expert advice in your inbox.

  • Green Building Advisor

    Building science and energy efficiency advice, plus special offers, in your inbox.

  • Old House Journal

    Repair, renovation, and restoration tips, plus special offers, in your inbox.

Signing you up...

This site is protected by reCAPTCHA and the Google Privacy Policy and Terms of Service apply.
See all newsletters

Follow

  • Fine Homebuilding

    Dig into cutting-edge approaches and decades of proven solutions with total access to our experts and tradespeople.

    Start Free Trial Now
    • Facebook
    • Instagram
    • X
    • LinkedIn
  • GBA Prime

    Get instant access to the latest developments in green building, research, and reports from the field.

    Start Free Trial Now
    • Facebook
    • YouTube
  • Old House Journal

    Learn how to restore, repair, update, and decorate your home.

    Subscribe Now
    • Facebook
    • Instagram
    • X
  • Fine Homebuilding

    Dig into cutting-edge approaches and decades of proven solutions with total access to our experts and tradespeople.

    Start Free Trial Now
    • Facebook
    • Instagram
    • X
    • LinkedIn
  • GBA Prime

    Get instant access to the latest developments in green building, research, and reports from the field.

    Start Free Trial Now
    • Facebook
    • YouTube
  • Old House Journal

    Learn how to restore, repair, update, and decorate your home.

    Subscribe Now
    • Facebook
    • Instagram
    • X

Membership & Magazine

  • Online Archive
  • Start Free Trial
  • Magazine Subscription
  • Magazine Renewal
  • Gift a Subscription
  • Customer Support
  • Privacy Preferences
  • About
  • Contact
  • Advertise
  • Careers
  • Terms of Use
  • Site Map
  • Do not sell or share my information
  • Privacy Policy
  • Accessibility
  • California Privacy Rights

© 2025 Active Interest Media. All rights reserved.

Fine Homebuilding receives a commission for items purchased through links on this site, including Amazon Associates and other affiliate advertising programs.

X
X
This is a dialog window which overlays the main content of the page. The modal window is a 'site map' of the most critical areas of the site. Pressing the Escape (ESC) button will close the modal and bring you back to where you were on the page.

Main Menu

  • How-To
  • Design
  • Tools & Materials
  • Video
  • Blogs
  • Forum
  • Project Guides
  • Reader Projects
  • Magazine
  • Members
  • FHB House

Podcasts

  • FHB Podcast
  • ProTalk

Webinars

  • Upcoming and On-Demand

Podcasts

  • FHB Podcast
  • ProTalk

Webinars

  • Upcoming and On-Demand

Popular Topics

  • Kitchens
  • Business
  • Bedrooms
  • Roofs
  • Architecture and Design
  • Green Building
  • Decks
  • Framing
  • Safety
  • Remodeling
  • Bathrooms
  • Windows
  • Tilework
  • Ceilings
  • HVAC

Magazine

  • Current Issue
  • Past Issues
  • Magazine Index
  • Subscribe
  • Online Archive
  • Author Guidelines

All Access

  • Member Home
  • Start Free Trial
  • Gift Membership

Online Learning

  • Courses
  • Project Guides
  • Reader Projects
  • Podcast

More

  • FHB Ambassadors
  • FHB House
  • Customer Support

Account

  • Log In
  • Join

Newsletter

Get home building tips, offers, and expert advice in your inbox

Signing you up...

This site is protected by reCAPTCHA and the Google Privacy Policy and Terms of Service apply.
See all newsletters
See all newsletters

Follow

  • X
  • YouTube
  • instagram
  • facebook
  • pinterest
  • Tiktok

Join All Access

Become a member and get instant access to thousands of videos, how-tos, tool reviews, and design features.

Start Your Free Trial

Subscribe

FHB Magazine

Start your subscription today and save up to 70%

Subscribe

We hope you’ve enjoyed your free articles. To keep reading, become a member today.

Get complete site access to expert advice, how-to videos, Code Check, and more, plus the print magazine.

Start your FREE trial

Already a member? Log in