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Discussion Forum

Contractor question–how to handle?

hurnik | Posted in General Discussion on July 23, 2006 12:37pm

I’m having a contractor put an addition onto my home. I live in NY, and as some of you may know, we’ve had LOTS of rain (5″ in May and a record breaker in June).

Anyway, due to all the rain, things are a bit behind. I can understand that.

However, apparently the payment schedule I signed off on says $6,000 for roofing.

But due to all the rain, the contractor can’t get the roofer (now that they’re ready for him) unless I want to wait another 3-4 weeks. Due to all the rain, virtually EVERY roofer is unavailable. The contractor can get one guy sooner (1-2 weeks) but it’s $2500 more.

Now, I’m not sure how to handle this. Do I say, “hey, you quoted $6,000 ” and make him eat the $2500? Or do I wait or what. I don’t want to be a jerk, but we keep getting lots more rain so I REALLY want a shingled roof and not have to wait a month (already had several rains before they got the underlayment on and it flooded the existing house–but that’s another discussion).

Advice please.

Reply

Replies

  1. dustinf | Jul 23, 2006 12:56am | #1

    It might be a jerk move, but I'd probably start calling roofers.  Just to see what you can find for a price, and timetable.

    It's a slippery slope you're stuck on, but $2500 is $2500.  More importantly a month is a month.  You can't really proceed inside until the roof is shingled. 

    How complex is the roof?  Is the contactor just contracting, or is he actually building the addition? 

     

    In the time of chimpanzees I was a monkey.

  2. davidmeiland | Jul 23, 2006 12:59am | #2

    Why don't they just felt the roof and wait until the roofer can get there? I know it's not perfectly watertight (water will drip thru a bit as it goes thru the staple holes) but there's no need to stand on one foot waiting for a roofer. In general, we put the felt on roofs that we build, and then the roofer puts the roofing material on. If it's summer I might wait and let the roofer do the felt too but usually not.

    1. dustinf | Jul 23, 2006 01:01am | #3

      Would you drywall with the roof only papered in?In the time of chimpanzees I was a monkey.

      1. davidmeiland | Jul 23, 2006 01:03am | #4

        Of course not. I also wouldn't pay a $2500 premium on a $6000 roof to speed it up.

        1. dustinf | Jul 23, 2006 01:11am | #11

          I agree that $2500 is ridiculous.  A month is a long time to wait it out.  Especially in New York with winter not that far away. 

          This stinks of an underbid, and an opportunity to make back some money.In the time of chimpanzees I was a monkey.

          1. User avater
            dieselpig | Jul 23, 2006 01:17am | #14

            A $2500 swing on a roof potentially worth $6000 isn't that outrageous where I'm at.  There's a reason why the $2500+ guy is available... maybe becauses he's so damm expensive?  Or maybe because he's a huge outfit who is capable of showing up at the drop of a hat when the call comes in.  I dunno. 

            What I do know is that I have my regular crew of four roofers doing a job for me this weekend at $85 a sq.  Same job was quoted by another company (for the GC) at $200 a square.  One crew (the guys I  use) is small time, like me.  It's just him, his three guys, and a truck.  The $200/sq guy is a huge outfit with 20 or 30 gorgeous trucks, their own dumpsters, Laddervators, etc.View Image

          2. davidmeiland | Jul 23, 2006 01:19am | #16

            >>The $200/sq guy is a huge outfit with 20 or 30 gorgeous trucks, their own dumpsters, Laddervators, etc.

            Don't forget the owner's beach house with the float plane dock.

          3. User avater
            dieselpig | Jul 23, 2006 01:23am | #19

            In all seriousness.... that too.  Why not?  Only point is that I don't think roof estimates coming in between $6000 and $8500 is all that absurd.  I'm not saying it's right... I'm just saying that I see stuff like that all the time.  And sometimes there's more to it than just the old legal/illegal or insured/uninsured argument. 

            If all the other roofers in the area are flat out for a month... well... someone who is available today SHOULD be charging a premium.  It's just good business.  Around here there's a big carpet company "Empire Direct" who will send a salesman out to your house tomorrow, and an installation crew out the very next day.  No BS.  You pay through the teeth, but they serve a purpose.View Image

          4. User avater
            Gene_Davis | Jul 23, 2006 04:14am | #27

            C'mon, Brian.  $2,500 will buy all the RoofTopGuard that Mike Smith will use for the next full year, both furnished and installed.

            Fly low over the Gulf Coast and look down at the blue tarps that have been keeping the drywall dry for many many months since the big windy wet disaster.

            Let's admit that the poor guy is being taken advantage of.  Have you seen the housing start figures for New York state lately?  How about the inventory of existing homes on the market as compared to say, twelve months ago.  I could get a roofer by snapping my fingers.

          5. ANDYSZ2 | Jul 23, 2006 04:30am | #28

            Not if it has been raining for a month straight and everybody is getting their leaky roofs fixed at a premium price.Supply and demand dictate roofers bids as much as square footage,

            ANDYSZ2I MAY DISAGREE WITH WHAT YOUR SAYING BUT I WILL DEFEND TO THE DEATH YOUR RIGHT TO SAY IT.

            Remodeler/Punchout

          6. User avater
            dieselpig | Jul 23, 2006 05:29am | #30

            Thank you.View Image

          7. User avater
            dieselpig | Jul 23, 2006 05:29am | #29

            So snap your fingers and get him a roofer hot shot.... since you seem to have the crystal ball and all.View Image

          8. Piffin | Jul 23, 2006 04:51pm | #40

            the OP clearly stated that all the roofers around are way behind and tied up tight. How is he being taken advantage of? He is being given a choice, just like you give your wife a choice - cook at home tonight or go out to eat, right? 

             

            Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!

          9. User avater
            Huck | Jul 23, 2006 07:33pm | #52

            "How is he being taken advantage of? He is being given a choice"

            That's my read on it too.  When demand is down, prices are forced down.  When demand is up, it should be expected that prices will rise accordingly.   "he...never charged nothing for his preaching, and it was worth it, too" - Mark Twain

          10. Piffin | Jul 23, 2006 07:58pm | #54

            I roofed in CO for about 12 years or so.Every year in about Sept or Oct when thge snow hit the uppewr elevations, my price went up. That is when the phone started ringing with panic stricken DIYs and HOs who couldn't plan ahead! 

             

            Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!

          11. dustinf | Jul 23, 2006 01:22am | #18

            $2500 is a 41% mark up on the original $6000.  That's a lot.

            I'd like to know the size of the roof.In the time of chimpanzees I was a monkey.

          12. User avater
            dieselpig | Jul 23, 2006 01:25am | #20

             

            $2500 is a 41% mark up on the original $6000.  That's a lot.

            And I don't disagree with you either.  I'm only saying that it doesn't surprise me and that there could be a very good reason for it... see my other posts if you're curious.View Image

          13. hurnik | Jul 23, 2006 05:45am | #31

            Not sure how they measure "size" of a roof, but it's 16 squares. The $6,000 was including the shingles (timberline, 40 year architectural shingles), plus underlayment, Ice & water shield, etc.The original roofer did my roof on the "existing" house about 3 years ago. Apparently he quotes $200/square.Contractor is just "subbing" certain portions (roofing and the basement walls/foundation were done by Superior Walls).They have an underlayment of some sort on now, so it's not leaking (Titanium something or other). But the local building dept. will NOT sign off on the framing portion of the inspection until the house is totally sealed (meaning siding, windows/doors, AND roof), so I cannot insulate, do the electrical or anything on the interior until the framing is done).The new guy quoted $400/sq.I guess I can certainly call around, but I'm always a bit leery of just paging through the phone book just to "get a body". (Had a plumber that way and the quality sucked so I had to get another one and wait and pay more).The roof is a 12 on 12 pitch (gable ends on front and back), on left-hand side also has a shed dormer, but the right-hand and "front/back" portions on the right are "odd" (funky hip joint) due to it has to tie into the existing house.I thought about offering the original roofer an extra $1,000 to get him there early (like if he could "promise" having it done by next week). One other roofing company I called said to not even bother, they're so far behind and booked solid, I'd have to wait 2 months.

          14. User avater
            dieselpig | Jul 23, 2006 05:52am | #32

            Give Gene a call.... maybe he'll snap his fingers for you.  He's got it like that.View Image

          15. DougU | Jul 23, 2006 06:41pm | #47

            So Diesel, what your saying with all these digs to Gene is that your bid to do a roof for $6000 is only good if you decide it is, otherwise your going to up it by 40% just because things got busy?

            Just currious

            I know that if I give a fair bid I'm not comming back on someone and trying extract another $2500 because I either didnt do my bid properly or I see an opportunity to make a few extra bucks due to a "sudo-crisses!"

            Doug

          16. User avater
            dieselpig | Jul 23, 2006 07:04pm | #49

            No that's not at all what I'm saying Doug... read what I wrote instead of skimming would you?

            The guy still has the option of doing the roof for the original agreed upon amount.  It's just going to be delayed because of the weather.  Look, I'm just going by what has been offered for information.  Everyone else seems to be reading into the whole thing and speculating about what they "think" is going on behind the scenes.

            If I were the contractor on this particular job, I would probably just roof it myself and be done with it.  16 squares could have been installed in the time it took this thread to play out.

            What happens with these threads is someone speculates early on about something that has never been posted as fact.  Then the rest of the gang jumps in and takes the ball and runs with it.

            My "digs" on Gene are because he started his post with "C'mon Brian".... like what I was suggesting was totally off the wall.  He has lept to the conclusion that the guy is getting screwed.... that ain't right.  We've been told that "ALL" the other roofers in the area are flat-out... with the exception of this one guy.  I said in my second post that there may very well be a good reason for it.  Maybe because the guy is overpriced?  Or maybe because the guy is willing to shuffle his schedule around and swoop in and save the day.... at a premium cost.  Why is that such an off the wall scenario?  Even the homeowner has stated that all the roofer's are tied up.  But Gene seems to know better than the homeowner?!?!!?  WTF is that?

            I just got finished telling you guys that I saw quotes for the roofing on my current job that ranged form $85/sq to $200/sq.  What, do you think I'm making this sh2t up or something?

            I know that if I give a fair bid I'm not comming back on someone and trying extract another $2500 because I either didnt do my bid properly or I see an opportunity to make a few extra bucks due to a "sudo-crisses!"

            Man you guys see what you want to see in some of these posts instead of what is actually been written.  Who said the guy didn't bid properly?  The original poster has said SEVERAL times that the rain has screwed up EVERYONE'S schedule in the area.  He has also said that many or most of the roofers in his area couldn't even look at the thing for a month or two... that's on his own research.  So the facts are

            1.  The rain screwed the pooch for everyone.

            2.  The contractor either missed the window of scheduling with his orignal roofer or the roofer is just backed up.  All as a direct result of the rain... through no fault of the contractor.

            3.  The contractor has given the owner two options.  Wait or pay more for the expediated service.

            The facts have NOT been given that:

            1.  The contractor screwed up his bid.

            2.  It's the contractor's fault that they have recieved an EXTRAORDINARY amount of rainfall during the course of the projct.

            3.  He's trying to make a few extra bucks.

            How much do you think the contractor stands to lose by holding the whole project up for a month if the Owner chooses to wait?  Bet it's a he11 of alot more than $2500.  So why would anyone in their right mind gamble like that?  The contractor didn't lay down an ultimatum.... pay up or no roof.  He gave the guy the options he had to work with.

            Hey... I know my point of view isn't anywhere near as sexy and dramatic as the rest of the stories.  But why let the facts get in the way right?  It's way more fun to jump to conclusions and leave some poor stiff swinging in the breeze on Monday morning.  Man some of you guys can't wait to jump at the opportunity to throw a brother under the bus.  I gotta wonder about someone's self esteem who get's off on character assasination without a thimble full of truth.View Image

          17. DougU | Jul 23, 2006 08:45pm | #56

            Brian

            No that's not at all what I'm saying Doug... read what I wrote instead of skimming would you?

            My reading comprehension is fine thank you. I didnt accuse you of anything, just wondered how it is that some on here feel that it's justified in asking another $2500 when it's  already been bid at X. You suggested that the HO should try to split the diff with the GC, my response is "Why" is this the way the whole job will continue, not asking you because your not the GC on this particular job but when you hire a GC and he gives  you a price why then should the HO have to go back a renegotiate different phases of the job? Yea, Yea, I know that circumstances changed, then its time to man up and do the damn roof yourself(meaning the GC), as you said, it'd be done in less time then this thread has ran.

            I gotta wonder what conclusions you think I'm jumping to? I think your to thin skinned, man I didnt jump on your azz about anything, just wondered why Gene was the bad guy for his opinions on this and yours was gospel, thats all.

            Sounds like a solution has been found and the whole damn universe can continue on, I was afraid that fighting in the middle east would be put on hold until this was resolved, thank Allah they can get back to business!

            Doug

          18. User avater
            dieselpig | Jul 23, 2006 09:01pm | #57

            So Diesel, what your saying with all these digs to Gene is that your bid to do a roof for $6000 is only good if you decide it is, otherwise your going to up it by 40% just because things got busy?

            That's the part I took offense to Doug.  Who wouldn't?  It doesn't even resemble what I was suggesting.  You just did a hunt and peck and pulled some crap out of context.  My bid is only good if I decide it is?  Where did you pull that from?  There were extenuating circumstances Doug.... something a good contract should provide for.  Oh yeah... I forgot... that falls under your "yeah, yeah, yeah" argument so it's not worth discussing. 

            Take a look at the big picture Doug.... the first price was low.  The second price was high.  And the guy who is actually going to do the work is right in the middle.  And the biggest price differentiation is $2500. 

            But I'm the jackazz for suggesting that maybe... just maybe... there isn't some big azz conspiracy theory going on where the GC is trying to pocket a whopping $2500.

            Sounds like a solution has been found and the whole damn universe can continue on, I was afraid that fighting in the middle east would be put on hold until this was resolved, thank Allah they can get back to business!

            Hey Doug nobody said this discussion was a mandatory meeting..  And nobody is telling you you've got to stay here and see how it plays out.  If you've got better things to do than, by all means, go ahead and do them.  View Image

          19. DougU | Jul 23, 2006 10:13pm | #59

            Brian

            You just did a hunt and peck and pulled some crap out of context.

            Wrong, I asked a question and you took offence to it.

             

             I forgot... that falls under your "yeah, yeah, yeah" argument so it's not worth discussing. 

            Talk about someone pulling something outta their azz! Where'd you get that shid?

            Take a look at the big picture Doug.... the first price was low.  The second price was high.  And the guy who is actually going to do the work is right in the middle.  And the biggest price differentiation is $2500.

            Enlighten me Brian, where did we determine that the price was either to low or to high?

            I'm of the Jeff Buck school of pricing/bidding a job, "its my price, not to high, not to low, just my price." Its also not negotiable, unless of course you want me to go up.

            I don't care about location, the price someone will do a job for is theres,  high/low, doesn't matter, its what they need to do the job.

            ... there isn't some big azz conspiracy...

            I don't recall suggesting a conspiracy, sorry if I did and don't remember.

            Hey Doug nobody said this discussion was a mandatory meeting..

            Well seeings as your one of the "regulars" I'll take my outsider azz out of this discussion and let you make all the calls on how it should be handled, cant think of a more competent man then you to preside over the thread.

            If you've got better things to do than, by all means, go ahead and do them. 

            Best advice I've seen thus far, again, thanks.

            Doug

             

             

             

             

          20. User avater
            dieselpig | Jul 23, 2006 10:25pm | #61

            I'm the thin skinned one, huh?  Alrighty then. 

            Oh... and the "yeah, yeah, yeah".... that was a direct quote from you Doug.... go back and read your own post.

            I'm a "regular" here?  No more so than you.  In case you haven't noticed man... I'm the guy everyone is disagreeing with.  You're the one flipping out because I responded to your post to me... if that makes me thin-skinned then I guess you're right.  Should I just let you misquote me and say whatever you like?  Is that how the discussions are 'supposed' to work?  Is everyone who calls you on the carpet and asks you to qualify your comments 'thin-skinned'?

            You seemed to imply that this whole discussion was a waste of time with your sarcastic "middle east" comment.  That's the only reason why I suggested you go ahead and tend to whatever it is that you think makes better use of your time.

            And low and behold.... when it was all said and done.....how about the OP's last comment?  Seems he's got a better grasp on business than some of the contractors here.  How 'bout that.View Image

          21. seeyou | Jul 23, 2006 11:03pm | #63

            >>>>>>>>>>>I'm the thin skinned one, huh? Alrighty then. Maybe you can get discounts on tats if you've got thin skin.............. 

             

            Andrew Douglas: What have you been up to? Jim White: Killin' time... It just won't die.

             

            http://grantlogan.net/

          22. User avater
            trout | Jul 23, 2006 06:37am | #34

            If I understand this correctly the problem is keeping the schedule on track, not so much worry about the roof leaking.

            If it were our building department, assuming the specific inspector has nixed the idea,  I'd write a carefully worded letter asking for an exemption to the roofing requirement due to the unusual amount of rain and shortage of roofing contractors.  The building department will want to see evidence that the structure will be secure for the time being and that a real roof will be forthcoming.

            As part of the argument, it would be good to identify the exact product currently covering the roof sheathing and something from the manufacturer as to how long it can remain exposed prior to roofing.  The contractor could produce a letter indicating the product has been installed as per manufacturers instructions to include in your appeal.

            Your contractor could also attest to the extent of delays the lack of framing approval will cause the rest of the project.

            Also good to have would be a letter from the roofing contractor that simply states that they have been contracted to roof the house on a specific start and finish date.  Even if there is no way in heck they'll guarantee the dates, just getting them to state it in the letter will give you more ammunition.

            Then I'd schedule a visit with the head of framing inspections and the main guy of the building department.  Before submitting the appeal letter I'd ask what they think of the idea and try to get a feel for what they'd go for.  If they say no way to the idea, then I'd submit the appeal along with copies of letters written to the city council, the pope, and anyone else who pulls weight down there. 

            The more noise you and the contractor make the better.  Argue that the building department is unreasonable to grant exemptions when acts of nature are hindering rebuilding progress and new construction.  Blaw, blaw, blaw.

            Having an attorney submit the argument is all the better since it can explicitly or implicitly suggest that you'll sue the city if necessary.

            It sounds like a lot of work, and it is, but it can and has worked wonders.  You're trying to be worth granting the exception just to get rid of the hassle.  :-)

            Of course you could simply bite the bullet and wait until the roofer is ready and readjust schedules as needed. 

            Best of luck

          23. davidmeiland | Jul 23, 2006 06:40am | #35

            A square is 100 square feet. $6000 for 16 squares is already $375 per square so I'm not sure where the $200 figure came from, or where $400 per square adds $2500.

          24. dug | Jul 23, 2006 07:09am | #36

            How hands on is this contractor, before I waited a month on a roofer I'd just roof it myself. I'm not real fast but I'm quite certain I could do 16 sq in under a month. FWIW I don't remember Mike Smith whinning for more money when his mason could'nt get to his chimney ( for those of us that are following his adverse conditions thread)

              With that being said I do understand what diesel is saying about rain delays.Im just telling ya how I'd handle it.

              ( This is assuming that I was the contractor)

            Edited 7/23/2006 12:14 am ET by dug

          25. hurnik | Jul 23, 2006 05:52pm | #44

            The $6,000 was for materials and labor. The roofer charges $200/sq for labor (16 sq = about 3200). The other guy was $400/sq (or was it "about" $400/sq) which is actually twice that, so about $3200 more. Unless the contractor was maybe "adjusting" and consuming some of the price?

          26. dustinf | Jul 23, 2006 02:06pm | #37

            Like David said, something doesn't add up. 

             In the time of chimpanzees I was a monkey.

          27. Piffin | Jul 23, 2006 04:55pm | #41

            200 with Timberlines on a 12/12 is cheap 

             

            Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!

          28. theslateman | Jul 23, 2006 05:14pm | #42

            Read thru more closely-the price was calculated at more like $375.

            16 sqs. at $6000.  That doesn't equate to $200/sq.

          29. Piffin | Jul 23, 2006 05:38pm | #43

            I was responding to what he said. first roofer works at 200.But I agree, the math doesn't work out either way 

             

            Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!

          30. hurnik | Jul 23, 2006 06:02pm | #45

            So the good news is that the lady next door is having her basement finished and her contractor does roofing and just finished a few houses 2 blocks down (I'm familiar with the ones he's done as I walk my dog there). He stopped by and looked at the site and quoted $4500 (plus materials--drip edges, etc, but I've already purchased the shingles) for labor (so a little more than $200/sq, and a less than $400/sq). He said he could do it Thurs and be done on Friday (provided it doesn't rain--wish me luck). He'll write up a contract and drop it off on Tues. for me.So that's about "even" with the extra $1,000 I was willing to pay to the original guy to get it done sooner (but he never called back).Yes, there are many new houses and remodels going on and I'd say about 90% of them haven't had shingles yet (one has had just felt for 3 months), so I can definitely understand everyone being behind. When you get 2" of rain in one day, and you have 10+ inches in 2 months (when your average is 3.5"/month) tends to make for a sucky year to do construction (shoot me now).Thanks everyone for the opinions as I wasn't sure what was the "appropriate" way to handle the situation that didn't cause major problems for everyone. (The contractor's schedule does have that "weather related" clause in it--which is perfectly understandable).

          31. User avater
            dieselpig | Jul 23, 2006 06:08pm | #46

            All's well that ends well, right?View Image

          32. davidmeiland | Jul 23, 2006 06:48pm | #48

            Well, looks like Gene snapped his fingers.

            I'm a little surprised by the cost. What do other contractors pay for shingle installation? Install only, no materials provided except fasteners, I figure $60-100/square, the higher end of that range if toeboards are required, lower if they can ride it. I recently had a real PITA metal roof put on, install labor only $200/square.

            At $400/square labor only I could make far more than I do now. Them's beach-house wages.

          33. User avater
            dieselpig | Jul 23, 2006 07:06pm | #50

            Yeah Gene snapped his fingers.... and got the "guy" finishing the neighbor's basement to install the roofing.  That ain't the same as hiring a roofer Dave.  C'mon man.View Image

          34. User avater
            dieselpig | Jul 23, 2006 07:10pm | #51

            Let me throw this out there:

            Suppose the orignal poster started a thread like this:

            "I hired a contractor to do an addition for me.  The rain has really screwed things up for everyone.  Now his roofer can't get here for a month.  We found another guy who can do it right away for $2500 more.  Instead, I went across the street and hired "the guy finishing my neighbor's basement" to do it."

            How do you think that one would fly Dave?  I'd bet my f'in truck the guy would walk out of here with three new a-holes ripped in his backside.View Image

          35. User avater
            user-175028 | Jul 23, 2006 08:11pm | #55

            All of your posts are right on as far as I am concerned. I've just come off of a huge job where the big picture was most important & money was an issue. Things still need to get done. In turn this does not mean that the owner needs to get raked over the coals, but the evil reality factor does kick in. As per one of your first posts I have similar clauses in contract re weather, changes, proposed changes, material availability etc. Where I live sub's rule the day due to the preassures on the construction industry, lots of work & a lack of skilled trades. One of my cohorts has to bribe his cribber on every 2nd house just to get him to show up a week late.There is a trickey balance in all of this, glad to see that a solution presented itself for this roof. TNSTAAFL.(There's no such thing as a free lunch).

          36. davidmeiland | Jul 23, 2006 10:15pm | #60

            All of your points are well made, but I gotta say this: the only thing that keeps half of these threads going is the twisting and warping we do as we respond. That's most of the fun. If there's ever a thread that lays out the entire question clearly with all of the relevant details and leaves nothing to conjecture then I'll let you know.

          37. User avater
            dieselpig | Jul 23, 2006 10:35pm | #62

            Yeah you're right about that Dave.  And it is fun.  I'm sorry that Doug, in particular, is taking so much offense to me.  I didn't mean to make it personal.  Just debating the topic. 

            I like to think that I run an honest and ethical business Dave.  I truly mean that.  So if I read of an ethics type topic (which this one essentially turned into) and post my thoughts on it.... I tend to be surprised when a majority disagrees and thinks that my stance is out of line.  I never once suggested that the guy should be cornered into ponying up another $2500.  I was only arguing that it was a viable and ethical option.  If it were the only option.... or there wasn't a quality reason for the option to even exist, well that would have been a totally different scenario.

            In the end, the OP is paying $1000 more than the original quote, and $1500 less than the second and higher quote.  Given the extenuating circumstances, that doesn't sound too out of line to me.  And I never once got the vibe from the OP that he felt he was being 'jacked' so I'm still not sure where all the conspiracy theories came from. 

            In the mean time.... I'll keep hanging on and waiting to hear about that "perfect storm" of a thread you speak of.  But I won't hold my breath, right?  ;)  View Image

          38. User avater
            Huck | Jul 23, 2006 07:37pm | #53

            "All's well that ends well, right?"

            It seems to me that the fly in the ointment here is that the OP went outside his original contract with the general contractor.  So now if there is any conflict or problem arising from the roofing job, the contractor is in a difficult if not untenable position.  Unless he did this with the GC's blessing, even then its a mixed bag.

            I once did a job where the H.O. decided to "save money" by purchasing and hiring his own floorcovering/installation.  Later ended up in a legal dispute, and tried to get me involved.  I had to say Sorry, if you had left that in my contract, I could help you.  As it is, you're on your own."he...never charged nothing for his preaching, and it was worth it, too" - Mark Twain

          39. hurnik | Jul 23, 2006 09:42pm | #58

            Yes, the contractor said that he had called his "usual" roofers that he's worked with and only 2 of them would even do the job. One was the original guy with the stipulation that he was backed up and it'd be a month or so before he could get to it.The other was the guy that wanted more (which to be honest, in a supply/demand situation I can see charging more--it's not like they don't have any work to do).The contractor said that if I knew anyone else (ask around the neighborhood type of thing because several houses have had their roofs done this year).I did contact the Contractor and verified that he was okay with getting a different roofer provided I paid the new roofer directly. (granted, the guys card says: Such and such roofing & home repairs--yeah, I know it's just a business card, but the houses he's done on the other block nobody has complained about and they seemed quite happy with his work).So the end result is that as of now, I'm "okay" with the situation (obviously if the roof leaks afterwards, that's a diff. story, but ultimately it was my choice, so I have nobody to blame but myself), given my two choices (wait or pay a lot more).I deal mainly with computer work, so I know what it's like to quote out a system to someone and then maybe have the part become unavailable or back-ordered. I give my customers the same option: You can wait until the part is available, or I can get a diff. part or from somewhere else but it may be more.)

          40. davidmeiland | Jul 23, 2006 01:17am | #15

            For $6000 I figure the roof is about 25 squares of 40-year and not ridiculously steep or complicated. When prices come up it's always clear that it's cheaper than here just about everywhere else. The OP did not describe the job at all... maybe there's 50 squares with 4 layers to tear off and the whole thing is 16:12 on the edge of a cliff.

          41. Piffin | Jul 23, 2006 04:44pm | #39

            your post stinks of someone who has not been around muh roofing or who works in the desert. Slow down on accusaations 'till you know what you are talking about. 

             

            Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!

      2. MikeSmith | Jul 23, 2006 01:07am | #8

        dustin... we dry in with RoofTopGuard II.... there  are other products out there similar..

         like Berger UDL..

        we use a button cap fastener and we don't worry about  leaks

        the roofer can show up anytime he wants... no worry here, mateMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore

        1. Lansdown | Jul 23, 2006 01:09am | #9

          Mike, what does that cost per roll and what is the coverage?

          1. MikeSmith | Jul 23, 2006 01:10am | #10

            about  $125.... 10 sq. roll.... RTG is 60" x 200'

            UDL is 52" x  ????... also 10 sq. rollMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore

        2. dustinf | Jul 23, 2006 01:14am | #13

          Would you drywall without the roof shingled?  Not being smart just curious.In the time of chimpanzees I was a monkey.

          1. MikeSmith | Jul 23, 2006 01:19am | #17

            absolutely... with the new synthetic underlayments.. ( RTG II ..... UDL )

            we started using them because we do a lot of remodeling... and we often have roofs stripped with finished floors below

            so.... delay drywall because my roofer is behind.... hah

            as my mentor said... "What , me worry ?"Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore

          2. dustinf | Jul 23, 2006 01:26am | #22

            as my mentor said... "What , me worry ?"

            Ha, I wish I could say the same thing.  I go to bed at night dreaming of bankruptcy, and wake up wondering which local auctioneer will be selling off all my stuff.  All in the midst of my most profitable year.In the time of chimpanzees I was a monkey.

          3. MikeSmith | Jul 23, 2006 01:34am | #23

            it took me a long time to figure out how risky our business is..

             slowly but surely it started to sink in..." risk = reward"

            bid accordingly....

            and....

            let's be careful out thereMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore

          4. User avater
            BillHartmann | Jul 23, 2006 01:59am | #24

            "I go to bed at night dreaming of bankruptcy, and wake up wondering which local auctioneer will be selling off all my stuff. "Let me know when.And don't tell that Buck character. I am needed some good deals on tools.

          5. davidmeiland | Jul 23, 2006 02:27am | #25

            Sounds like the "this is too good for me, I don't deserve this" complex.

        3. Piffin | Jul 23, 2006 04:41pm | #38

          saved me a lot of typing 

           

          Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!

      3. DougU | Jul 23, 2006 02:43am | #26

        Would you drywall with the roof only papered in?

        I've re-roofed houses that have the dry wall up and had them without shingles for a month, never had any problems, what would be the diff?

        On my own house I tore off and papered with 45 (or some such weight) felt because I was going to add 4 dormers, some chimney work and other misc stuff. Had it papered for about 6 weeks and never had a problem, cant imagine why something like what Mike Smith uses would stop anyone from moving forward with the project.

        I'd do any of this stuff before I'd give $2500 more on a $6000 roof job.

        Doug

         

    2. Lansdown | Jul 23, 2006 01:04am | #5

      I went one step further and used I&W everywhere when I was in a similar predicament. It was completely watertight and adds an extra level of defense, a few more dollars though.

      1. davidmeiland | Jul 23, 2006 01:14am | #12

        I had a 15-square roof with 30# felt on it for about a month. We got some major rain during that month and a very, very small amount of water come in. A client 'felted' his roof with one of the newer materials... was it Feltex?... and nailed it down with cap nails. It leaked a lot during the same period, probably due to the fasteners. A guy I know a few miles away is putting a slate roof over 100% I&WS but I thought it was only supposed to go 9' from the eave, according to Grace.

        If I were the OP's contractor I might suggest going 100% I&WS (if it's rec'd by Grace) and ask him to split the cost. It would be a lot less than $2500 to make that upgrade, although I did notice a nasty price increase from my supplier of Vycor this week, about 15%.

        1. Lansdown | Jul 23, 2006 01:26am | #21

          I used this product by Tamco (very similar to Graces I&W shield)
          The installation instructions state the whole deck can be covered. It is self adhesive (very sticky) so just a few whacks from a hammer stapler held it in place until it adhered, and it is self sealing around nail / staple penetrations. Think I paid $45 a roll last year (my roofers price) and I used 8 rolls for aprox. 1200 sf of deck.BTW all petroleum based products have shot through the roof with the price of oil going up.http://www.tamko.com/ProductDisplayPage/tabid/53/ControlType/productDisplay/itemid/1508/Default.aspx

  3. toyot | Jul 23, 2006 01:04am | #6

    It seems to me that unless there's an escape clause for the contractor, he's obligated to put as roof on for $6k, regardless of his actual cost. That being said, you are in a rough spot, or perhaps both of you are in a rough spot. He can make your life and addition miserable, you can trash his name on billboards. Perhaps there's a compromise whereby you both eat a little of the overun and save the time and expense of defending a 2nd degree murder charge.

  4. User avater
    dieselpig | Jul 23, 2006 01:06am | #7

    What does your contract state about delays to the schedule?  Mine reads something like this:

      Commence work: Approximately x/xx/06 not including delays caused by inclement weather. Construction time through substantial completion: X weeks, not including delays and adjustments for delays caused by: inclement weather, additional time required for Change Order work, and other delays unavoidable or beyond the control of the Contractor

    So if I were your contractor and we were under this arrangement... you'd have two options.  1.Wait for the original roofer  and 2. Pay the $2500 for the guy who is available.

    If the delays are the result of weather, why should it cost your contractor any more money than it already has?  Weather doesn't just delay the work currently in progress, it can also delay future work and scheduling as you're already finding out.  Option #1 still fits neatly inside the contract (my contract anyway) as waiting for the roofer is a "delay caused by inclement weather", isn't it?  Now he's offerring you a second option of a more expensive roofer who can get to it sooner.   The balls in your court.

    Me?  I'd offer to split the cost with him and see what he says.  As a contractor, I'd probably bite hard on that opportunity because I'd want to get the job moving along just as badly as you do.  Time is money. 

    Of course all this depends on how his contract deals with situations like this. 

    View Image
  5. shellbuilder | Jul 23, 2006 05:59am | #33

    I build a lot of additions for people amd many times my payment schedule says blankety blank amount of dollars when roofing is complete. That is my problem to get the roof on if I want to get that draw. This sounds like a con.

     

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