Did some searching and found the diamond-copper-shingles-for-the-way-cool-Russian-turret thread but didn’t find a thread that addresses my situation. Actually,it’s a Mother thing<g>. The house is 1970s vintage (I will post a photo over the weekend-going to visit tomorrow) & the flat livingroom window was replaced w/a bay window. Cedar shakes were used to shingle the “roof”. Now Mother is asking if the roof could be changed to copper. She has asked a couple of copper people (they were working on neighborhood McMansions)but noone has ever returned her calls. Suspect because the job is “too small”.
Soooooo, fresh from the victory of a small bathroom remodel (and she won’t let me touch the Master 3/4 bath….yet<G>), I figured, “How hard can this be?” Access isn’t too difficult, I have my nice trusty Little Giant Ladder but I’d like to know:
1 – Where to find copper shingles (I think shingles will look better than one piece of copper)?
2 – What material goes underneath them (ice & water shield, insulation etc?
3 – Would copper or stainless nails/screws be better for this installation?
4 – What do I use to cover the nails/screws in the final top row of shingles?
I’d welcome any other thoughts on this subject that I may have missed. Oh & we are talking western exposure for this window.
Keep smooshing those Japanese beetles, people!!
Replies
http://www.paradigmshingles.com/
Cool!
Here are the photos, Seeyou.
Slateman, I checked out the link that you posted & while I think they look nice on the featured roofs/homes, I suspect they might be too large for this application? Just looks that way to my eyes.Keep smooshing those Japanese beetles, people!!
Grant had the right idea to have them made by him or locally - since you're right too -- stock shingles would be the wrong scale.
Even though thats a small area it's a labor intensive job since you have all the elements of a large roof with very little field.
You should have a small break on site too if possible.
What do you mean by "small break on site"?Keep smooshing those Japanese beetles, people!!
"What do you mean by "small break on site"?"He ment brake.A device to bend metal. The copper in this case..
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A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
Ach du Schreck!!! I need another TOOL???Coolness<g>.Keep smooshing those Japanese beetles, people!!
Bill
I am certain that Slateman knows the difference between a break and a brake.
Considering the size of the project and the relationship to the HO I would bet that he was refering to a break site with coffee and donuts.
9 and 3 works best for me. Straight coffe and sticky rolls. Lemonade and cookies in the afternoon.
LOL
Rich
Are you kidding?!?! Caffeine & sugar followed by sugar & sugar!!!Appetizers (I make killer cherry tomato w/mozzarella cups) maybe some pulled pork (gotta know ahead of time 'cause it will take about 2 days (one for the rub, one for the oven), David's slaw (Peachfest had KILLER coleslaw) w/Gunner's velly velly smooth Moonshine Apple Pie & some kind of dark chocolate ('cause dark chocolate is HEALTHY<G>)Yes indeedy, just another day on the funny farm. After giving a stern warning, "leave the traps alone" to Kitty's uncomprehending visage, a deafening SNAP 15 minutes later found the snapped peanut butter laden trap 5 ft from where it was set. Kitty was spotted 20ft away in a defensive position, constantly licking her nose. Darn dog...
Are you kidding?!?! Caffeine & sugar followed by sugar & sugar!!! Busted by the nutrition police. I thought we were going to work at Grandma's house, there has to be cookies and sandwiches made with Wonder bread, balonga and fake cheese.
Appetizers (I make killer cherry tomato w/mozzarella cups) maybe some pulled pork (gotta know ahead of time 'cause it will take about 2 days (one for the rub, one for the oven), David's slaw (Peachfest had KILLER coleslaw) w/Gunner's velly velly smooth Moonshine Apple Pie & some kind of dark chocolate ('cause dark chocolate is HEALTHY<G> Are you kidding me, we came to work not cook, coleslaw at break time??
How about coffee and mozarella stick in the AM and filtered water and watermelon in the PM
Yes indeedy, just another day on the funny farm. After giving a stern warning, "leave the traps alone" to Kitty's uncomprehending visage, a deafening SNAP 15 minutes later found the snapped peanut butter laden trap 5 ft from where it was set. Kitty was spotted 20ft away in a defensive position, constantly licking her nose. Darn dog... Always blame the dog, and he probably just wandered in from a run around the neighborhood, checking out the garabage cans
LOL
Rich
Edited 8/29/2008 10:56 pm ET by cargin
Afriend of mine bit on a foreclousre to use as a rental.THEN AFTERWARDS she asked me to look at it. In general it was in good shape and did not seen to have any problems that she had not found.However, I had to mention that their was a donut shop down the block and that would slow down the work and increase the cost..
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A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
Bill
We got Free double shot lattes, big cinamon rolls and big sticky rolls.
My son went to the grand opening of a new coffee shop in town. 2 sisters work there, we have kind of adopted their family since their dad left.
They were sold out of both kinds of rolls, but they had special roll boxes with our names on them under the counter. It was sweet.
One of them as a crush on my son, but he is 5 years older than her. She is a little sister to him.
Anyway we got a great non nutritional break, free of charge.
Plantlust, they were a gift and it would be bad manners to refuse a gift.
Rich
"Plantlust, they were a gift and it would be bad manners to refuse a gift."Hey, that works for me.And did you monny teach you not to waste food, that there where starving children in India.So you had to eat them..
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A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
Bill
Exactly.
We were working on one of my rental properties. Repairing rotten sill and replacing a door. Not getting paid.
Just a little bennie, on a bad day.
We have helped these girls out big time, and they helped out my son big time last year.
Rich
Understood & totally agree.I was just figuring out the menu for the workers doing Mother's copper.Yes indeedy, just another day on the funny farm. After giving a stern warning, "leave the traps alone" to Kitty's uncomprehending visage, a deafening SNAP 15 minutes later found the snapped peanut butter laden trap 5 ft from where it was set. Kitty was spotted 20ft away in a defensive position, constantly licking her nose. Darn dog...
If you have just field shingles then unless you do like Grant suggested and have everything made to exact dimensions you'll need a way to bend and form to the middle hips and possibly the walls.
Bill has corrected my spelling , but his reasoning is the same.
Just One beer. You can have the rest of the six pack at the end of the day.;-)
Here are some other options:http://www.zappone.com/CopperBayWindows.phphttp://www.metalandcopperroofs.com/products.htmlhttp://www.gfmsystems.com/products/shingles.phphttp://www.copperroof.com.au/downloads.html
OK - It is pretty small. The siding creates the flashing.
I could see doing it in standing seam (cheapest), something like the diamond shingles (easiest to install), or copper shingles mimicking the existing cedar shingles (most expensive).
With carefull measurements, a package could be fabricated that would take very little alteration on the installer's part. I'll post some pics of the copper shingles when I go down to the shop later.View Image
I tried to picture the standing seam & it doesn't "look right". Do you think the diamonds would fit w/the rest of the house? I don't think that we should mimic the cedar. It was something my father installed after he replaced the original window w/the bay. It IS a 1970s vintage, so I'm not sure what shape would work the best. Oh & they tore down a house across the street to put in a brick "cave"
McMansion. "Snout" McMansions have a gigantic garage out front. "Cave" houses have the garage sticking out AND a livingroom on the otherside. You get to enter the house inbetween, hence my "cave" reference.
Keep smooshing those Japanese beetles, people!!
So many questions that I can't really answer without a picture. When you post one I'll be glad to try and help.
1 - Where to find copper shingles
I made the ones to fit the turret - some one local may be able to do the same or I'd be glad to give you a quote. Shipping is so high these days that that may be prohibitive depending on size.
2 - What material goes underneath them (ice & water shield, insulation etc?
Probably I&WS, but seeing will help determine that. If I&WS, it needs to be laid tight - conforming to the roof shape.
3 - Would copper or stainless nails/screws be better for this installation?
Either would be fine - unless the sheathing is a little bouncy, screws would slow me down. Might work better for a newbie.
4 - What do I use to cover the nails/screws in the final top row of shingles?
Have to see the situation. Is it a brick/siding/stone/etc wall? Does the bay run up under a soffit?
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I like to use a rosin paper slip sheet between my underlayment and the copper. Since copper moves quite a bit with changes in temperature, it keeps it from sticking, and lets it float free. Also, some of the ice & water membranes are abrasive and the copper can wear from the back side.John Svenson, builder, remodeler, NE Ohio
Since copper moves quite a bit with changes in temperature, it keeps it from sticking, and lets it float free. Also, some of the ice & water membranes are abrasive and the copper can wear from the back side.
All that would be a concern if it were a big roof plane. But the rafter length is about a foot on this one. I think I can sleep easy not worrying about rosin paper.View Image
I'm sure it can be done with no problem on a small job, but it's the way I learned it, it's considered the "proper" way, and it's cheap. So I see no reason to skip it.John Svenson, builder, remodeler, NE Ohio
I'm sure it can be done with no problem on a small job, but it's the way I learned it, it's considered the "proper" way, and it's cheap. So I see no reason to skip it.
Actually, the reason for rosin paper is to isolate terne metal from the asphaltic content of the felt used under it. Petroleum products are corrosive to ferrous products. There is little if any conflict between copper and felt. It's a habit carried over to copper from guys that were used to doing terne roofs.
Your point about the abrasiveness of the I&WS is somewhat valid. But only for extremely long pans. I use pans of 10' or less. The lateral seams allow the pans to basically stay put while the expansion and contraction movement takes place on the ends.
Also, the "juice" created by soldering over I&WS makes a mess. If we've dried in a low pitch roof we're going to lay flat seam over with I&WS, we use rosin paper to isolate it.
Also, any metal/copper roofs I've done in the last 3-4 years have been installed over synthetic underlayments that have no asphalt in them.
As far as the felt sticking to the back of a metal roof: What difference does it make? Felt vs.metal? Metal wins. View Image
I did a little sketchuping on your pic to try and help with the visualation.
A kit for the copper standing seam would run about $400 (I'm guessing the whole bay is about 6' wide) plus shipping. I can nail that down if I have better dimensions.
The copper shingles would be a little more.
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Seeyou
Can you tell me why the "seams" have to be up/down? Normally shingles are laid across, correct? Is there any reason why the strips of copper can't be laid across the roof? Kindof like the hobbit house roofs w/steamed & bent wood shingles.Yes indeedy, just another day on the funny farm. After giving a stern warning, "leave the traps alone" to Kitty's uncomprehending visage, a deafening SNAP 15 minutes later found the snapped peanut butter laden trap 5 ft from where it was set. Kitty was spotted 20ft away in a defensive position, constantly licking her nose. Darn dog...
Can you tell me why the "seams" have to be up/down?
On a standing seam roof, the seams are typically 1" or so tall. That would stop the water from flowing off the roof.
What you're describing would be falling into the catagory of a flat seam roof. FS is typically used on lower slope roofs with the seams being soldered.
There is no reason it couldn't be used in your case. Due to the steep slope, the seams would not need to be soldered. The skill level is increasing with this type installation, though. The seams would need to be hammered in place.
Kindof like the hobbit house roofs w/steamed & bent wood shingles.
You don't have a situation where anything would be steamed or bent. I think I know the look you're after, but it'd be hard to apply it to this bay.
Here's a picture of a bermuda roof. Something like this could be scaled down a little and might work, but once again, you're greatly increasing the skill level of the installation.
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Edited 8/30/2008 2:25 pm ET by seeyou
The skill level is increasing with this type installation, though.(muttering to self) Of COURSE it is. Damn Mother for my champagne taste.Yes indeedy, just another day on the funny farm. After giving a stern warning, "leave the traps alone" to Kitty's uncomprehending visage, a deafening SNAP 15 minutes later found the snapped peanut butter laden trap 5 ft from where it was set. Kitty was spotted 20ft away in a defensive position, constantly licking her nose. Darn dog...
Are you planning to also replace the siding on the rest of the house? Once you get that pretty copper on the bay, it's going to look like Clinique on a pig.
BTW - I really like the gardens out front. Lovely.
Edited 8/31/2008 1:23 am by aimless
Wellllll, there is always a front porch!
Mother wants to get rid of the overhang.New neighbors avec small child & dog in the bad karma house next door. Fingers crossed that salt was tossed & sage was burnt during the badly needed renovation. (And I am NOT bitter about not being able to buy it, tear it down & increase my acreage...well almost acreage)