*
I’m posting this here in “Construction Techniques” because this is where it seems relevent.
I remember when the “Alternate Uses for a Woodshed” thread was started by G.W.C. last year. There was so much anger and arguing on the board that lots of folks thought there should be a place specified for those who enjoy this type of thing.
I don’t know if it’s seasonal depressive disorder or what, but there sure seems to be a lot of anger and name calling on the board these days. Is there some way you guys could do this stuff in private, and post your building related threads in the main sections of this board?
The arguing is really distracting for those of us more interested in building. Thanks – Jim
Replies
*
Jim...I second the motion...but I have posted my thoughts on foul language and personal attacks for two years now...The flamers love to flame...It is there personality...Mine is to speak up, not sit back.
near the stream wishing all profanity banned...until then I will repost those that use it,
aj (just aj)
jesting is fun...hateful anger is hateful anger and just makes the poster look very neanderthalic.
*I second Jim's thoughts. I have been lurking around here for years. I've got some great advice and hopefully given some. That is what this board is all about. Let's not let it get too personal. Can't we all just get along, Rodney.
*Rodney,You thirded the motion "Rodney, you ignorant slut!"(Saturday Night Live humor used on me!)...I seconded it.Just jesting Mr lurker...Lurk away and enjoy!near the stream,aj
*I'm right there with you Jim, Lately I don't have time to read all the posts, but what time I do have is not worth looking at all the foul personality issues. Better to keep it "constructive" as much as possible, send the rudeness to the tavern or further...So many good ideas and help spread on this forum, why muck it up with nastiness?What we post is a written record, and it speaks volumes. It stays a while, too. Something to consider.MD
*i What we post is a written record, and it speaks volumes. It stays a while, too. Something to consider. i MD So true...So true...near the stream,ajpeace love and groovieness...DEJA VUE!!!...same time last year.
*Question: Why are the people here so mean?
*i Question: Why are the people here so mean? THE people here are not so mean, George. SOME of the people here are mean spirited.This has been an extremely good place to find info, trade ideas and techniques, and share some insight on how things are done around the country. Personal attacks and pure meanness have taken away from all that. People have shyed away from sharing because they are afraid that someone who doesn't agree with their methods or ideologies will flame them. They are probably right, too. I learned a very long time ago that you could have wonderful friendships and converstaions with strangers if you do not talk about Religion, Politics, or personal finances (and a few other topics). We are here to talk about, and trade ideas about, building and remodeling. You will find, however, that your methods or ideas will be questioned. When done peacefully, and with honest intent, it makes for great discussions. It is a great place to learn.Good post Jim. James
*lord knows i'm gregarious... and i have no dearth of opinions... about anything..some don't like me or my style.. but that's ok.. i try to bring them around in conversation anyway..one thing i always live by.. everyone gets up in the am and puts their pants on and goes out to face the world...i try to remember thatthey've got their own set of problems.. so i cut them some slack.. and hope they will for me too..some have the personalities of a a turtle.. or a scorpion....so i keep that in mind when i'm talking to them..and some can't read a sentence without misunderstanding the writer's intent..if we can cut each other a little slack...and not be quick to take offense.. it would smooth things out...now if blodgett would only quit his constant whining.. i'd be a lot happier.....
*I've re-learned the art of restraint here, something I used to think I was good at before my introduction to cyberspeak. I may not agree with a lot of what is posted, but try not to form conclusions about the people writing it. It is far too little to judge with, and not worth making mistakes that could cost some valuable friendships.I'm really glad that when Petefest came around, I didn't have to dread meeting someone I directly or indadvertenly ticked off, or had a flame war with. Of course, nobody showed up who had that kind of history either...Willing to agree or disagree politely with anyone here.MD
*Jim 'Crazy Legs" Blodgett,With Thanksgiving just around the corner, and the X-mas holidays soon to come, I find this thread very timely.Alot of good information is lost in these threads, and even worse, alot more never gets posted, as a result of all the unnecessary "venting".This forum provides all of us an opportunity both to learn from others, and, if we wish, to share our knowledge with others.Having said that, push the following keys on your Construction Master IV, to find the backing bevel for the hips in a 12/12 single pitch roof ( at a typical 90 degree corner ).For any other pitch, just replace the unit rise, 12, with the new unit rise.
*Aj , how about Roberts Rule of Order?
*Hello, I have a technical question... am building an 24x16 addition with a low pitch roof. I would like to mill and use some timber from my property for the exposed beams. First should I use pine or oak? Secondly, is seven months enough time for the timber to dry outside before installation? Thank you in advance for any reply.
*pat....How bout it?...Well I just reread the Constitution last week...It's an amazingly quick and well worded doc considering that thousands of laws draw from it as a basic understanding of how to live in mass groups larger than a cave clan.near the stream,aj
*Steve, you'll get more responses if you post this question under its own title. Go back to the page where you clicked on this thread and click "add discussion". I understand a very general rule of thumb for air drying is one year per inch of thickness though I think some timberframeers use green timbers and just accept the shrinking, cracking and checking. As to the pine vs. oak, the oak would be stronger given equal size timber, but pine is fine . They both need to be sized correctly to carry the intended load. I'm sure not a structural engineer, repost with some more detail and I'll bet you get some usefull info. Chuck
*Jeezzz,Poke a little fun and everyone's jumping on their high horse.Maybe I'm a little ruff around the edges or something, but I like a good ribbing every once in a while. It keeps people on the right track. It keeps their noses out of the air and in the sawdust where it needs to be. I'm always up for a good conflict or two, even at my expense. I've been put in my place a time or two by those who knew more than I thought I did. I'm a better man for it.I'll pass on the big group hug. Ed. Williams
*Nothing wrong with a little ribbing Ed but some prefer to put people in there place with profanity and that just removes there credibility from there postings . If someone said : I dissagree with that here is how we would doit Or if they said : You Dumb sh!t what a stupid a$$ h@le you can't do it that way . I think you are more inclined to belive the person who is polite, even if he is not 100% correct.
*Jim, I'm in agreement with you. I'm also in the position of being able to delete posts and threads, and ban posters for the good of the board. I think that I've historically operated with a very light hand. I've never banned a poster, and I've deleted very few posts. I'm getting tired of it though. We're adults, Breaktime is for the discussion of homebuilding, and I don't think that I should have to moderate between people who can't distinguish between debate and name calling. In order to make better use of my time, I'm considering giving up the light touch, and banning posters after one warning. What do you think?Planning for the winter flames,Andy
*Andy,I am for self control as you are Andy...But it only works if the polite amongst us ignore or put up with the less than polite behavior. The minute someone calls a flame a flame, all hell breaks loose. This is a battle for postinig rights...IT boils down to this...Either we all have the right to flame (which means non-flamers can flame flamers for flaming) or no one has the right to flame (which means someone has to put flames out (Taunton)).It would be nice if a limerack or two could raise a laugh to change a thread gone bad to good too!Good Luck Andy...May the force be with you!near the stream,aj (the anti-christ of flamers)
*I'm glad AJ responded to this question, and I hope others will too. But since it is addressed to me, and you asked a direct question - "What do you think?" - and I started this thread, I feel compelled to answer - even though trying to answer raises many more questions in my mind than answers.I think that Carl Rogers was right. We are all born with the potential to live fulfilling lives. Our environment, and experiences often cause us to react in ways we wouldn't, had they been different. I believe people can change. I believe in redemption. I believe that the single most powerful step toward personal change is introspection. By looking in the mirrors life holds up in front of us each day, we have the opportunity to identify and strip away some of the barriers that are keeping us from living the fulfilling lives we might live.I respect the fact that Taunton spends a great deal of money and energy on these discussion boards, although it's not really clear to me why they do. But I know this - this board has helped renew my interest in my craft, by allowing me to meet other folks with similar passion, and discuss common interests. I've met many people here that I identify with, who I might easily be more like, if I hadn't been so danged lucky in my life.So Andy, I don't know about how banning certain posters would or would not benefit Taunton. But I hope you won't have to do that. I hope my brothers and sisters who sometimes use strong language and name calling will realize that they are weakening their arguments, instead of strengthening them. The more contributers, the better. There is a large pool of knowledge at this site that we can all draw from. I would hate to see the pool get smaller because of someone's style, when their content is an asset to the community.
*jim.. good phrasing...when i lose my temper... i know i have already lost the arguement...since most of these posts are for a greater audience than the person we are directly responding to, one has to weigh the effect of the words on the greater audience..sometimes it is so satisfying to tell someone what an assh*le they are... and it is so conterproductive...if they are indeed an assh*le ,, they probably do not recognize it .. and my telling them is not going to convince them.. especially in public...the banning thing... dangerous grounds.. i would rather see some deletions rather than some banning..i can't think of a single poster... wether i agreed with them or not , that i haven't learned something from...the only guy i no who banned himself... certainly had a lot to offer.. i'd hate to lose a few more .. or even one more........i could see some baiting just to effect a temper tantrum and the desired effect of banning..so, yeah.. without sounding holier than thou.. the descent into anger is not a pretty thing.. i have to guard against it always....we are all citizens of this board, this country, and this planet.. if we can't understand and manage our own anger.. what hope is there for other parts of the world..where they have so much more serious differences than the things we are discussing...b we have met the enemy .. and he is us..Pogo
*My real name is Win Osborn and I live in Eureka Springs, AR. Being an art community and a tourist town, we have two very active BBSs. One of them was organized by folks banned from the other one. Everyone is happy. The main one, Geekfest, has flourished and become a wonderful board chiefly, in my opinion, because they do use some reluctant control. They have only banned 2 or 3 posters, and they are ones whose counterparts are the main irritants at Breaktime. Absolutely no one misses them. I vote for the bans. You've got to look to the future.
*If a message is posted and no one opens and reads it, does it still need censoring ?Who's to blame when someone gets upset with what they are reading? The one who wrote it or the one who read it? The only damage being done here is to the bloodpressure of the people responding. The battling posters are big boys and girls. Change the channel (or in this case, discussion thread) if you have to.
*Jim says, "But I hope you won't have to do that. I hope my brothers and sisters who sometimes use strong language and name calling will realize that they are weakening their arguments, instead of strengthening them. The more contributers, the better. There is a large pool of knowledge at this site that we can all draw from. I would hate to see the pool get smaller because of someone's style, when their content is an asset to the community."As is always the case, Jim speaks with utter reasonableness and good will. But... I wonder if there may come a time when the damage caused by an individual's refusal to obey the rules of his community can outweigh his contribution to that community? Andy
*Is Eureka Springs between Fayetteville and NW Arkansas Regional Airport? Nice country, that.Andy
*The road of censorship is a steep and slippery one. Particularly where opinions are concerned. I have a couple of threads mixed in my mind, but, I see the Tavern having one set of rules and the other threads another. Perhaps the judicious use of post deletion on the more extreme cases a few times will send the message rather than banning. Not knowing the people involved personally it is difficult to tell the difference from kidding and flaming, until you've been around the forum a while. I also can't recall if a thread can be "closed" by the moderator. If that is possible, closing a thread may give folks a chance to cool. The topic could then be re opened, hopefully on track.
*That road is indeed a slippery one. I never plan to delete a thread because of the opinion expressed (Racism and the like aside). But there's the rub -- How do you know? Trust me, I have your best interest at heart. That answer gives me the creeps, but I don't have a better one, except to say that I do have Taunton's best interest at heart. Honestly, I don't have the time to look at every thread anymore. That's one reason why I'm thinking banning posters, not individual threads. People know the rules, and I think rarely if ever break them accidentally.Andy
*Andy,Taunton does have posting rules but I can't find them today...I think it's very obvious that foul language not in jest is just reason for Taunton to take direct action...by marking a post as deleted due to unacceptable content...name of poster left at mark..so the community knows who was deleted. Ask the poster to stop posting personal attacks...And give them one chance to buck up. Next is a temporary banning from the site and last is ask them not to come back volluntarily...Ask them to find a board where they are wanted. If they think that flaming is OK...then let them find a board where it is enjoyed...near the stream loving the jesting only, and liking all of you,aj
*Andy,
View Image © 1999-2000"He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich W. Nietzsche
*Andy, I am glad I am not sitting in your seat. It is easy to give advice when you don't have to make the decision. Even when you are used to making them. No matter what you do, someone won't like it. Good Luck!bob
*Jim,
View Image © 1999-2000"He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich W. Nietzsche
*Joe,I know you will not appreciate this comment..but Dennis is reacting to your posts...then you are reacting to his...It's a circle of uncivil posts that starts with the first one to react uncivily...It does seem that you carry a mighty big stick...but I of course having been barbecued a zillion times am biased.Use your own post for example...who resorts to foul language?...You do...i kick him in his ass? ...So maybe you feel you need a big stick...fine...but then don't complain if others use a big stick on you. However the main problem lies in the fact that the escalation of a flame does none of us any good. But in the same sense being able to change a thread to a jokular nature at least so as to find an enjoyable exit isn't so bad is it?...The choices are clear...join into camps that ignore and or hate each other...have Taunton step in and toss the worst offenders or we can all suck up once in awhile for the good of the board and do whatever each is willing to do to cool off things in a reasonable anount of time.near the stream,ajSo yes Dennis is whacking you...I still think the kisses are worth more than the kicking.
*Jim,
View Image © 1999-2000"He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich W. Nietzsche
*Here's my way of thinking. Use the tavern for bar style "fights". The bars I go to, a little, and even a lot, of smart-a$$ talking flying both ways is to be expected. Use rest of the site, conduct yourselves as you would infront of an existing/potential customer. You may be in front of a potential customer here anyway. I use my name and city in case that happens! Free advertising. Seems simple to me. Jeff
*Where are ya out of jason...Come on by anytime and I'll slap the livin daylights outa ya and then buy ya all the beers I can get ya ta drink!....I too have done my share of wickedly dangerous or difficult work and know where you are coming from...All except beating up the wildlife with my Estwing! I have worked for three weeks solid under five feet of water for six hours a day!!!...And that was a test of will power I'll tell ya!near the big lake and the little stream,aj
*Jeff>>> "Here's my way of thinking. Use the tavern for bar style "fights"."Ditto, I haven't been around here a long time but that seems like a plan. I would also add get over whatever it is you need to get over, life is short.>deleted the rest<
*Okay, I'm walking over to the tavern to whap someone over the head with a capital letter. Or maybe even a percent sign.
*Is sensorship the tool of discrimination?Who decides what is truly pointless and hurtful? Will only members of the inner click be allowed to insult and attack?Once again, sensorship rears it's ugly head.Most of us were quiet content to have our differences in the Tavern but a few, holier than thou participants continue to taunt us into slugfests outside.Construction people are by nature fiercely independent and opinionated.No apologies given and none taken.Gabe
*Gabe,
View Image © 1999-2000"He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich W. Nietzsche
*i Construction people are by nature fiercely independent and opinionated. i Gabe....(this was the post)Not all of us are...not even close to a majority around Lake George...Just the insecure or imature or whatever their reason...near the stream sharing with my competition often if not daily,aj
*AJ, your posting of "Advanced Framing Using Calibrated Bundles of String....by Joe Fusco" was done simply to be vengeful and as hurtful as you could be while hiding behind a veil of righteousness.You did it to insite a lynch mob, period.I read your posts and I see you for what you really are and it's very sad.Andy, when you can justify that post as being with a point, construction related and not vengeful, I may take your comments to me seriously.Gabe
*Joe, in part I am just pulling your chain because you are so easy. When I look for advice, I try and see if there is consistency - and when you crept into the "I have only been doing this for a year routine", well that is the chicken's way out. I can look at Ed's shop, and it feels right. I can listen to Scooter and he sounds right. I read you, and to use a past quote, my eyes glaze over. Maybe you are the greatest carpenter since Christ. But, it feels like a B student that always wanted to be an A student, but didn't quite have the right stuff. Anyhow, it sure is more interesting since Jack started this post and Jim continued it. Additionally, it really is only sawdust - isn't it Joe?Waiting for your next rant, I mean reply.Dennis
*Hey Andy,No sir, I don't envy your position. However, If given your spot, I'd have to make the call for the good of the board. A long time ago, someone here ask me not to use profane language, and I have tried, to the best of my knowledge, to refrain from that practice. It's only right. If I have strayed, for my transgressions, I apologize.I do take issue with the way Mr. Fusco continues and I say "continues" to use this board as his foul mouthed personal platform to degrade those of us who throw ideas up for consideration. Just look at his responses in this thread. Sad.I believe in the right of anyone to say whatever they think is right. I believe that no one is beyond critisium. Lord knows my spelling is a great target. But AJ's folly should be taken seriously. He wanted to show the rest of you what negitive actions Fusco, or someone like him, can do to a fine place like this. What if we all started acting like the foul mouthed Fusco? Jim(Tex).......talk about mean spirited........this guy wrote the book, and you know it.If put to a vote, I'd say Fuscos' contibutions are far outweighed by his lack of humility and his disregard toward what this board stands for. We come here for advice and suggestions. Not to be critized. If he wants to be the boards critic, then put him on the Tauton payroll. Otherwise, in my opinion, I'd say he is the perfect example of someone to be banned, at least until he appreciates what we have going here.I am not in favor, as I'm sure you are, of banning anyone from this site. But enough is enough.That's my vote. Enough is enough.Ed. Williams
*Ed, you are far too kind. My guess is he is the B student and you are the A. Joe's attacks are too personal and he avoids substance like a politician. You observation about trig was right on target. You and your group have built tons of stuff for very wealthy people. Have you ever used any of that stuff? When it gets to that point, you get a professional engineer who not only knows trig, but has experience to go with it. There is an old saying about performers. Those with the greatest talent have the greatest self doubt. Most of you guys are real pros. This guy shouldn't give up his day job.Dennis
*Denis,
View Image © 1999-2000"He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich W. Nietzsche
*Andy,I certainly don't envy your position. What makes your job so tough is that those who pour gasoline on the flamers, egging them on, starting the fight back up again just when it seems to be dying out-they share the blame.Most of these flame fests involve about a half dozen stubborn individuals who just can't let something go. I don't see how one side or the other can be held solely responsible. I think the language issue should be addressed first.It seems that would be the most practicle route to take. Maybe use George Carlin as your guide.Tone down the language and just maybe manners might improve.(And maybe I'm dreaming).Banning individuals should be a last resort. I hope it doesn't come to that. Solomon would not be envious.John
*JRS, yeah, I am guilty of that and it is not a good trait. Dennis
*Mr. Blodgett,I'm glad that you brought this up. I really like it here at Breaktime. Mostly I just read, most of what needs saying gets said by folks with more years than I in this trade. I agree that the flaming and name calling has gone to far this time. Ribbing and teasing are one thing, but some of these more recent threads with some real potential have been ruined as a result of lousey attitudes and , I think, a lack of respect for fellow man.I come here to learn and for the sense of friendship that used to exist around here. I like and respect the people who make up this community and our real world. Even on the Web we are all human beings and a little bit of love and respectful behaviour goes a long way. But, like all real world communities this state of 'nirvana' never exists unless some sort of enforceable code of conduct exists. The verbal assualts seem to be escalating lately on the part of some.......Where do we draw the line here on Breaktime? Lovin' life in the shadows of Breaktime,David
*This is only an observatory opinion not meant to stir any more do do up but it just seems like a bunch of egos on a real hardcore testosterone trip.There are many valuable lessons to be learned here (construction wise) and on the other side we have bickering and bitching with nothing to be had or learned. Sitting back reading this for a couple of days has brought one picture to my head, Picture everyone who is at the core of this (and a couple of others)standing around a jobsite carrying on this conversation (for lack of a better term). Picture also a couple of kids standing around telling each other something like "huh uh, you are!, No you are, huh uh, you are a bigger one, nuh uh, uh huh", get the idea? It's pathetic. All of you..you know who you are (you'll be the ones thinking I'm personally attacking you, and quickly charge back with something) stick your noses in the corner, and don't move until you think you can get along. It's a bitch being treated like a five year old, and the idea of people being banned for acting like kids kind of annoys me, from the standpoint that knowlege can't be gained from someone that's not around.I've been doing the stuff this forum was designed for (carpentry/construction) for a few years now, and have been around it a hell of a lot longer (3rd gen.)and have yet to meet a "Master Carpenter" (sorry Norm), or anyone who knows everything, but there are a few guys here that know a lot about what they do and that is a valuable thing we can all prosper from if there were less bullshit to filter out.Maybe it all did'nt make perfect sense, but the bottom line is, lower the ego standards, none of you know EVERYTHING.
*Given the login parameters of this site I feel any attempt to ban an agressive indivdual will fail. If the offender is so headstrong that simple warnings from Andy or the other (less impetuous) regulars go unheeded or garner another flame or less than courteous response then a ban (a software shutoff of name and password) will just cause the miscreant to type in another name.Then, until that person opens their big mouth and is recognized, they are still with us and able to continue on as before. I can't see Andy or any of the sysops having the time to monitor all the shenanigans.Joe asked how one should respond when someone posts crap. The simple answer is: Don't respond. The most effective way, IMHO, is for those who are truly concerned with ameliorating this problem is to completely ignore anything a problem poster has to say. One sided flames have no fuel and therefore no existence.If for some reason anyone disagrees with something I post and cares to expound I will answer, but if it is a flame - you get nothing - just the last word. More power to you.
*I think it's pretty revealing when some of the newer or at least, less frequent posters have seen fit to comment here. I think many people new to this site may find it very intimidating, and either just disappear or never post anything, which is too bad.
*Andy, here's my two bits worth...I have my own censorship tool, it's called a scroll bar. It didn't take me long to figure out that any message with more than twenty responses was probably a flame war and easily avoided. If I get into one by accident, I hit the back button. Simple. (I have to admit to reading some of them on occasion. It's like looking at a car wreck: fascinating and really sad.)Being a person in a position to wield power as you are, it's tempting to use it with all good intentions. However, I for one hope that you will leave that discretion to us. P.S. Thanks!
*Andy,FWIW, I started online in '92 on various bbs's and, mainly, Compuserve.Most forums on compuserve had a "no handles" rule, you had to post under your name. It was generally believed that this rule helped keep the flames down: its a lot easier to flame when one is anonymous (although the FHB has its share of flamers who appear to use their names, of course.) It would be a lot harder to verify identities on a web based forum, of course.Personally, I think there should more intervention; there are frequent personal attacks which detract from the usefulness of the board and which, I strongly suspect (as mentioned above) probably keep people away from the boards, many of whom might well have useful information to share.I suggest that when a personal attack is posted, (i) the message should be deleted, (ii) with a note to that effect posted in the thread (identifying the person who posted) and (iii) an email from you to that person telling him/her that such posts are in violation of the forum rules. Repeated offenders should be banned from the board.Granted, a large burden on you. Can the board be set up with volunteer moderators? (This is common on many web boards.)Censorship? Yep. Some stuff should be censored. Plain and simple. Bob
*Yup.
*Thanks for all of the commentary here. Anybody want to trade jobs for a few days? I sure could use some serious nail-banging time.Check out my post on the main board; Site Rules or Recalibrating the Balls of String. My hope is that restoring order will encourage a greater exchange of ideas. Perhaps some wallflowers will post. Maybe all of us can learn a bit more from each other. For this to happen, all of us need to think before posting. Did somebody insult you? Tough. Forget it and move on. That's how adults show their class. Responding in kind drags you down to the level of your detractor. Does someone disagree with you? Refute their arguments with facts, not vitriol. Or admit you were wrong if that's appropriate. You'll be respected for that.I'm done with flames, defined in the site rules as hateful or obscene language and personal attacks. If I spot 'em, you get a warning, and if I spot 'em again, you're no longer welcome in this house. I can't read every post on this board, though, so I'm asking for all of you to consider yourselves part of a neighborhood watch. E-mail me at [email protected] if the flames begin.Sincere best regards to all.Andy
*Steve, your questions are good ones for this forum, but your post has oddly been sent to this thread, that is dealing with a cyber social problem. I recently had one of my post sent spiraling out of control and it landed in some weird spot too. If my memory serves me right, I accidently checked the box entitled "Subscribe to this discussion by email". Is it possible that you did that too?blue
*Andy, I think you need to do what's easiest for you. I know that I wouldn't care to police every post. I wouldn't object to a bann after a single warning. I'd actually hate to see some of the most flagrant name callers banned, because I'm sure they have much to offer, but then again, maybe a simpe bann would teach them the value of politeness when entering a world of polite people. The jobsite isn't usually polite, but that type of behavior is usually restricted to the site, and only when "outsiders" aren't hanging around.I do hate moderated sites however, and have continued to visit this site do to the lighthandedness of the sysops. A heavy hand seems to stifle the "real" talk that goes back and forth. I actually was surprised that the level of antagonistic posts containing such foul language was allowed to continue and weren't deleted. I kinda figured you were finishing up that wall jack article or courting a new lady.On the fence,blue
*Jozo, That post is taken out of context after several hundred hateful posts by you and your daddy. If Andy was banning, Dennis would never have gotten around to adding his two cents. Come to think of it, that was Dennis' first post in either of the three hateful topics. His relatively tame commentary was an ironic reply to many profane derogatory comments.I'm amazed that you would start calling the kettle black.blue
*Jozo, you'vegot to be kidding about me following you around,beating etc. or whatever you said.You've obvioulsy got an inferiority complex. I usually read your post to get a laugh. When you post incorrect info, if someone hasn't corrected it, I chime in. When you post your obviously different techniques, I analyze them for their strengths and weakness' and decide if I can use them for my own purposes. That's what the exchange of information on this site is all about. Jozo, I have no personal anxiety about you or your techniques. My first exchange with you taught me everything I need to know about you. I read your Modern Framing website that day and decided that you are a character that loves to frame roofs and that you love to try to teach others your method. I don't think your method is easier and I find your website hard to read, but that doesn't make it inferior. Maybe it's just the right thing for some. Congrats to you for taking the time to do it.I do find it telling that you haven't finished the section on irregular hips though. That omission, or procrastination, indicates a flaw in the "system" that you have developed.Anyways, if it pleases you, continue to insult me in anyway that you need to. I really don't mind. I would like to warn you that it does reduce your credibility the same way that my posts and replys to you in the hip thread and ball of wacko string thread did. I really don't mind that my credibility is reduced though. After all, I'm a real person and this is just a cyber person. I can "re-create" myself just like the "Pretender" if my cyber credibility takes too much of a nosedive.Happy flaming,blue
*Dear Blue,
View Image © 1999-2000"He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich W. Nietzsche
*So Jozo, you said:i Well, all I can say is if you find comfort in Ed, Scooter, Blue and AJ. . . you will never be any better then you were yesterday. . . can I infer that if Dennis finds comfort in you or Gabe, he will be better than yesterday?I hate to have to tell you this but.... being better tomorrow doesn't center around agreeing and finding comfort with you, Gabe or anyone.blue
*Gabe, Aj's post was not hidden under a veil of rightousness. It was a flat out attempt to ridicule and embarrass Jozo. My perception was that he was trying to bring this venomous cancer to a head.I think he succeeded.Thanks AJ.And I serously doubt that Andy ever implied that AJ's thread had anything to do with construction techniques. I'm not surprised at all that you don't take his (Andy's) comments seriously though.blue
*Blue you're right in that it was a pure and simple, flat out attempt to ridicule and embarass Joe. However, your perception of the rationale is wrong, of course.But do stay tuned, you may learn something in spite of your bias.Gabe
*Of course I'm wrong Gabe. I couldn't possible be right. After all, do you remember one post or incident that I was right?blue
*Not offhand, but there must have been one, somewhere.Hang in there,Gabe
*Well, why don't we just start voting? No punch cards, just names.I used to come to this forum more frequently than I do now. But the two people who spoiled it for me were Martel and Fusco. I don't know about Dennis; maybe he's fairly recent. I don't like the idea of censorship any more than most, but if I were Andy I'd have a HARD time not banning Martel and Fusco. Each seems far more interested in mere aggression and pettiness than in a civil debate of techniques.But, what do others think?
*Mr. Lewis,
View Image © 1999-2000"He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich W. Nietzsche
*Mr. LewisI get at least a dozen Emails a week from people who read breaktime, asking for advice on some construction related problem, how many do you get, asking for advice?Did you come out of the woodwork to attack and make unsubstantiated statements about me or Joe?You are what you claim us to be.The original post was "Could we dispense with personal attacks and stick to exchanging ideas about construction".So far, only the whinners, have been doing the personal attack thing.Shame on you, hypocrite.Gabe
*OK....Look at the last three posts....Jim Lewis was civil...but hurting two peoples feelings....Joe was very civil...and asked for more info....Gabe was defensive...And pretty much attacked Jim for hurting his feelings(or in his mind, attacking him)...That's how most of us see it I would bet....We are all great people...We need to recognise that before we attack back...If ya feel like somone attacked first...the most magnanimous responce is to ask for more info as Joe just did....This is just my logical take on how flames start erupt,Love ya all especially my fellow pilot is Canada,aj
*Mr. adirondackJack,
View Image © 1999-2000"He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich W. Nietzsche
*Ah Geez, now even AJ is practicing without a license.Hope you're a better pilot.Gabe
*Aj, obviously the ones that insist on spewing vitriol do not understand how they can ruin it for others, even though they never had a personal exchange. Social misfits rarely see themselves for what they really are.blue
*Blue, let me be so bold as to take a wild guess here.You don't read what you write, right?Man what a sad bunch of coconuts.Gabe
*Mr Lewis and Gabe's posts were on a par. Joe actualy has the high ground here.This thing of seeing attacks where they are not, happens in both directions, gentlemen. I see no vitriole in any of the three posts in question. Calm down.
*Boys, Boys, Boys.Go to top. Read original post!darn I left my earplugs in the truck again.Steve
*Hogwash, Luka,The guy comes out of the blue and starts slinging garbage. I've never said anything against this guy and I'll be damned if I'll take it from him or anyone else.Time for a bunch of people to get off the judgement soapbox and get a life.Now let's get back to construction and screw the lynchmob.Gabe
*Gabe,Lewis made some disparaging remarks. He did some very much unneccessary finger pointing. You attacked him in return. Joe surprised the sh*t out of me by merely stating a fact. He gained points in my book by doing so.None of the posts, yours included, contained the sort of vitriole Andy has begun to look for. Where's the hogwash ?I may be judgemental, (who isn't), but I will bite the ass of a lynchmob as fast as I will that of anyone spewing vitriole.
*Point well takenGabe
*Gabe,You are missing the main idea...If you Gabe read a post as uncivil...then you have two worthy choices...ignore the post or respond civily....If you respond...you certainly ask if the post was meant as an insult or tell him your feelings are hurt and why...It is part of being a grown up is it not?...No good comes of abusing back does it?...Tell me seriously...If we all responded with your answers...I would think we would all just pack up and go offline....Help me understand how we all could act like that and get along...Near the stream giving it my best to have this post pass alls "test" as OK,ajAnd back to enjoying life..Is the deer population huge up your way as it is in NY?...They are tallking of a major need to thin it down here.
*Gabe..I just was called yesterday by an old customer that I sold an ultralight to years back...I still have a few and he may just buy one of them soon to rehab this winter...I miss flying...but am hoping to be back at it closer to home...which means a helicopter and or an amphibian. I was a pretty good pilot...Was taught how to loop by two Canadians when I use to work for a Canadian outfit in Port Colborne...Three of us actually were the only people in the world to loop ultralights for a few years... I have around a thousand hours in a couple dozen different rigs including chopper time... and fixed wing...and hang gliders...The old days....Did you say you still fly?near the stream and my wings,aj
*Joe, I said you were quite civil buddy...I quote me, "i Joe was very civil...and asked for more info.... "If we all asked questions when we thought we were being attacked, it would end right there.all on the same stream,aj
*AJ you keep on stirring the pot and watch it boil over you some day.Let it go. You're not in a position to judge anyone. You have no credibility. Stop stirring up the natives and all will quiet down. It always does.Gabe
*Gabe...Actually, crediblity is of a group nature...And Yes...I am stirring for civility...I am not stirring for hornets...And, I am yakking hunting and flying with ya...What else...I am more than ready to stop mediating divisiveness...I posted above about my flying...What about you?Being my fricken civilist as I paddle our stream,aj
*Not as often as I would like to AJ, but would like to get my floatplane rating in the next few years.So many lakes and so few roads,Gabe
*Gabe, We went over this some time back about flying, landing gear and Simpson anchor bolts and such. Those bolts DAMN sure ain't gonna' work on a floatplane and you know it! Just checkin' in.... Sam
*Hey Jack, flying was fun. Have my instrument rating, not current and haven't flown for fifteen years. I was going to try some acrobatics with an instructor, but never got around to it. However, I did spin a Tomahawk numerous times before I found out the tail had a habit of falling off, and I barrel rolled a Warrior going down hill at a pretty good clip. Well, what is altitude for if not to use it.Dennis
*Dennis...you're braver than I...I did some aerobatics in a citabria...and it is quite different than in a slow flying hang glider or ultralight...and was rated for such to(o)!Someday soon on floats again near the stream,aj
*As an amateur builder, I look forward to all the advise on this site. But this particular subject hasn't lent much useful information.
*As an amateur builder, I look forward to all the construction tips on this page. But this latest series of messages hasn't helped much. Thanks for the usually great advise and keep it up.
*so Paul, are you a professional psychologist or somethin? We could use the help.
*If you say something enough times, people start to believe it! Jeff
*naaaaaaa.
*Martel, A coupla months ago posted asking about best ways to provide adequate ventilation in a house I'll be building in a coupla years. Somehow, out of the blue, you responded with a lot of insults; I could probably find i t in the archives, if I felt like spending the time, but I'm sure there are regulars here who saw it.Fusco is right; I've never exchanged any words with him.My naming of you two was based, mainly, on seeing many of your posts here; there was an admittedly subjective feeling on my part that you are both petty and mean-spirited, despite the fact you have each made valuable conributions. I thought, obviously wrongly, that many others would agree that, at least, you both deserved regular slaps on the wrist, if not time-outs in the corner. Maybe I haven't spent enough time here, reading. Maybe both of you, in general, have more on the good side of the ledger than the bad. If so, my apologies to the group in general and you in particular.
*Lewis,Apology accepted.Gabe
*Mr Lewis,
View Image © 1999-2000"He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich W. Nietzsche
*Joe Fusco, I would like to see the final version of your porch rehab. I'm going to do something almost exactly like that to my house, hip roof and all.
*Mark,
View Image © 1999-2000"He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich W. Nietzsche
*Jim, no apologies needed. Your observations are quite accurate. The "Two Meanies" delight in insulting people. Sometimes they don't even bother to offer contradicting opinions. Basically, they are just mean spirited people.blue
*Geez Blue, just because you can't build as well as we do doesn't mean you should carry this grudge to your grave. Give it up.You need the time to learn quality when you build your little tract houses.Gabe
*I'll carry it too my grave Gabe. I could never match up to you.By the way, when was the last time you held a construction tool in your hands? Do you know what one is?blue
*About 6 hours ago...... I think it was a construction tool, it had a round blade with carbide teeth and used to cut wood, I think its called a skilsaw.Of course I have an unfair advantage over you in that I know how to use my brain as well as a saw and I'm a master at both.Keep trying to impress the DIY's blue, to a pro you're not even good enough to be average.Gabe
*Sam, I forgot about that sh*t.But listen, I intend to keep the nuts on the INSIDE of the floats and carriage heads on the outside.Man if you saw the fresh water fishing around here in Algonquin park you would try to shove a bathtub under a plane to land here.Gabe
*Gabe, Whew. Damn glad you're putting the heads on the outside, definitely don't want the airstream or radar cross section disturbed. That being said, sounds like the fishing is pretty sweet up your way. But I'm worried about the tub. I'm thinking fiberglass would be the only way to go on account of weight......Sam
*As long as I can impress blind diy'ers gabe, I'm happy.I know I'm not good enough to be average, and to a guy that has self esteem problems, this would be a big problem. But since I'm so dumb, my self esteem is intact. Have you any suggestions as to how I could elevate myself to average?blue
*Sam, don't worry about the weight of the tub, just don't forget to leave the plug in.GabeThere probably isn't a more peaceful camping site in the country. You can safely canoe for hundred miles, set up tent in spectacular scenery and fish to your hearts content.
*Sorry Blue,Couldn't resist the dig under Jim's post title.Gabe
*gabe .. i caught the irony there..... i was gonna get on you guys about no threads bein sacred...then i thought ...na... no threads are sacred....why should blodgett's be any different...so, in the spirit of diversity... screw the both of you ... bozo blue.. and gozo gabe......hah, hah, hahtake that blodgett...!
*Would that be those spandangled fluted stainless buglehead screws, or just the plain old coarse drywall screws ?
*Clerk....Would you please get me one pound of spangled screws...near the fan-dangled spandagled stream,aj
*And then, OFF with their philipps heads!Screwin' around, BB
*You missed Billy,We have robertson heads.Gabe
*You're not from around these parts, are ya? I always figured on you bein' square though.Convertibly and southernly yours, BB
*I reckon not.Follow the north star till your ass forms icicles after a wet fart and you'll be in the back yard.Gabe
*
I'm posting this here in "Construction Techniques" because this is where it seems relevent.
I remember when the "Alternate Uses for a Woodshed" thread was started by G.W.C. last year. There was so much anger and arguing on the board that lots of folks thought there should be a place specified for those who enjoy this type of thing.
I don't know if it's seasonal depressive disorder or what, but there sure seems to be a lot of anger and name calling on the board these days. Is there some way you guys could do this stuff in private, and post your building related threads in the main sections of this board?
The arguing is really distracting for those of us more interested in building. Thanks - Jim