I live in houston and I am a trim carpenter. I do such a variety of things that I never have know the going price of some of the work that I do. I asked this same question here at FHB and i was told then that I shouldnt get involved in footage rates; that I should price by the job. I generally do that but I would still like to know the going rate on some things so I can stay semi-competitive. Example:
I have a woman who wants crown installed in all of her house. 40 feet of it is about 25 feet up in her entry way. She also wants it painted. She also lives 25 miles out in the boonies, ( no stores within 10 miles). I want the job but I am REALLY REALLY REALLY tired of bidding a job and realizing midway that I underbid ,….AGAIN!!! On the other hand I don’t want to miss out on the work. (plus, she is sorta cute, he he). I am not asking for a free bid I just wants some input on factors that would affect the price. Honestly!, I am tired of underbidding. I mean damn tired of it. I have jacked my prices up 2 times when I was busy and didnt mind if I got the job or not. Both those times I didnt get the job. 80% of my jobs I realize that I should have added a little more to the bid. I always write it off as inexperience or a learning experience. Other contractors I know say that I am too honest and thatI should remember that i have a family to feed. On the other hand my repeat clients say that they like me because I am hobnest and fair; which explains whyI have repeat clients. Any help would be appreciated thanks
Replies
Cutawooda- the best I could do is tell you what we would charge for your project
and you might take it from there either rejecting or accepting our price and
the mechanics of how I came up with it. However I will tell you right off the
bat we do not sell our projects on the basis of staying competitive.
You either want or need us to do the project or not.
words I know what I want to make)
BUT having not see the project I still need some more information.
be set up easily in that space without damaging the floor or walls?
( You made no mention of your crew if you have one)
then install all our millwork and then schedule a post installation touchup
or final coat.
You shouldn't get "hung up" on linear footage rates but you have
to have an idea of a linear footage rate as a base price to which you can then
modify specifically for a project given conditions. In other words if the
typical crown molding price is $8.50 per foot for a normal room ( 8' to 10'
ceiling) then that price needs to be modified for the difficulty or working
up 25' on a scaffold plus the cost of setting up and taking down the scaffold.
"On the other hand my repeat clients say that they
like me because I am honest and fair; which explains why I have repeat clients."
--The real danger in that statement is you actually don't know whether they
like you because you are so "honest and fair" or because you are so
frigging cheap. Your repeat clients are never going to tell you the truth about
what they say about you behind your back. Translation: more often than not
"Honest and Fair" is client speak for "frigging cheap".
Fill me in and I see if I can help. When ya need this by?
"Do not go where the path may lead, go
instead where there is no path and
leave a trail."-- Ralph Waldo Emerson
Thanks for your response.
Actually, I am pretty good at trimming. I am a one man crew and got a good rep for doing quality work. The tall stuff I was going to get a helper and another 24 foot ladder. (ladders since there is a stairway obstructing). It is preprimed fj crown. 4 5/8
10 foot ceiling in the rest of the house. Front room she want a squares on the wall below her chair rail to immatate wainscotting. Probably around 12 of them.
I was going to prepaint everything as you do, install it, and then t-up.
total footage on the crown was around 200. 40 of it was 25feet up.
the wainscotting was going to take me around 2hours I figure. Layout about 30 minutes and 1.5 install.
Also, I need to invest in a larger chopsaw. My 10 inch doesnt cut 4 5/8. this is the third job I have recieved that wanted taller crown and its a pain in the *% without the right tools.
I figured the job at $1600.00 that is time and material. What do you think?
I am REALLY trying to be competitive. But I am really trying to "cross the line" and become a business man as well. And I am ready to cross over from "just making it "to assuming the a more responsible position and making some money. I have seen too many "hot shots" go out and experiment on a clients home only to fu.. it all up. I am so cautious about doing good work and casting a "Knowledgeable appearance" , that I found it easier to be a sub contractor and hide behind the skirt of the contrctor who hired me. And it is alot easier that way. Let them do the figuring. But I have seen others workmanship, and I have seen their bills to the clients, and I realize that I am doing better work and charging less money. I cant avoid the occasional handyman or hispanic that comes in and underbids me by 80% but I can learn from guys like you and avoid an empty bank account because I forgot to "pad " for the days when its a rain out or when the phone just doesnt ring. (The latter just happened for 2 weeks).
This was a lengthy post. Stay tuned,..next post I will go into detail about the toy truck my dad never bought me and how it affected my ability to toenail nails into yellow pine with out blowouts.
I know where your coming from. If your 10" saw is a compound type then it should cut the large size moulding. I have often used my 8.5" SCMS for very large 6"+ moulding. Sounds like you have at best 2 days work ( with two of you) plus a days painting (use latex). Paint with the final coat before you install and then touch up where required. I use two short pieces of moulding cut for inside and outside corners to give me a starting point on the wall and ceiling. This also gives me a place to measure to and cuts down on the re-cuts. You might find a long pole with help push the moulding up tight while you nail in place. And make it $1900
Hey Cutta, don't forget to figure in whatever you like to use for backing on those walls running parallel to the ceiling joists where there won't be any nailers in the ceiling. This is a remodel, isn't it, moving and protecting furniture, flooring, things on the other sides of the walls, cutting outside, cleaning up, etc, etc, etc also all add into your costs...
Good luck, BB
Okay cutawooda I've got your inofrmation and I'll do the estimate tonight after
I get back in from my workout.
"I figured the job at $1600.00 that is time
and material. What do you think?"
Off the top of my head that sounds real low to me but then again you'll have
to adjust for your local labor rate. I know from talking over on the JLC site
with Ed Williams who is down somewhere near you in Texas that the hourly wages
there are half of what we pay up around here (Westchester County NY just to
the north of NYC). Until later....
"Do not go where the path may lead, go
instead where there is no path and
leave a trail."-- Ralph Waldo Emerson
Okay Cutawooda, Nothing long with lengthy posts per se. Ya gotta say what ya
gotta say to get your point across. I came up with a Price of $1740, wainscoting
not included with my Costs coming in at $1130 (costs being Wages, Labor
Burden & Materials). For this kind of small project we then markup materials
30% and markup the labor subtotal 65%. The wainscot thing was unclear to me
so I ignored that in all my price considerations. This is for just the crown
stuff. I'll try and give you the break down of just how I came up with that
price as soon as possible so you can pick it apart and modify it. Just as a
point of reference there we two Labor Billing Rates I used in computing this
project see the table below.
Rate Pkg
WC Rate
Fixed OH
Labor Cost
Company Markup
Billing Rate
20.6%
16.8%
65%
Carpenter-A
$35.00
$7.21
$5.88
$48.10
$24.05
$79.40
20.6%
16.8%
65%
Carpenter-B
$25.00
$5.15
$4.20
$34.40
$22.36
$56.80
It going to take me a little while to write out and illustrate how I came up
with my price in HTML but hey that's a start.
"Do not go where the path may lead, go
instead where there is no path and
leave a trail."-- Ralph Waldo Emerson
I love this site! Where else canyou get this kind of support for a guy trying to conquer the world. My world anyway. Mr Hayes, You are a kind man. For going through that hassle for me. I had to drop her a rate yesterday so I bid the job at 1296.00 to hang it and 425 to paint it. She was floored!. "Whoa!" she said. " That is alot more than I was willing to pay". I told her she could peice-meal it and do one room at a time but hse hasnt called me back. She lives 22 miles away so I will have to tack on some for gas and miliage each time as opposed to once or twice. I know what will happen. She is going to shop around and find a guy that owns a Black and Decker chop saw and a pair of plastic saw horses. He is gonna say " Sure I hang crown. I can hang it with my eyes closed". And the job will look as if he did hang it that way.
I really didnt know you mark up material that much. I have been marking up about 15%. If a client really took time to think about all that is necassary to do a job, they would balk at the prices. When I went out on my own again I said I was gonna try to make $400.00 a day. Obviously, that creed fell by the wayside. I was only making 700 a week when i worked with Lone Star Remodeling in Webster TX. He took care of me though and threw me alot of side work. Luckily, I am moving to North Texas next week. My wife is an attorney and got a job up there and I have a chance to sit down and try to do things differently. Work the books a little better this time.
I Really really appreciate the help. Rest assured I will be contacting you again. You seem to have the knowledge that I am hungry for. You can run but you cant hide!!
Again, thanks to all of you
"Mr. Hayes" --Mr. Hayes was my dad.
I sign my name Jerrald but Jerry, Jerrald,... either one is okay by me. "You
are a kind man. For going through that hassle for me." I'm actually
trying to develop a method whereby I can teach estimating to other in my company
so working this out, explaining what I am doing for you, actually serves a second
goal in that it helps me figure out what exactly I've been doing all these years.
A year ago I asked here if anybody thought estimating was a craft and technique
that could be taught and I didn't even get an answer one way or another. I happen
to think it can be codified and taught so this only helps me learn how to explain
my techniques to others.
"I had to drop her a rate yesterday so I bid the
job at 1296.00 to hang it and 425 to paint it."-- Yikes! Well at
least we know the cost of living and thereby the wages are lower in Texas than
they are here so at least works in your favor. That $1296 includes this wainscot
idea of yours too? How much was there of it? Were not that far off from each
other I don't think in terms of real world comparisons
"she said. " That is alot more than I was willing
to pay"."-- They all say when they hear a price for the first
time. What are they going on anyway? Like she knows what it costs and takes
to do the job. Heck most of us don't even know. I need to have my septic fields
replaced so I asked another contractor for his septic guy and the guy gave me
his price and I was floored. It was twice what I thought it would be. We I got
back to my contractor friend and told him what his septic guy gave me he said
"Wow, that cheap huh?". I'm a building trade professional but still
I haven't a clue as to what septic work should cost so where did my first impression
come from? Outer space? I had no idea it was a great price. All I knew it was
more than I wanted it to be.
"I told her she could peice-meal it and do one room
at a time"-- Nah don't do that that cost you more doing it that
way. Instead tell her it will cost less per Linear Foot to do the whole house.
"She lives 22 miles away so I will have to tack
on some for gas and miliage each time as opposed to once or twice. That
distance is still within or standard traveling territory so I don't have any
surcharges for that. 35 to 40 miles is where I add surcharges or for anything
in NYC.
"She is going to shop around and find a guy..."--
Yeah maybe maybe not. If the next guy she asks says $2000 then you'll get the
job. If the next guy says $1000 your out of a job but at least your not paying
to improve her house!
"I really didnt know you mark up material that much"--.That
30% was a typographical error, sorry, we're even higher than that at %35. For
us that markup is 10% for our profit on the material and the 25% remainder goes
to an account for materials acquisition costs. If I or an employee have to go
and get material it is charged against that account. In this case the bill for
getting the material would have been $56.80 for one hour of Carpenter-B time.
(Remember when I posted the other day about getting
some FJ crown to test out? I looked at my notes for the day and they said
the trip to HD took 20 minutes, I was in there for 17, and the trip back took
21. That's 58 minutes or 1-hour) My actual material budget was $420 marked up
35%- (147)$150 to (567)$570. My estimating program rounds off those number automatically.
That meant the Materials Acquisition budget was actually $105 so on this job
we had a $48.20 surplus in that account budget. UNLESS OF COURSE THEY DIDN'T
HAVE ENOUGH CROWN AND WE HAD TO GO BACK AGAIN (but that never happens does
it?). Then we would have been short $8.60 so you can see how that all works
out in the long run sooner or later.
"If a client really took time to think about all
that is necassary to do a job, they would balk at the prices"--
Ya got that right. But then again if they can do that we they could also get
a job doing construction estimating.
"... I have a chance to sit down and try to do things
differently. Work the books a little better this time."--
I'm in the midst of something of a reboot here myself. I finally got the pricing
thing pretty much worked out within the last five to seven years but there
are a lot of other things I'm making some radical changes in business-wise.Never
stop sharpening the saw.
"I am still interested in your procedure, so if
you have it already please send it". Still working on it. I'll get
the breakdown and explanations here as soon as I can.
"what is WC and OH"-- WC-Worker Compensation,
OH-Overhead.
Maybe sometime tomorrow with that breakdown, good luck. --JJH
"Do not go where the path may lead, go
instead where there is no path and
leave a trail."-- Ralph Waldo Emerson
"Mr. Hayes" --Mr. Hayes was my dad. I sign my name Jerrald but Jerry, Jerrald,... either one is okay by me. "You
are a kind man. For going through that hassle for me." I'm actually trying to develop a method whereby I can
teach estimating to other in my company so working this out, explaining what I am doing for you, actually serves a
second goal in that it helps me figure out what exactly I've been doing all these years. A year ago I asked here if
anybody thought estimating was a craft and technique that could be taught and I didn't even get an answer one
way or another. I happen to think it can be codified and taught so this only helps me learn how to explain my
techniques to others. "
You are on the right track Jerrald. Being an Industrial Engineer I have spent way to much time setting up product costing programs for manufacturing companies. Some of these have been extremely detailed, almost too much. With manufacturing it is really easy to get very detailed because there are not that many variables, it is pretty stable production wise and you have lots of control over the production process etc...
I once was going to set up a costing program for finish carpentry (installing trim&hanging doors) but I never did. If I could watch a contractor do a job or two and then sit down with them over a set of plans for an hour or so I think I could develop a basic program in a couple days. Then I would have to spend some time on a couple more jobs and I could probably finish it in a week or so. I gaurantee after doing this I could come up with a few ideas to save time and money. Give me a few months and the skys the limit. Usually I just set them up as a spread sheet or database program so the user just inputs a few items of info and it would spit out the price to bid the job at.
I never did it because at the time I was thinking of getting into finish carpentry and was going to use this program for myself but never gave it a go. I get paid 10's of thousands of dollars to do this for companies so I just don't have much incentive to do it now for free. I can picture the program in my head though, maybe one day I will do it, who knows.
Being able to determine the cost of a product is what everyone wants to do but the true benefit is being able to refine the process itself. Concentrate on the process, study it in detail and ask yourself for every action/movement why you do it? what is the outcome? what are the alternatives? etc.. Then figure out how long each step takes to do, refine the process throwing out any action that is redundent, takes to long etc.. Look at travel time, time to aquire tools etc.... In other words go over every single movement you make and try to figure out ways to do it faster or with better quality. In the end you want every single action to be efficient, it must add value to the project and not be redundent. After this is done then you need to break the process down into time elements then once that is done it is a very simple process of adding in all the costs involved to determine the final price.
It is actually two processes. Improving the production process and then developing a costing program. I am sure someone who is a full time finish carp could just develop a costing program based on there current process but it is so much more beneficial to really go through the entire process. Not only will you be able to improve the process, but the costing program will be much more accurate.
Just being able to figure out what your labor and overhead are costing you is just a start. In the end what is really important is how long the job is going to take you to complete and knowing this by just looking at the job and/or plans. the more accurate you get the tighter those bids are. It is a lot of work upfront but after it is done you would be able to develop very accurate bids in very short time.
Good luck!!
Thanks 27SEAN, given your career as an industrial engineer and what you have
just written about here ("Improving the production
process") I'm wondering have you ever read The
Goal: A Process of Ongoing Improvement by Eliyahu Goldratt?
I think Estimating is all about what they talk about in the business world
as Process Mapping
What is happening.
Where it is happening.
When it is happening.
Who is doing it.
How the inputs and outputs are effected and modified by other factors
And then add to that a touch of Activity Based Costing
"Do not go where the path may lead, go
instead where there is no path and
leave a trail."-- Ralph Waldo Emerson
I have read that book many years ago. If you want to read up on different process improvement strategies do a search on .
Lean manufacturing
JIT (just in time)
Toyota production systems
Kaizen
5S theory
TQM (total quality managment)
All of these would fall under an umbrella called
World Class Manufacturing
Basically what you are trying to accomplish is that every single action that is taken is actually helping you accomplish your goal in the most time efficient manor and that no action is redundent and that you only perform these actions right before they are needed and that all material and tools needed is at point of use. Then you just continually monitor and improve the system.
You can also apply all these theories to your office operations. I have done a few jobs that where strictly office related, mostly accounting and planning/buying departments As a matter of fact you can apply this to just about any activity. When I first got married my wife would every now an then complain on how her responsibilities would take longer then mine and that maybe I should help her out by doing some of her work. I would tell her that the problem is that she just wasn't working as efficient as I was and then I would show her a few ways she could do something different to save time. She would get all excited and I would get a repreave for a little while and then sometime would go by and I would show her a few more ways etc....
ABC is a very good system so that you can concentrate on improving the activities that cost you the most. Sometimes though the activities that cost you the most are not the easiest to improve so you spend a lot of time trying to save money on one activity when you should be spending it on another. There is also management problems when the system is implemented because you have people who are in charge of certain activities but they are not in charge of the department that the activity is in so sometimes heads clash when the two do not agree on how to improve it.
Then we can get into process simulation programs to test all those improvements with out having to actually implement them in real life...................
:) :) :)
Have fun!
P.S.
I am still interested in your procedure, so if you have it already please send it. Damn, this is just like college.
The Crown Installation Estimate
(for this message I suggest opening this frame in a new window since the tables
I used in this explanation are sometimes wide than the frame)
First of all I view one of the the jobs of the estimator as a little more than
just entering numbers from an estimating book or database on to a spreadsheet
and then totaling it all up. I think the estimator needs to design how the project
is going to be handled. What's going to get done, in what order, how, and by
who. That's all because if it's not down the way he or she planned it then when
it comes time to perform the forensic Job Costing on the project you'd be comparing
apples to floppy disks. They're not even remotely similar.
In the case of this Crown Installation Estimate I divided the job up into three
hunks, chunks, quanta, phases or what ever you want to call then and estimated
each discrete hunk separately. I actually call them "pocket" estimates
to metaphorically imply that they are small easily handled hunks of information
that you could keep in your pocket. I try to keep them as a discrete contiguous
group of tasks that can be done as a whole. That helps later in both scheduling
the work and defining payment schedule parameters. You could also think of these
chunks as Work Orders. Essentially any client project estimate can be broken
down into several individual work orders.
For the purpose of estimating I divided this project up in to three chunks.
Set-Up & Preparation
The Trim Installation
Painting (final touch-up) and Takedown/Close-out
1. Set-Up & Preparation
I figured to do this project I would plan to have one my carpenters go off
to Home Depot to pick up some of their primed finger jointed trim. He would then
return to the shop and -lay the stuff out > sand the primer > spray back
and fronts with Benjamin Moore White Metal Wood Enamel. He's then done for the
day with that project and can move on to something else. Probably 4 hours of time
but I estimated it at 5. The Hourly Billing Rate for that carpenter (what I call
a Carpenter-B) is $56.80.
Set-Up &
Preparation
Matl
Labor
Total
MHrs
Costs
0
$172.00
$172.00
5
Markups
35%
0
65%
$111.80
$111.80
Price
0
$280.00
$280.00
5
Just a quick note here, These figures are copied right from my estimating
program and it automatically rounds of the Price line so 172+111.80=283.80 which
is then rounded off to $280
2.The Trim Installation
For the next phase I selected a Unit Cost from our Internal Cost Database
for the Trim Installation and entered it twice. For the first entry I filled
out the Quantity as 200 for the total Linear Footage of the Project. For the
second entry I entered 40 as the Quantity to account for the 40 feet of installation
that had the increased level of difficulty because of the 25' ceiling height
and narrow confines. Since the material was already accounted for in the first
line item I deleted the material cost from the second so it wouldn't extend
out in the calculations. Essentially I've charged twice as much for the labor
on the high section of crown.
Trim Installation
Cost Worksheet
Qty
Unit
Matl Cost
Matl Ext
Labor Cost
Labor Ext
MHrs
MHrs Ext
Crown, stock pine, 11/16" x 4-5/8"
200
LF
2.10
420
1.24
247.68
.036
7.2
Crown, stock pine, 11/16" x 4-5/8"
40
LF
--
--
1.24
49.53
.036
1.4
Cost Totals
420.00
297.22
8.6
Trim Installation-
Summary
Matl
Labor
Total
MHrs
Costs
$420.00
$297.22
$717.22
7.2
Markups
35%
$147.00
65%
$193.19
$340.19
1.4
Price
$570.00
$490.00
$1060.00
8.6
As an aside while doing this "chunk" of the estimate I knew that
the material budget line cost for the crown in this case was different from
what I was actually going to be getting. The $2.10 per foot was for a stock
clear crown and I was getting some pre-primed finger-jointed pine from Home
Depot for just $.89. For such a small project I didn't bother with making the
change in the price. I was installing a painted finished final product so since
either material would meet the performance specification I let slide and decided
the company would earn the excess on this project knowing full well that somewhere
sometime in the future I will estimate short and that excess will help cover
that in the future.
While there is 1% figured for Contingency in my company's Overhead Markup I'm
sort of padding that Contingency a little further with that $242 dollar difference
knowing that the slightest little thing can turn such a small project like this
into a money loser.
On a larger project I probably would have made an adjustment for the change
in the materiel from the Cost Book Item to what I was actually using. Regardless
of that I still however would have specified in my proposal that I was using
FJ trim and not have represented it as clear pine.
The carpenter actually doing this installation in this particular case is not
the same Carpenter-B @ $56.80 per hour that I used to set-up the job. I be sending
a Carpenter-A @ $79.40. That's because the total lineal footage of the project
should be able to be done in 8.6 MHrs meaning it was a one day project for one
guy. If it had been a sixteen hour project I might have sent two Carpenters
either an A-B combination or a B-B group but I wasn't going to do that for just
an 8-1/2 hour project. The A-B or B-B group probably could have done it all
in just 4+ hours but then they would have to travel to somewhere else for the
rest of the day and that wouldn't have been as efficient a use of their time.
I was doing the project in oil paint so I needed the overnight for any touch-ups
to dry. As part of the "Work Orders for this "chunk" would have
been instructions to fill nail holes and caulk as required so that on a final
visit the whole thing can be Touched-Up or another coat of paint applied. In
other word get as much done as possible so the remaining tasks to finish
the project can be kept to just one trip.
3. Painting (final touch-up) and Takedown/Close-out
For the final coat and touch-up and clean-up I've got that same Carpenter-A
@ $79.40 who did the installation going back there again to: apply a final coat
> fix any problems > clean-up > present the bill and pick-up a check
> then return clean brushes and put away any tools and equipment that he
or she wouldn't need for the next project. I budgeted that at five hours knowing
that it would probably take three maybe four.
Painting & Takedown
Summary
Matl
Labor
Total
MHrs
Costs
0
$240.50
$240.50
5
Markups
35%
0
65%
$156.32
$156.32
Price
0
$400.00
$400.00
5
The Complete Project Summary
Okay someone is going to say that I didn't include the cost of the paint putty
and caulk anywhere in my estimate and that's sort of true. That paint, the Benjamin
Moore White Metal Wood Enamel, is something that we use on all our woodwork as
kind of the default primer/paint ( it's self priming and builds up fast so I really
like it a lot). We buy it and the other stuff caulk and putty by the case in bulk
and not by the project. Since I knew I was over estimating the cost of the trim
I knew I was covering the costs of those materials and still making the contribution
to the Cost of materials account that any materials would be credited against.
The Crown Installation Project
Materials
Labor
Totals
Time
Cost
Price
Cost
Price
Cost
Price
MHrs
Set-Up & Preparation
$172.00
$280.00
$172.00
$280.00
5
The Trim Installation
$420.00
$570.00
$297.22
$490.00
$717.22
$1060.00
8.6
Painting & Takedown
$240.50
$400.00
$240.50
$400.00
5
$420.00
$570.00
$709.72
$1170.00
$1129.72
$1740.00
18.6
While that's just the way that I would have done the estimate for this project
I'm really entrusted in getting some feedback on the pros and cons of the technique
and my thinking. While it took a couple of hours to write out this explanation
of just how I did it it actually took just 15 minutes to do the actual estimate
either entering or looking up all the data in my estimating system. The extimate
numbers and client information are automatically entered in to a Contract form
so the only thing I had still remaining to do was to tweak the payment schedule
numbers however I wanted them to appear. Probably $600 with the $1140 balance
due on completion.
"Do not go where the path may lead, go
instead where there is no path and
leave a trail."-- Ralph Waldo Emerson
She called. Told me she had found someone else. Typical.
Well at least she called. Sorry about that but ya move on to better things then. Keep working at it. So what is it you really do or would like to do when you move?
"Do not go where the path may lead, go
instead where there is no path and
leave a trail."-- Ralph Waldo Emerson
I have really started to like bath remodels. My old boss used to send me in to tackle the whole thing anyway, so I started doing them on my own. I am almost 40 now. I got a late start in this business but I have the hunger of a 20 year old. I wish I would have started earlier in life. I do alot of different things but trimming is my love. Framing it my weak point. Framing also happens to be the one thing that is stopping me from being an all- out contractor. I framed my own addition. Had it dried in in 9 days. ALL me! I was spent physically but man, ...the bragging rights. Office, new master bath. I could do it for a living. Framing<.....My achilles heel. I should point out that I know above average in wall framing but roof framing is tough for me. Havent done it enough. I am a organization freak anyway, that is why I am interested in your methodology on bidding. I would like to meet someone like you down where I am at so I could pick up some pointers. My old boss (5 years) was a GREAT guy. Funny and personable. But his effeciency was shameful! Closet dope smoker and it showed. A memory like a brick. It wasnt unusual to get a call from in in the morning or even on weekends saying " hey, Mrs freeman is waiting on you" !!!!!!!what!! who is Mrs Freeman and why is she waiting on me?" "Oh, I never told you" . Or how about him giving bids to people on exterior repairs in the dark, with a flash light. Or being sent out to install a set of 5foot french doors and he had delivered 6 footer. "Can we make it work?" cmon.
I am currently living in league city, tx rigfht outside of Houston. Youcant swing a dead cat without hitting another contractor in a pick-up truck. I am moving to north Texas. My wife graduated law school and got a job up there. My family is up there and it is a smaller town. I have alot of contacts here but I can make new ones there. Thanks again for the help
I am right in the middle of a bath remodel and it is definetly a love/hate relationship. I like the variety of work but working in a small space, having to setup for so many small, short jobs and having to have such a variety of materials is a pain.
what is WC and OH
Start off high in your numbers, if she really wants the work done right, the price should be one that reflects a good wage for your time. consider how long the task will take, including drive time and aquisition of materials, and the add 15% on top potential unforseen problems,, 30% for your tax burden.. and then what ever overhead and profit you want to make above and beyond your wage... remember ..good quality craftsmanship is what is being provided,,try to find that for a cheep price..... Mark
"consider how long the task will take, including
drive time and aquisition of materials"--All good points Mark but--"and
the add 15% on top potential unforseen problems"--That sounds
way high for a contingency figure although certain project have higher contingency
concerns than others. I strive for more accuracy in my estimates so I don't
leave a lot to contingency and guess work. We normally figure contingency at
1% to 4%.
"30% for your tax burden.."-- Did you
mean Labor Burden? Taxes being just a part of the Labor Burden? There is a good
article from the February 2002 issue of JLC entitled Calculating Labor Costs
by Shawn McCadden that covers how to figure labor burden. You can use the search
function on the top left side of any JLConline.com
page to find it on-line there. Labor burdens vary according to trades so it
worth the time to figure it out specifically for your trades.
"Do not go where the path may lead, go
instead where there is no path and
leave a trail."-- Ralph Waldo Emerson