What do you tell a customer who wants to watch you ply your trade? Usually they watch for a while to make sure you know what you’re doing. In a positive light, it’s flattering, but…
Today I po’d one…he’s a retired, 81 yo parking garage builder…and has been watching my son and I as we build his fence the last couple of days. I normally like and respect him a lot.
Anyway, I got to a spot where I needed some solo “cussing” time and I broached the subject by pointing out how it probably makes his auto mechanic nervous when you’re watching him. He got the point, but was huffy for the rest of the day. I need to work on my people skills!
How do you handle this?
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I try to put them to work at thier highest potenel
I thought that giving him something to do would make him happy, so I asked him to pick out branches that would be in the way so we could trim them back...
It just encouraged him...and he wanted to supervise after that!
jencar
I just let them watch. It's not worth the trouble of telling them to get lost.
We had one old guy. He was always in the wrong at the wrong time.
Drove me nuts.
Just keep my mouth shut.
Rich
Rich did try to stay out of the way, though...
With me I just show them enough butt crack until they get scared or disgusted and leave. That might not work for you though.
Well, you can tell by the way I use my walk, I'm a woman's man, no time to talk. .
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dy3LM5_-i1Q&feature=related
The sight of a big hairy one will generally clear the area...:0
Wouldn't work for me...
A loud, off-key rendition of the most annoying song in history would work in some cases...(Bee Gees?)(PS, when my DH was playing basketball the other day, a kid asked him, "does your woman like to talk a lot?" He wouldn't tell me what he said to the kid, but I took it as a hint)
IMO, if you even suggest that you don't like being watched, you may give the impression that you've got something to hide. Not always easy, but you've got a retiree on your hands. Consider the fact that watching you may be the highlight of his day. I'd go easy on him.
"Consider the fact that watching you may be the highlight of his day."I'm thinking that would probably be the case whether he was retired, or not.=0)
Politics: the blind insulting the blind.
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Ever the sweet talker...
I'd pay to see a good looking guy digging post holes and drilling holes! ;)
So I'd have to pay YOU to watch me dig post holes ?;o)That would get real expensive, too. Probably take me a couple days to get one hole dug...
Politics: the blind insulting the blind.
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I held out as long as I could...
last year I had a 70 year old guy use binoculars to watch how I took care of a flashing and valley leak on his roof. He talked some but not a lot. Was a little unnerving, but hey, it's his house.
Couple weeks ago I looked at a kitchen remodel the 70 year old passed my name to, because "He was very thorough in the work he did for us."
Worst bozo to bother me was a neighbor with too much time and too many questions about his house. I was probably too patient. halfway through the bathroom remodel I explained that talking to him was putting me behind schedule and I couldn't afford to lose money on this job. He never came back after that.
Bowz
Patience,tolerance and kindness rewarded.
Once I was hanging a set of double french doors in an existing jamb for an older couple.
He actually followed me as I carried the doors out to plane and mortise the hinges, bore the locksets, etc. Never said a word. Tried the doors out when I was done and asked me to make a slight adjustment. When I got ready to leave, he handed me a $5 tip and told me he was a retired building inspector. I guess that was one of the best compliments I've ever gotten.
Depends on the situation.
I remember one time when I was a young guy , working alone busy finishing a 2 car garage slab my hand trowel. Like a rookie I went out on my knee boards and brought out only one trowel.
Old geezer happened to be walking by as I was doing this and stopped to watch , never said anything , just stood and watched me . As happens I stretched out too far with the trowel and couldn't recover myself without putting a hand down in the wet concrete.
Hearing a chuckle I turned around after I recovered myself and he was laughing, holding my other trowel in his hand.
" Noticed you forgot this young man , but I didn't want to seem like a know it all old timer and tell you so, so I waited until you made the mistake and hopefully learned something."
He then tossed me the second trowel.
Bought him a beer when I was done and found out he had been a finisher for a long time, I learned a couple of tips from him that day, most important was never ever head out onto a slab with only one trowel!
That's a great story!
Some of my fondest memories are of things journeyman said to me... (nuthin obscene) although no one ever said "when I nod my head, you hit it"
Once when I was having trouble beating a concrete covered slider out of a wall panel with a sledge hammer, an old carpenter told me "don't let it kick your butt" That always encourages me to keep trying...
Its all part of the game. Whats the difference between the old guy watching or working a large project with non-working foremen and safety supervision?
"Perfect is the enemy of Good." Morrison
That's a good point...
He may have been a project manager and it felt natural to him to watch his workers...
I don't mind if they watch. I usually make a gooder impression that way.
But if they start talking, after a sentence or three,I will sit down and tell them that I can talk or work, but not capable of both at the same time. It's their dime, which would they rather pay me for?
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.. just wait till your 70 plus, can't do much of anything anymore 'cept remember (on a good day) how you used to love working ..
.. do allot of outdoor work in a neighbourhood of retired folks, used to drive me crazy commenting on everything, till I realized my day would come soon enough, then I started putting lawn chairs out before I even started work, make them comfortable and in no time at all they are all asleep and you still get allot of refferals ..
Edited 5/13/2008 8:22 am ET by wane
Wise words, wane...
That day is a-comin for us all.
Next time I work for him I'll be more patient.
When they want to stand around and watch I call that 'Hovering', and I find it really annoying. What I do is crank up the radio and try my best to ignore them. It's also the last job I ever do for them.
When they want to ask questions I explain to them that I really need to focus on my work, that the time for questions is not while I'm in the process but at the beginning or the end of the day. Also, not at lunch time because that's my time, not theirs. If they think I'm out of bounds telling them this, then I mumble something about getting this job done and getting the h#ll out of there. Fortunately, all my customers respect my privacy when I'm working... or they won't be my customer for very long. --------------------------------------------------------
Cheap Tools at MyToolbox.netSee some of my work at AWorkOfWood.com
My biggest proplem is when i start working ALL the young goils come around and stare, Now thats not to bad but when they ask me to take my shirt off so they can check out my abbs i start to get annoyed Every time i bend over theres some sexist comment . They keep asking me to sing Italian love songs while i work Tell me Mr. Piffin how do you handle this, I dont want to hurt there feelings.
Quit taking jobs at the retirement centers?
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
sounds like your life is a real bitch.
wanna trade?
I, being wimpy, ugly, and totally unable to sing a note, have never needed to deal with that problem. Maybe you can get a T-shirt that lists the rate for each of those activities right up front.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
That works if you get paid by the hour...
Thats the problem. I like to talk to my clients but then I cant work. I like how you nip it right away. Very polite and tactful, i'll have to try it next time I get a talker.
Saw a sign in a mechanic's shop:
Labor Rates:
$50/hour
$75/hour if you watch
$100/hour if you help
Pete Duffy, Handyman
$150/hr if you want me not to use profanity..
is that topless?
I bet I could find a women to dig post holes topless for 150 an hour...
hmm... I bet i could sell it at 200 an hour and make some cash.
Just tell them your insurance policy states that anyone within 50' of the jobsite has to wear Osha approved safety glasses.
Then reach into your toolbox and pull out the old scratched-up dirty ones that you " forgot" to throw out.
If that doesnt work, ear protection, hardhat , respirator....
yeah......the insurance think works......'specialy for kids and old helpers.
Folks that like to watch, most of the time, it's either you or tv poker, baseball, some cooking show.............the point is, you've become "the show".
Enjoy it.....consider it practice for when the cameras come out to tape you for one of those "this old house" shows.
Now if they start asking questions about how the work is done, I remind them they have entered into the region of consulting and that my rates are double.............
Most of it boils down to curiousity, boredom or suspicion..............it's the latter that pisses us off.........but what does that mean? 80% of the time, it means we didn't spent enough time before the work started selling the whole package........the other 20% are just suspicous coots.........
Good point. I don't think my liability carrier would understand if the homeowner broke something during the process of giving me a hand.
It's come up a few times the one I remember the most was an older retired gentleman who just had to help.
We were replacing his cabinet doors and drawer fronts with new, job was going in the tank and I was there finishing up "after hours" b/c the carpenter had a personal commitment. The job was going to be done that night come hell or high water.
Anyway he was over your shoulder constantly, getting tools, what ever. He decided we needed to make templates from old file folders for each drawer we installed so we would know where to put the screw holes for the pulls.....
So he made one... I told him what a great idea they were and sent him off to make the rest.
By time he was done I was finished mounting the last few drawers and had all but one pull on..
Told him I just got caught up in it and used his last template.
That's the only success story I have for getting some space, most of the time it's just a PITA.
It's pain when the HO hovers but I just deal and move on. What's more of a pain is when the HO wants /offers you their kid to help when they get home from school so he/she can learn a few things. And the kid is standing over in the corner looking down from their Ipod silently mumbling to themselves "DAD !!!!!"and shuffling their feet. I just had that variation on this theme come up recently. So I just told the HO that by the time the kid gets home from school I'm pretty much done for the day cleaning up and ready to head for the barn. Haven't seen the kid once.
BjR
I know you don't have kids yet...but you've already somewhat mastered the practice of delegating "busy work"Maybe some kind of "busy work kit" would be appropriate for customers who want to be involved in their project...Unless they feel you should subtract their labor hours from your fee!
Poor old guy, you are probably the most exciting thing that has happened in years and you cold shouldered him. Show a little love.
Beat it to fit / Paint it to match
LOL...I kept reminding myself that watching someone set fence posts (as well as watching paint dry) is high drama when you're 81...when you come from an era of lo-tech entertainment! But then, he also comes from a time when ladies didn't cuss like sailors when something wasn't working out.
could always un-button a few extra buttons or wear something really tight...
Yeah he'd be standing there but probably mostly quiet or babbling to himself.
Flip side is you give him a heart attack and feel bad over it.
By the way, when did you get back here? Havent seen you in a long damn time
It's rez' fault...
I've been running my own business since the illegals took over the carpentry field here in SoCal...
There's still homeowners who want someone doing their projects that speaks English
(I guess a 50 plus skinny old carpenter lady is a hottie to an octagenarian)
If T&M job, every time they ask a question, set down the tools and answer it. Then pick up the tools and go back to work.
Or, make a small mistake on purpose and say, "Darn, I guess I shouldn't talk and work at the same time."
"I can't talk and work at the same time" I'm glad I'm not the only one with that problem...
Must have something to do with the mechanical part of the brain not working at the same time as the verbal part
People who get paid to talk don't seem to get it...
I say let 'em watch. Remember, a person who is liked can do no wrong. A person who is not liked can do no right. You can be the best but if they don't like you they won't work with you...I've got one like that...guy does excellent work but tough to take.
I worked for a guy in his 80's. I did several projects for him, and he paid well. Actually, I would probably have done most of the work for free, but he insisted. When I gave him a price at the end of a job, he would usually give me about twice as much as I asked for. His wife had passed away, and I think he enjoyed the company.
I think I was on about the third project when he got into my business a little too much. He usually questioned why I did this or that or chose a certain piece of wood. He would bring out a certain piece of wood from his barn now and then for me to use in a certain area. He didn't like to throw things away. He had lots of wood scraps in the barn.
Unfortunately, whenever he brought me an old piece of wood, it caused me extra work and sometimes caused me to compromise my quality standards.
Anyway, I got a little short with him and he left me alone for the rest of the day. I felt bad, but the next day things warmed up again. He backed off a little, and everything worked out. He usually made lunch for us, and I spent much more time on lunch than I normally would. Usually, my lunch takes about five minutes, including getting the food from the car and cleaning up.
I really enjoyed working for (with) him and liked him as a person. He brought my wife flowers and vegetables from his garden, and he gave us his Sunday paper when he was done with it. He would play Christmas and some other religious songs on his guitar for me while I worked sometimes. He was quite good.
A couple of times a year, I go back out into the county to say hello. He still has some work for me to do, but I have not had the time to get out there for that. I am glad that I got to spend the time with him and make his and my days better. I just wish I hadn't gotten short with him that one day.
I think the old gentleman likes having someone around to talk politics, etc. I charge him less than my other customers, too ($20/hr). He also wanted to pick out the wood for the fence posts and boards. I guess that having a little control and making decisions gives your life purpose.
My retired father in law hates not being a productive, contributing citizen any more.
You wear a shirt that says:
"Rate: $40 per hour . . . . . . $80 per hour if you watch"
Insert your own rate.
I like the "Of Course I Don't Look Busy, I Did It Right The First Time" shirt, but I'm getting too old to wear one.
I think the grey hairs overide the T-Shirt as why people assume I don't look busy.
If you need a few minutes alone, hand the everpresent homeowner, who I have come to designate as "The Gargoyle", a 4' level and after checking your work, get him to check the rest of his house.
An obsessive compulsive homeowner will be gone for hours."Perfect is the enemy of Good." Morrison
Gets right to the point...where can I get one?
Wish I knew. I just made that up about putting it on a t-shirt. Would be good to have one though. I know my kids have sheets you can print onto using your computer and then you can iron whatever you print onto a tshirt.
Dang kids and their computers...
My son has a shirt that says "Keep watching, I might do a trick!"
That'd do.
or how about "if you can read this you are too close"
LOL or "Don't just stand there, pick up a shovel!" (or Lean on a Shovel)
That would be a good one especially if you were doing interior work like installing trim. I could see a homeowner really doing that and then asking you what they should use the shovel for. LOL
To hit the carpenter with when the miters don't fit together right...
Try "White Castle" for lunch, you may be surprised how quickly the HO will leave.
I dont mind watchers as much as talkers. I cant get any work done if everytime I need to cut a board you're telling my a story about your brothers, babies first step. I may or may not be interested but I need to get your job done.
When a client wants to watch, help or be involved, I'm all for it as long as there's no confusion about who's in charge.
Some of these experiences have turned out to be very rewarding and the best advertising I've 'done.'
That said, it does take a lot of effort to put up with some.
Like I said, It's your dime.
I also agree with waters who said some good advertising happens in the exchange. That is where you get to know that I know what I'm doing
Welcome to the
Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
where ...
Excellence is its own reward!