What is your method of cutting and fine tuning scribe lines, and why do you prefer doing it that way?<!—-><!—-> <!—->
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When cutting baseboard scribe lines, do you use a handsaw to cut close to the line, and a low-angle block plane to fine tune it? Why do you prefer doing it that way?<!—-><!—->
–T
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Replies
I rub it on various parts of my rusty ol' truck.
Forrest
I rub it on various parts of my trusty old puck.Seriously, I usually hit it with my hand held power plane
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Man, I didnt know that my pickup is actually a scrib'n truck. Its got enough rust for an entire subdivision of scrib'n.
Live by the sword, die by the sword....choose your sword wisely.
LOL - twice"it aint the work I mind,
It's the feeling of falling further behind."Bozini Latinihttp://www.ingrainedwoodworking.com
Recently been introduced to the belt sander. Last scribe I did was a cabinet filler. I freehanded it on the tablesaw and finished up with the belt sander.
Worked great.
-T
You saw my videos on the right angle grinder? same thing for scribes.
If the scribe needs a lot removed I will use the circular saw on it first (blade tilted for a good back cut) then clean up with either a block plane or right angle grinder.
If scribing something to stone or very irregular area its pretty much all grinder, counter tops - skip the belt sander and go directly to the grinder.
Doug
Jigsaw, then belt sander.
If it's really critical, or if the material's really expensive, I'll cut a plywood or OSB pattern first, tune it by hand, then do the finish piece with a flush-cutting router bit following the pattern.
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not brought
low by this? For thine evil pales before that which
foolish men call Justice....
Minor hi-jack here, Dino --What make jigsaw do you use? I've got a DeWalt and the blade wanders now and then, usually at the start of a cut.I expect the problem lies in the hand on the saw, but was wondering.Oh -- Kid's back from Iraq. Bhog be thanked. No casualties for his unit on that deployment.Leon
Hallelullia on that homecoming, Leon. Good news to hear.
I've got a older Porter Cable jigsaw; made before they went to China. Heavy metal case; uses a hook-end blade (which I have trouble finding these days) or a universal bayonnet blade (if I swap the clamp 90º).
Yeah, the blade on a jigsaw wanders, but in my experience usually only at the bottom of the cut. In anything thicker than 6/4 stock, I often get a bit of automatic 'back cut' bevel whether I want any or not. I think you can lessen this effect by going real easy as you cut, but I consider a portable jigsaw a rough tool. I don't expect to get a finish-grade cut out of it.
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
Good, I'm not the complete incompetent I was feeling.I'd cut wide of the scribe and at the start (5/4 stock) the damn blade wandered. Sanded most of it out. If Lisa bitches, I'll hit it with a block plane, all it will do is tighten the radius a bit.In retrospect, I should have whacked it in octa or hexa cuts and taken more passes with sander and block plane. I was in a hurry, and we know what happens then.Thanks, Dino -- and I hope thing are going well for you.Leon
If you want a jigsaw that will cut square, get a Festool.
I've tried any number of jigsaws. I still have a Porter-Cable like yours down in my basement (want a spare?), I've used a Makita, DeWalt, and also owned a Bosch.
None of them held a candle to the Festool. With the proper blade, and the blade guides set properly, I CAN cut 90 deg. to the face, even in 8/4 oak.
Yeah, its pricey. But so is my time futzing with the cut from one of those other jigsaws.
If it was almost anybody else but you saying that, I'd think they were fulla. But I still have trouble imaging it. A jigsaw blade that ain't flexible is almost a contradiction in terms.
What kinda kerf is that Festool taking out of the wood? ¼"?
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
Only about 3-32"
I'll bring the Festool out to Doud's this summer, if'n yer interested. I'm sure he's got some wood we can "borrow" to cut up.
The Festool blade I use for the cuts in heavier stock is a little thicker, and a lot stiffer, than the Bosch blades I use most of the time.
I'm impressed what i hear from you. I don't think of you as someone who exaggerates and Festool is good stuff!I cut my tails for my house to look much like the style Forrest shows, but from 4x8, with a Bosch and a 6" blade. Very little wandering. I found that a lot was in the patience of the guiding hand
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Yeah, even with the Festool, you have to take your time cutting heavy stock.
But its much easier than with any other jigsaw I've tried.
My dad had this POS Craftsman jigsaw when I first started working. I don't think that thing could cut square in 1/4" plywood. I've progressed quite a bit since then.
Yeah, you really have to be patient with a Sears or a B&D
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
>>The Festool blade I use for the cuts in heavier stock is a little thicker, and a lot stiffer, than the Bosch blades I use most of the time. <<I buy the Festool blades for my bosch. They are cheaper than most of the other blades out there. Don't like my Bosch. Wanders in the curves pretty badly.Oh, and I usually freehand on the table saw, with the blade set to a 5 degree back bevel if it occurs to me to do it, and finish with a block plane. Though I have used many of the other methods mentioned as well. And I am very respectful of anything with a cutter on a motor, ever since my skill saw kicked back and took 54 stitches worth of flesh and the feeling in two fingers out of my left paw. I do the pool-cue stance like basswood. I never stand in the line of fire of potential kickback.There is one really dangerous move that I occasionally use on the table saw, and that is this: I will on very rare occasions feed a piece in from the outfeed side for an inch or two or three. It puts me in cold sweat to do it, but sometimes it's just gotta be done. Think door head casing with an integral beaded edge...Steve
I will on very rare occasions feed a piece in from the outfeed side for an inch or two or three. It puts me in cold sweat to do it, but sometimes it's just gotta be done.
Why not just use a hand saw? For an inch or so it won't wear your arm out. (I know, I know; I never think of my hand saw till afterwards either, LOL....)
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
Great saw - using mine all day to pergolate 8/4 cypress beam ends. Hook-end blades and all.
Forrest
Edited 6/2/2008 5:44 pm ET by McDesign
Yep, mine PC's a work hog. Grunts through about anything without complaining.
I remember burning out my poor lil' Rockwell cutting quadruple-stacked ¼" beaver barf for some Dino-nasty HehV-DooT anti-bug&animule soffit vents. Took all morning to cut 16 pieces for one soffit and then the motor gave up the ghost and the bearings seized with a shriek that broke the glass outta the houses on both sides of me and a great mushroom cloud erupted into the sky bearing a humongous red R for ROCKWELL
Ran down to the local hware at lunch and bought the PC to replace it. Came back, ate my Dagwood and Mae West, and cut out the other 15 pieces in about 45 minutes.
Musta been the new blade that came with it, ya think?
Dino--Remembering the old green Rockwell that died so hard....
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
Here's 6 of 14 -
View Image
Forrest
Edited 6/2/2008 7:14 pm ET by McDesign
What? You don't have a big whacking shaper bit to cut that profile cross-grain in one pass? Shame on you....
Dino--imagining a Sikorsky shaper.
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
Yep, but I just can't lift it alone. It has a 5x4.75" (Chevy) bolt pattern, and I just jack up the truck and take off a wheel.
Forrest
ROAR!
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
Bosch Jig saw, as they are a great tool, and have a great assortment of blades, then the belt sander.
I've gotten used to running most scribes freehand on a table saw (if set up). Jagged cuts with a jigsaw-fine tuned w/belt sander or grinder.
Recently on tall kitchen cab wall scribes I used the festool guide, moving the guide as the line changed direction. On the tall fills with maybe 3 or 4 straight changes, this worked well.A Great Place for Information, Comraderie, and a Sucker Punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
http://www.quittintime.com/
Wait a minite!Festool has a guide?
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Well I figgered if I said '' cutting system '' people would have a hard time understanding.
or
yes, and a very nice man he is.A Great Place for Information, Comraderie, and a Sucker Punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
http://www.quittintime.com/
I agree with those who said jigsaw and belt sander. If the scribe line isn't too wiggly, can use a cordless circular saw for the rough cut and then belt sand. Reasons?--easy, tools readily available, works well. You can do a slight back bevel too with the sander.
MSA1,In your post you said that you 'freehanded it on the tablesaw.' This is a terribly dangerous thing to do. I hope you'll invite people with much more experience than me to give you some input on this. I don't mean to be the resident 'grandma' but it sure seems like a great way get beaned by a bad kickback.
If it's above your comfort level that is fine, but just because it scares you doesn't make it unsafe for somebody else.
I've free handed thousands of cuts with my table saw. I don't think it's any more unsafe than cutting with a circular saw. Only difference is the blade is sticking up instead of down.
If you try to make a 90 degree turn in the middle of the cut you might have a problem, but that's the case with any saw.It's not too late, it's never too late.
I don't really have a dog in this fight, but I don't like to see potentially dangerous advice go out to possible novices without a little note of caution. Table saws are noted for causing injuries--at least I am more aware of their potential for causing injury than the potential of many other tools, including circular saws.
Freehanding with a circular saw has less problems because the user is controling the saw and if it kicks back, he (we hope) has been careful to keep his body parts out of the way and only has to control the saw. With a table saw, the user has to manipulate the countertop or whatever he is scribing, keep it from binding the blade of a probably more powerful saw, keep himself out of the way of the offcut that may be propelled violently toward him, keep his hand away from the blade and so on.
That said, a "jigsaw" (saber saw) is probably the safest, as it is running slower, won't kick back, stops quicker, has less blade width in the cut so it can make tighter radiuses without binding, and so on.
More power to you if you can use a table saw to freehand scribe cuts, but it's maybe not for everyone.
I wasn't giving advice. I was stating how I do things. In the end we are all accountable for what we do.
If someone wants to sue me for a statement on this board, let them try. Until then, I'm not going to let that dictate what I do or say.
I don't see how cutting freehand on a table saw is any different than cutting with a circular saw, or anything else for that matter. If you do something stupid with a utility knife it can kill you.
I'd bet that more stitches come from kitchen knives every year than table saws.
If you don't feel safe, don't do it. Period. No different than anything else. Safety is a subjective thing. I've seen roofers walk 12/12 roofs 150' in the air. I wouldn't do that for any amount of money, but from their perspective it is safe. Who am I to argue?It's not too late, it's never too late.
Do you work with any prefinished baseboard? A lot of mine is. Dragging the shoe of a circ saw over it would not be kind.But I also wonder how the guys who try to scribe with a hand held circ sa try to control the wood from kicking out and away. I find better control with the TS for this, and I keep the good side up so it doesn't scratch.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Do you work with any prefinished baseboard? A lot of mine is. Dragging the shoe of a circ saw over it would not be kind.
But I also wonder how the guys who try to scribe with a hand held circ sa try to control the wood from kicking out and away.
If I'm scribing a piece that goes in-between the wall and a tall cabinet (like a 80" scribe for eg)I either clamp the scribe down or nail it down. I then take my circular saw and hold it at an angle, thus allowing a back cut,no need to tilt the bed for this, your not trying to make a pretty cut. I can cut right up to the line or at least pretty damn close. I then tune up the line with either my hand plane or right angle grinder. Never once dragging anything across the finished scribe!
I have ran scribes, casing where it meets the wall in a corner, numerous other things across a table saw freehand, just pay attention, this should be the advice for running any power tool, further more, if it don't feel comfortable for you to do, don't do it!
That last paragraph wasn't for you Piff, for all the novices out there.
And Sveney, your post was dead on!
Doug
Edited 6/1/2008 6:18 pm ET by DougU
Sven hit the mark dead on.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Too bad none of us have any videos. It would be a whole lot easier to see which technique is the best. Oh well.-T
which is best depends on a lot of factors. There is no best for every situation and every person.Depends how much workspace is available and what tools you are most comfortable with.For instance, the TS that some are not comfortable using freehand. Or the only space available to set one up might be out in the driveway.Maybe the guy who uses the belt sander just tore up his last good belt for it, or maybe the blades for my power plane went bad...So we pick up the tool that works. It is good to be versatile.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
If you want to free hand with a table saw, that is fine with me. But it is commonly accepted that it is a dangerous practice, for good reason. If you want to argue that with your superior skills, you are somehow better, safer and smarter than everyone else, go for it.
It is very different than cutting with a circular saw. For one thing, circular saws are designed to be used in that fashion. Secondly, with a circular saw, you have the motor between you and the blade. Depending on the size of the piece, there is often not much between your hand and the blade, except for a little wood. Free handing on a table saw increases the chance of a kick back greatly, as well as stuffing body parts into the blade. To argue otherwise is stupid.
But your skill level is so great, that these rules do not apply to you. Even though these common sence guidlines where developed by people who have been working in the field years longer than you have been alive.
Edited 6/1/2008 12:41 pm ET by McMark
When the safety police come out it's difficult to defend any practice without sounding like a reckless cowboy.Freehanding scribe cuts on the table saw is SOP for me, and it is "common practice" among every professional carpenter I have worked with. I know the limits of this kind of cut (you scribe gentle curves such as baseboard to floor-not scribe cuts against stone walls).Every answer on this board is not for novice carpenters.I resent it when others posters feel the need to say certain advice shouldn't be given out because some novice might read it and hurt himself. Power tools are dangerous. Novices should stick to hand tools or hire out their work if they don't care to invest the time it takes to learn how to safely perform procedures such as this. Anyone here see what happens when a circular saw kicks back, and the blade guard doesn't retract before flesh meets blade? I have, and I would never tell a novice to scribe cut with a circular saw. I would never tell a novice to scribe cut with a grinder. A novice can get a terrible abrasion if he tries to scribe cut with a belt sander. I've seen a guy split a finger with a jig saw, so novices beware!In fact to all you novices out there-scribe cut with hand saws only, or maybe better yet with a course file. Sure it may take a little longer, but at least you'll be safe.John Svenson, builder, remodeler, NE Ohio
Even though these common sence guidlines where developed by people who have been working in the field years longer than you have been alive.
Wow. Your wit and intelligence are unmatched.
I formally retract everything I've said. Your pointless argument has convinced me I'm too young to know anything. It's not too late, it's never too late.
I bet he doesn't have a proper blade guard, splitter and anti kickback palls on his job site table saw.I usually will take the big meat off with the table-saw and finish with a hand plane.but I have been known to use a circular saw, a grinder, belt sander, jigsaw a sanding block and even a utility knife.You gotta get it done some how....
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"After the laws of Physics, everything else is opinion" -Neil deGrasse Tyson
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If Pasta and Antipasta meet is it the end of the Universe???
Do like I do-
freehand on the table saw, and don't tell anyone that you do so.
That way, the OSHA narcs won't complain
I normally don't get involved, but I'm bored today.It's not too late, it's never too late.
Superior skills kill.
I treat my power tools with great respect.
Life is not always safe. Having said that, I dont invite danger, but I think that careful respectful use of my tablesaw is acceptable.
Edited 6/1/2008 3:34 pm ET by MSA1
I also scribe relatively strait lines with a table saw...especially cabinet fillers. I use a Zen-like concentration and a very smooth motion, like lining up a shot with a pool cue...left hand holding the front edge of the table saw and acting as a fence for the board being scribed...right hand like pushing the pool cue in slow motion...finish with a rubber Vermont American "push stick."Tricky profiles scribed with a RAG with sanding discs (hogged out with table saw or power planer first)
Some here had a tag that read:measure with a micrometer, mark it with a crayon, cut it with an axe....and then theres always the old reliable:cut the bulk of the waste with an adze and finish it with a block plane.Then if will look half adzed...badoom boom tishhhh.
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"After the laws of Physics, everything else is opinion" -Neil deGrasse Tyson
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.
.
If Pasta and Antipasta meet is it the end of the Universe???
I would not want to fight over it, since it is true that freehanding with a TS can be dangerous, but I have done it as long as I have been using a TS and never saw it cause a problem.Maybe I'm just standing in line for my next injury, maybe not. Definitely not the best idea to recommend for novices tho - or for having a setup with a window in the background.But of the things that can lead to kickback, I don't see freehand shaving a hair off a board as one of them.The reason though that I use a power plane is to avoid the use of two tools for one job. Most of these replies call for using a saw of one kind or another to make the cut close, then fine tune with a block plane . That is two steps, two tools, and two positions. Most of my trim setups involve a folded leg table with the chop saw on it and a table clamp at one corner. After I scribe the wood with the pencil, I flip it into position, and clamp it, then grab the plane and worry the material off. I can do that faster than using two diff tools and too diff setups.If it is only a hair I do it with my block plane while still on my knees.I'm thinking baseboard here.When it comes to scribing stone or logs at walls, we are on a whole different line of thinking.If it is a lot, I might lay it over the TS if that is handy
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
I used to think the same thing, that free-hand cutting on the TS was an accident waiting to happen. And if you're not careful, it could be.
I only freehand with the grain, not cross-grain cutting, which would invite disaster. And only relatively straight lines. If I have to cut a circle, I'll use a jig saw. But for ripping when the cut line is not parallel to en edge, if done with care, freehand works great.
"I am the master of my fate, I am the captain of my soul." Invictus, by Henley.
I think you can freehand pretty safely on a portable job site table saw. Hardwood flooring guys have been doing it for years. I don't think it's wise on a real shop size table saw with power. John
I only freehand with the grain, not cross-grain cutting, which would invite disaster.
Could you explain this? I rarely freehand on the table saw, but when I do, I will rip or cross-cut as needed. I am extra careful when cutting ALMOST with the grain because the blade will want to follow the grain rather than my desired line.
I watched a guy cross-cut a piece of pine 1x free hand. As he tried to guide the work thru the blade, the blade bound and shot the piece into his gut. I had to turn off the saw and help the guy off the floor. My only theory is that the blade is more prone to binding when cross-cutting than with ripping. That's my theory, unscientific and unproven, and you're welcome to do with it as you please : )
Be safe.
"I am the master of my fate, I am the captain of my soul." Invictus, by Henley.
"the blade will want to follow the grain rather than my desired line."Sounds like you need a sharper blade
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
or turn the board around...planing 101: Plane with the uphill grain.
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"After the laws of Physics, everything else is opinion" -Neil deGrasse Tyson
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If Pasta and Antipasta meet is it the end of the Universe???
I thought he was talking TS blade following the grain
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
He was.
"I am the master of my fate, I am the captain of my soul." Invictus, by Henley.
I was. Even with a sharp blade, I find that the blade will tend to follow the grain a little bit if a board is being cut just slightly off from parallel with the grain. It's a very subtle effect and it doesn't happen with tight-grained wood (like maple), but I notice it with pine where there are alternating soft and hard growth rings.
It's not really a big deal, but it is one of those times that I'm extra careful when making freehand cuts on a table saw.
maybe turn the blade around???
was someone using it for vinyl???or is is one of those ultra mega micro thin kerf blades that can rip tin foil on edge??.
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"After the laws of Physics, everything else is opinion" -Neil deGrasse Tyson
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If Pasta and Antipasta meet is it the end of the Universe???
I was waiting for you.
Did I mention that i'm also naked and drunk while doing this?
Finally, I make sure the safety glasses are neatly put away so I wont damage them with flying debris.:>)
Whatever is the best suited saw available at the time to remove the bulk, if necessary, then the angle grinder with sanding pad to fine tune it. Alway back cut (or back sand in this case) for a tight fit.
I rarely use a block plane for scribing.
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See some of my work at AWorkOfWood.com
I don't think there's any "right" way. For these arthritic old paws of mine a belt sander works the best; Porter Cable's new 371 belt sander is just the ticket- you can run it one handed. A guy I work with is a wiz with a grinder ........... me, I don't do so well.
Glad you posted this. I've been thinking about posting something similiar for a bit.
For long smooth scribes I will you a table saw. Some of the guys I work with ( newer company to me) would make comments along the lines of me wanting to kill myself. I did not think that it was that dangerous. It is how I was taught, how a lot of carpenters I know do it.
Im assuming that people are scribing in the field, so there is not that big honkin powerful table saw to be worried about ( at least not on the job sites that Im on).
I will touch up with a block plane.
For more jagged cuts will use a jig saw.
I've always done the freehand on the table saw to get it close then use a belt sander and/or hand plane to fine tune it. I'm particularly attracted to the new small porter cable belt sander that has been out for a year or so now. looks easy to hold.
jason
"it aint the work I mind,
It's the feeling of falling further behind."
Bozini Latini
http://www.ingrainedwoodworking.com
I'm kind of a newb, but:
Wow. I'm usually (OK, always) quite cautious with the tablesaw and respect it utterly, but would absolutely freehand this kind of cut. I tried it once when my jigsaw died, and it works awesome, and didn't strike me as the least bit hazardous.
I just don't think that cutting an eeny-weeny bit off something is a recipe for a dangerous situation. I've fired my share of projectiles off the tablesaw when I was first trying to figure it out, and I've learned not to screw around with it, and I always try to make tablesaw operations a little safer: push-sticks, featherboards, whatever. But this is a pretty benign scenario: just take it easy. It doesn't take superhuman skill or brass balls or anything.
But I've come to appreciate the belt-sander for (in my limited experience) ultimate control.
Edited 6/1/2008 11:17 pm ET by Biff_Loman
Edited 6/1/2008 11:20 pm ET by Biff_Loman
Edited 6/1/2008 11:22 pm ET by Biff_Loman
Yes. The degree of control you have with a block plane is beyond all the other methods available.
By the way, I do back cut whatever I'm scribing somewhat. Makes for easier planing.
Some of the tract homes I remember from years ago I'd see a case of DAP Alex Plus go in the house and an empty box come out ............... guess that was their way of "fine tuning scribe lines".