All – please learn from this as I did. Changed out a dishwasher for a client. Older home, but upscale, 4 bedrooms on an acre. Distribution panel was not marked properly, imagine that, so had the client flip breakers while I tested the wire in the handy box mounted in the basement under the dishwasher. BX ran directly from the dishwasher in kitchen to box. Found breaker and left it off. Went upstairs, test wire at the dishwasher to make sure power was off and it was. Disconnected BX, had to push it to back of dishwasher through hole to basement as it needed to be replaced. I was under dishwasher working BX through hole when it became energized and for 5 long seconds I could not let go of it. Worst shock I have ever received. I thought this is it, I am going to die under this dishwasher. I finally got loose and was shaking badly from the shock. I carefully pulled BX out from under dishwasher and sure enough it was hot. Thirty seconds ago it was dead.
When down to distribution panel and took off cover. The dishwasher was connected to a duplex circuit breaker because they had run out of room in the panel. The breaker was off for the Dishwasher and I tested it with a volt meter and got a reading of 120 volts. Impossible I thought, the breaker is in the off position. Then on closer examination, I saw another wire attached to the other side of the screw on the same breaker ( a code violation). It went to the well. The well is 220 volts. Finally it dawned on me that someone previously replaced the 220 well circuit breaker with one regular breaker and one duplex breaker to gain more circuits. They connected the well to the two seperate breakers and the dishwasher shared one of the legs with the well. So when the breaker was shut off to the dishwasher there was in fact no power. However the clients wife was using water to clean the upstairs bathroom, the well pressure switch kicked in, and the breaker that was not shut off energized the circuit I was working on and almost killed me.
Lesson I learned, always open the panel to check the wiring before doing any electrical work. I was dumbfounded that someone could be so stupid as to wire something this way which was obiviously a danger and in violation of the NEC. I told the Client this needs to be corrected. Beside being shaken, having a small burn on my arm, I am wiser for the experience.
Replies
doesn't seem like it,but you had a good day,could of been last. my dad got shocked like that once,he was sore for a week. go eat a big steak and enjoy,cause you can. it's so easy to get hurt and not be doing anything wrong.larry
if a man speaks in the forest,and there's not a woman to hear him,is he still wrong?
Edited 8/12/2008 5:37 pm by alwaysoverbudget
Beside being shaken, having a small burn on my arm, I am wiser for the experience.
Have you spoken to a doctor about this incident?
If my doctor told me that there was any risk of long term damage, I'd want to have that on record. Then I'd call my lawyer for a consult.
Glad you are OK, but probably not as glad as you & your family..seize the day!
Great lesson learned, thanks for sharing.
Glad you are OK.
How did you manage to let go?
Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
Quote of the day: "...can't be done, it will take too long, not enough pipeline capacity, yada yada but yet they don't apply the same skepticism to their own "solutions" such as wind and biofuels"
No idea how I was able to let go. Luck??? I have never been shocked like that before where I could not let go and I have been shocked a few times in the past. It was like the whole upper half of my body had a current going through it. I was laying on the floor with my arms under the dishwasher so not a good position to be in to start out with.
I can tell you I was pretty pissed when I found out what someone had done. I am a licensed electrican and take pride in doing the job right and to code. I must have studied that panel for 10 minutes not believing what I was seeing. The client said they had work done by someone who worked for the local utility about 20 years ago adding a breaker and an outlet for a microwave oven which is when this mess was created.
I guess I should treat all wires as live even if you turn off the breaker at the panel and your volt meter reads zero.
Think I will buy a lottery ticket.......
Play #110 Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
Quote of the day: "...can't be done, it will take too long, not enough pipeline capacity, yada yada but yet they don't apply the same skepticism to their own "solutions" such as wind and biofuels"
110220?
Think I will buy a lottery ticket.......
Don't waste the dollar, I think you already won! Probability of winning twice is not very good.
Good to hear that all is well instead of..........
Doug
Glad you're OK - perhaps 'Seize the day' isnt' the best well-wishing!
Jeff
No idea how I was able to let go.
That's the primary reason that AC won out over DC voltage in the US - the AC cycle passes through 0 V 60 times a second, so you CAN let go. If it were DC, you wouldn't be able to let go - the voltage causes your muscles to clamp.
You can thank George Westinghouse for being more mercenary than Edison for that one.
"Then on closer examination, I saw another wire attached to the other side of the screw on the same breaker ( a code violation)."
Just for the record that is not sepcified in the code.
It is determined by the manufactures specifications.
Both SQ D and CH make breakers that are rated for 2 wires.
Don't know if that includes an of the tandems or not.
The real code violates was that athe well was not on a 2 pole breaker and that load for the well and most like for the DW required dedicate circuit(s).
BTW, there breaker made for this kind of problem . It is quad. It is 2 pair of tandems. The inner "half" breakers are tied togethr and supply 240 loads.
Then you have the 2 outter halfs of each tandem for 2 different 120 circuits.
You can also get them in different current ratings.
.
A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
Glad your ok, not as much as you are I'm sure. As others have said this is a great day, lesson learned and all you got was soiled nickers.
Good question is how you managed to get loose?
I'm sure that situation would have caught everyone here. There are times when despite all your diligence you just end up riding your luck. Glad it turned out for you.
Salesi
My close call with electricity came after I pulled the circuit breaker out of the box. No taking chances for me, not just flip it off! Actually pull the breaker out!
I went confidently out in the rain to cut the wires and when I did so got stuck on 220 Volts! about 370 years later (or so it seemed) I was able to unlock my right knee and collaspe pulling me off the hot wire.
Turned out someone had back wired another 220 circuit together and it was back feeding to the wire I'd attempted to cut..
What made it nearly fatal was my bare foot was on the cast iron floor drain.. All that saved me is it was pouring rain and the circuit outside of me was electrically shorter than going thru me, so I didn't cook internally.
I won't attempt to explain what made me work on electricity in the pouring rain..
I hate to hear that, total disregard for the next guy who wouldn't know what was done in there. Thankfully your not just some news story.
One of my first good paying jobs was vending machine delivery driver. used to have to plug a 220 cord in to run the cooler if was going to be warm overnight. One time the cord I grabbed had a bad spot in it, I was standing on the wet ground and I got that shock, Isn't it crazy how your brain says throw it, throw it, throw it, throw it, but you cant. Some how we did and thank god, but it took way to long for my arm to do what my brain said
Ill never forget it and don't tell me your not sore from it, my left side of my body was feeling it, I could feel the juice going from my hand down to my foot. I'm glad your ok, I've been there, and its not cool
Here lies a good argument for killing the whole panel by flipping off the main especially in someone else's house. A pain to reset all those clocks but easier then a conversation with Saint Pete.
Wallyo
A pain to reset all those clocks but easier then a conversation with Saint Pete.
Depends on how you lived your life. Some of those clocks are a real bear.
Family.....They're always there when they need you.
I worked in an apt. once where someone had wired the dryer recepticle to the lugs ABOVE the main breaker inside the panel in the apt. Switched the main breaker off,and luckily tested the recepticle again before touching it and still had power. wtf? Took off the panel cover and realized what had been done. Had to shut off main to the apt in the utility room of the building. I always check twice!
I worked on a 1920's apartment once where someone had wired the disposal not only ahead of the main fuse, it was ahead of the meter. There were a lot of cross connected circuits and #### in that place.
There are times when the right thing to do is a complete electrical system tune-up. Find out where everything goes, open every box, replace all the marginal devices, correct all the hack mistakes. Electrical more than any other trade is subject to weird hard to figure out hazards located where you'd never guess. It may be smarter to decline to work on some systems, let the hacks come back and kill themselves instead.
-- J.S.
Agreed always check twice but in the OP's case it did not matter he did not
get feed thru till the pump kicked in having the main off in his case would of helped. In all the other cases mentioned below you would not be able to turn it off i.e. connected to the main lugs, either side of meter etc. You should see the apartment are having done now, all sorts of fun things; a main double knife switch disconnect that looks like it belongs to the "monsters". Outlets on one leg of the h20 heater. Range and h20 heater on the same 60 amp breaker etc.Wallyo
Edited 8/14/2008 12:29 pm ET by wallyo
Agreed always check twice but in the OP's case it did not matter he did notget feed thru till the pump kicked in having the main off in his case would of helped.
That's true. Just wanted to throw in my two cents because I think lots of people will kill the main and then assume that what they're working on is dead.
You are right on that one.