Determining Nail Sizes and Types
DavidAndersen
| Posted in Construction Techniques on
Regarding exterior trim, is there a rule I can follow for nail size and length? I’ll be installing trim that is anywhere from 1/2″ to 1-3/4″ thick. The sheathing is 3/4″ thick. There are studs 16″ on center, generally. Should I add 3/4″ to the thickness of the trim? I’m also trying to understand rules of thumb for shank and head sizes to use and the nail type (smooth, ringed).
Thanks in advance for your thoughts.
David
Replies
In general if it is sheathed in OSB I'll add an inch and a half to the thickness of the trim. if it is Bilt-rite then add that thickness plus and inch plus the trim . If your 3/4 sheath is wood plank like shiplap then add an inch and a half to the thickness of your trim.
In general you want at least 3/4 of bite into the stud . given the chace I would use a ring shank over smoth any day. Maze makes a nice trim nail in all kinds of lenghts and its ringshanked
For the truely smooth look you can also use trim headed screws if that kind of time is avaleble. Trim nails will work to but they only come in smooth shank.
I don't know what the penny number is for the Maze but if I had to guess i would say around a 6 penny. Mike
The "rule" that's been in my head ever since I was a kid was 1/3 2/3. 1/3 in the material you're nailing, 2/3 in what you're nailing it to.
"If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you. This is the principal difference between a dog and a man." - Mark Twain
Thanks everyone.
RW and Dez -
The 1/3, 2/3 rule implies that if my trim is 1" thick, the nail should be 3". If the trim is 2" thick, the nail should be 6". There must be a limit, because I can't imagine a 6" nail!
David
Then just go with Nine Inch Nails.
Nope. It's inviolate. No exceptions. With 3" trim, you use 9" nails, which of course protrude some from the drywall on the other side, but just bend the ends over. Holds better that way.
Er. Never mind. If you care, you can get really long nails. I've gotten some 16" spikes before, but that isn't really the point. Of course there's a limit. "If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you. This is the principal difference between a dog and a man." - Mark Twain
I always use RW's rule, (same as dez's), but have never seen 2" think trim.
As far as ring shank, etc, I think ring or screw shank are good for floor type applications. The only other time would be if a manufacturer's installation specs required it. Some siding/trim nails are screw shank, but, personally, I don't think it's essential. Matt
Davidbear, just use common sense.
First and foremost, use a fastener that wont rust.
Second, use enough length and thickness to hold your material. If it fastens tight and will withstand the forces that will attempt to loosen it, then you probably are ok.
Personally, I'd be gunning 3.25 galvanized nails into whatever the 1 3/4" trim is. It's probably going to be a rough sawn softwood and that length will do fine. I'd settle for 3" nails but might be inclined to put more. The width of the stock will also cause you some concern. If you are running 2/12 rough sawn over studs at 16" oc, then you'll need some heavy duty holding power during the drying/curing process. Once the stuff dries out and is painted, your worries are over.
Tell more about the trim (species matters), and we'll probably have more advice.
blue
I really appreciate everyone's help.
The species is poplar and it is sanded smooth.
My thickest piece of trim is 2 3/4 thick (from the wall) and 1 3/4 high, I kid you not. This is a band that runs around the entire house, level with the second floor window sills. Essentially it is a window sill around the entire house.
Most of my trim is 1-1/8 thick, however. It ranges in width from 1-1/8 to 5-1/4.
The next most common is 3/4 thick. It ranges in width from 2-3/4 to 10-5/8.
It's all poplar.
I'm using ring-shank nails for the new cedar siding. I'd really appreciate thoughts on the nail type for this trim. I'm planning on double-hot-dipped from Maze for everything (or possibly stainless steel because the trim is stained an off-white though I'd prefer to avoid the cost) but am not sure about the shanks. The old trim was all on with smooth nails and very little of it was pulling away, so I'm assuming ring shank is not needed.
This is (if you haven't already guessed) my first serious carpentry/construction/restoration project and I'm trying to go slow, learn and lot, and avoid screwing up badly.
Do you already have the trim? What made you decide upon using popular? Reason I ask is that popular is usually not used as an exterior wood ( doesnt weather/ deal with water the best).
You may want to think about toe screwing that "window sill" to the house as opposed to face nailing it. Could try using a pocket screw jig ( like the kreg jig) to make it easier.
-m2akita
I do have it already. After a long and anguished research effort on the species, I selected poplar over cedar, pine, and cypress because a)a local carpenter I respect uses it all the time, b) it is readily available locally from a millwork shop I like, c) the price is reasonable, and d) it is smooth, clean, hard wood.
My first choice was cypress, but it's harder to get locally (Iowa), more expensive (esp. with shipping), and in short supply due to the hurricanes (it all comes from the South). The supply issue is going to drive the price higher.
I'm going to put two coats of solid latex stain on all sides and ends and I'm hoping that will preserve it well. My carpenter friend suggested oil-based primer and paint, but I want stain and my painting expert suggested latex is better, primarily because it is more flexible.
If you have thoughts on any of this, by all means, let me know. I'm still not sold one way or the other on the coating. I'm stuck, for better or worse, with the poplar however. For longevity, I figure it can't be worse than pine, and that can last a long time with care.
David
are you doing a type of band-board around the house? for instance...a 5/4" cedar 1x4 with a 2x3 cap? I've had to do this same thing is why I ask...
if so, you may try what we did...we attached the "cap" to the band before applied it to the wall...I used a 3 1/4" galv ring shank to apply the top cap to the band (since it was flashed over the cap, the nail didn't ever show) about every 8-12"...then I used a 3" maize nail, ring shanked, to apply to the wall, hitting each stud 16" oc (2 nails per stud)...
if you're not doing a cap...well...thanks for reading anyway....
Something to consider is plumbers and electricians have to nail plate anything less than 1 1/4" from face of studs so 1 1/8" should be maximum penetration.
Smile. It could be worse. You could be me working for you.