Do I want my check back??
About a year ago, my bank was preparing for a merger. One of the other bank’s customers had the same account number as my business account. So my bank changed my account number and ordered new checks and deposit slips for me.
Then they debted my account for $85 (or so) to pay for the checks!!
That caused my $150 check to Yellow Book to bounce.
I was at the bank the day after I received notice of the bounce and the bank credited back the $85 and the overdraft fees.
I did not call Yellow Book on the grounds that I felt they would contact me and who would I talk to and, without the check, what could they do……
Well, they never called or sent anything.
Until last week when I got a call from a gal in their own collections department insisting I authorize a check over the phone immediately!!
I stated that I would be happy to make the check good, but I want the check back. At the last discussion, they were still looking for the check!
Everyone I’ve talked to so far (except a lawyer!) agrees I should insist on the return of the check (a friend believes the lawyer did not understand the question).
How about it, Breaktimers?? Should I insist on the return of the check?
Another day, another tool.
Edited 10/12/2005 11:46 pm by RichBeckman
when you signed your yellow page contract, you promised to pay x dollars. when you wrote a check, that check was another promise to pay. because your bank returned the check to yellow pages as nsf, you still owe the orignal x dollars. yellows pages has no obligation to keep and return the check to you. most creditors/vendors will keep the check as proof that they weren't paid, but i know of no law that requires it.
i'm pretty sure i understood the question, and i'm pretty sure i'm still a lawyer
Have you had an ad in the yellow pages for the past year?
I'm surprised you haven't been dunned before this. Since you owe the money and admit it, ask them to resubmit the check to the bank for payment. If they won't do that, place a stop payment on the original check and reissue a new check. Convince the bank to do the right thing and not charge you for the stop payment order. They did cause the original problem.
"I'm surprised you haven't been dunned before this."Me too. But I would say I'm surprised I wasn't contacted long ago with an inquiry concerning the obvious error that has been made and what can I do to assist in correcting it."Since you owe the money and admit it, ask them to resubmit the check to the bank for payment."I've done that. But they say they do not have the check. If they had the check, this would already be cleared up." If they won't do that, place a stop payment on the original check and reissue a new check. Convince the bank to do the right thing and not charge you for the stop payment order. They did cause the original problem."Well, except that bank does not exist anymore. It was swallowed up by another. Presumably the new bank will honor the obligations of the old, but I don't want to push that too much until Yellow Book wants a fee for the bounced check. I'm hoping the new bank will foot that bill.Rich BeckmanAnother day, another tool.
"... yellows pages has no obligation to keep and return the check to you."Well, that's two votes for not worrying about getting the check back. But the votes carry more weight since they are cast by lawyers.Interesting that even my bank said I want the check back. And everyone I know is insistent that I should get it back.Just for the record, this is really a question of how long should I hold out. If they simply can't find the check, I will send them another one. But I'm in no hurry if they are so incompetent.Rich BeckmanAnother day, another tool.
>>Interesting that even my bank said I want the check back. And everyone I know is insistent that I should get it back.The people at the customer service level don't know squat about the details of checks and negotiable instruments: I know, I used to train them in that stuff when I first started with the NY bank.We'd keep it very simple, and designed the branch procedures based on what we figured they could follow and implement with a reasonable degree of accuracy.The procedures always followed the UCC rules, but we didn't implement every tiny twist and turn.we'd K. I. S. S!The rules on checking and check clearing have significantly changed since I practiced, so I don't know the technical answer.*Practically - I don't think you should worry about.Get the Yellow Book representative's name or employee number and any sort of reference number they have for the situation, get some soty of receipt for this payment-preferably referencing what the payment applies to (i.e., the 2005 or whatever listing) and write yourself a memo to the file in case the issue ever comes up.-------------
Under the old rules, you would have a right to demand presentation of the check to you for payment, and if this was real money (thousands, you'd be right to do so.)A check is your order to the bank to pay money to whoever [properly presents the check to them (Proper presentation itself being a chapter in the book on negotiable instruments.)Without looking at the nooks and crannies, their agreement with you is that they will pay a properly payable if there are funds on deposit.The bank didn't comply with your order.After it "bounced," the party presenting or holding the check has had a right against you both on the check and the underlying transaction (assuming they performed their part of the deal.)When you pay them this time, you'd like to get the check back so it isn't floating around out there as a possible obligation of yours that someone else might get a hold of and go after you on.In theory, if you don't get it back, you might have to pay it a second time or face a judgment on it. For $85, after this period of time, don't sweat it
Sojourners: Christians for Justice and Peace
I never took commercial paper, but I believe that a check is only good for 60 days after its date - so the check the Yellow guys have is worthless.
That's why they want another one. Don't worry about the original check.
>>I never took commercial paper, but I believe that a check is only good for 60 days after its date - so the check the Yellow guys have is worthless. FWIW: There have been a lot of changes in the area since I practiced in it, but the old rule was that, as between the bank and its customer (the drawer) a check was good for 180 days and the bank had to honor it (if properly presented and payable.) And, the bank could honor it for up to 1 year and debit its customer's account.After 1 year the check was stale and could not be paid without further approval. (Typically, a stale check just gets sent back - least costly approach for the bank.)I don't know how these rules have changed in the past few years with all of the UCC NI changes.Also FWIW: as with any 3 party transaction (3rd party beneficiary K, NIs, letters of credit, insurance, etc) you always have to look at the various sets of rights and obligations arising from the relationships:With checks:
drawer v drawee(bank)
Drawee v drawerDrawer v. payee
Payee v drawerpayee v drawee
drawee v payeeAnd, of course, with NI's, all the endorsers and endorsees v the other folks in the chain of endorsement.If you're strange enough, it can actually be sort of interesting! <G>
Sojourners: Christians for Justice and Peace
well, I like to think I am not strange enough to find this interesting, but I am curious to see how long a paper check is valid - so far I have only found this one pro-consumer anti-electronic check article, which at least has some info on the new laws -
I believe that you are still correct on the 180 days (that's what my bank says); additionally, the OP may not be able to get his original check back because under the new law it can be destroyed as soon as it is converted electronically. My bet is it's gone.
Edited 10/13/2005 12:09 pm ET by RickD
Pay the amout you owe.
If the old check appears, deal with it then.
If they were going to prosecute you for the bad check, wouldn't they have to furnish the check to the prosecutor?
I think you are entitled to get the check that bounced in exchange for a new check.
"To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of people always possess arms..."
Richard Henry Lee, 1788
First United States Senate
writing an nsf check to pay an existing debt isnt a crime for which you can be prosecuted, at least not in louisiana, but then again our legal system is far superior to all others. this is because you didnt use the check to get any new goods or services, and the creditor is in no worse position than before. getting new services or goods for a hot checks is theft by check.in answer to the original question, yes, you probably want your check back. but, like i used to tell my kids "you can want in one hand and pee in the other, and see which one fills up quicker." sounds like you're stuck between two behemouths. guess who gets ignored first?
this is gods way of telling U yellow pages ads don't work.
Artistry In Carpentry
Jeff, my first year in biz I ran a Yellow Pages ad.
When the phone rang, if the first words out of their mouth were "How much to.........?" I knew instantly where they got my number.
I'am not a lawyer but I did stay at a Holiday Inn.
Put a stop order on original check, maybe bank will do it for Nada.
Issue new check pay them for service
Make sure that this does show up on your TRW,if it does tell that you want a letter sent to verify the mistake and you want this off your TRW.
And what Buck said
I think you ought to dump the load back onto the bank that caused the problem. After all, it's not your fault, and it's not the Yellow Pages' fault, either.
In your shoes, I'd be on the phone hollering at the bank until they put the stop-payment order on the check and paid Yellow Pages the $150 and verified my credit profile and corrected it and sent a written apology signed by an officer to both me and Yellow Pages.
And believe me, they would do all that, because it would cost them so much more in bad publicity if they didn't and I started hollering to the press intead. And you probably have a case against the bank for damages to your financial reputation, too. If you convince them you are not bluffing, they will fold. Bank on it....
A day may come when the courage of men fails,when we forsake our friends and break all bonds of fellowship...
But it is not this day.
Thanks for all the discussion. I was completely unaware that there was a time limit on checks. Just last week I deposited a check that was dated January 31, 2005 (customer wrote it and then put it in a drawer and put me off...glad to be done with him!!).In 1980 or so I deposited a check that was a couple of years old...after checking with the writer to make sure it was OK with them!As it turns out, I received the bounced check in today's mail!!The form letter included said:"Dear Customer:The attached live check number 497 for $150.00 is being returned for the following reason(s):(x) You requested this check be returned to you since this was NSF and reversed off your account( ) Blank Check( ) No Dollar Amount( ) Damaged In Transit( ) Third Party Check( ) No Account Number Given( ) Written To Other PayeeWe appreciate your prompt attention to this matter."This particular situation is the first option in the form, yet none of the three people I talked to had any idea that it might be possible for me to get my check back.Guess I better send 'em another check.Rich BeckmanAnother day, another tool.
Edited 10/15/2005 12:33 am by RichBeckman
just issue a stop payment order on the old one
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The new banking laws have pretty much eliminated the legal need for banks to present paper checks or validate signatures. Banks can now show you an image of a check and it is legally equivalent to you receiving the real thing.
"The new banking laws have pretty much eliminated the legal need for banks to present paper checks or validate signatures."Well banks have not verified signature, as a routine, for 50 years, maybe 100.Sign a check Mickey Mouse and send it in for a utility payment or the like. No one will question it.However, they are still obligated to verify the signature if you make a complaint that the check is not yours.
Yes I know they don't check signatures, but the new law eliminates most legal liability for banks if a customer calls them on it. They can also reverse a deposit up to 21 days after a check clears the bank. The only sure thing anymore is a direct wire funds transfer.
Life's to short, pay the bill, forget the check, it's probably lost, and if they try to run it again later you can deal it with it then.
I hate call's from the yellow pages.