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This question is related to cutting glass at the hardware store where I work. When we cut glass that we know is going to go in a door, we’re supposed to use plexiglass, right? We don’t sell tempered glass, only regular window glass and 1/8″ plexi. Does that apply to sidelights of a door, too? Does it apply to small lites that are within the door, but are high up–ones you couldn’t really crash into? Does it apply to interior French doors?
Finally, I work in Brookline, Massacusetts. Who has legal jursidiction over the questions I’ve asked–local, state, or federal government?
Thank you very much.
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Good question. Whem i lived in Boston, I remember a child dying in Watertown when he fell backwards through an old storm door. he bled to death quite quickly. Around 1991.
Here in No. VA the glass shop I used said once they knew the glass was for a door they couldn't sell anything but tempered. Call your local inspector's office for the exact rule in your jurisdiction -- typically any glass in or near the door (yes, sidelights, and yes, any door) must be tempered. The codes are explicit on this, and their provisions are typical incorporated by reference in state law.
Now, whether you may be liable for selling (not installing) glass with the knowledge that it will be misused is harder. This is probably not spelled out in state or local law, but I suppose there is a plausible tort argument that you might be liable. I don't know. But just don't do it. It really is a big danger. Steer them to plexiglas.
*Thank you, Andrew, very timely, I'm building two doors right now for a garden structure, and I think the code allows regular glass in the doors, these are half height Colonial panels... but the thought of some poor kid bleeding to death because of my stupidity, code compliant or not.... plexi it is! By the way (at the risk of being shot at, because I'm no expert), I think plexi expands and contracts a lot more than glass, so leave enough space around the glazing.
*... and tempered really isn't all that expensive -- 20% more. Plexiglas's scratchability has always been a problem for me.Incidentally, it's my understanding that overhead glass has to be laminated, like a car window. Never knew there was so much to glass.
*Andrew:Change the phrase to : "laminated like a car windshield." The side and rear glasses of most cars are tempered since the late 1950's. The laminated glass has a tendency to fog over the years and it is legal to use in all automotive applications. Tempered would be a poor choice for windshields because when broken it shatters into thousands of small pieces. Wouldn't that be fun when a rock cracks your windshield on the highway!Also, I think I saw in the CABO that very small glass in doors did not have to be tempered. Such as the small panes at eye level. No danger of falling through these. Sidelights over a certain size do need to be tempered, as do seperate windows mounted within door swing distance of the door opening, even if the door swings away from the window ( Stafford county interpretation).Frank
*Interesting about the cars. My rear window was smashed many years ago and every square centimeter crazed -- but none fell. Pretty sure it was laminated. I think the window think was developed more for when the person flies through the window -- remember seat belts came a lot later than safety glass!
*The code here in Ohio (Cleveland area) is that all glass within 16 inches of the floor must be tempered. I suppose plexi would be legal but I think it is awful cheesy. Folks usually go that way (plexi) because of the savings in money. I suppose you may be able to use other forms of safety glass too but all I am aware of for sure is the tempered glass below 16 inches.Pete Draganic
*to do list... Monday morning... order tempered glass for gazebo doors....
*Andrew:That was a tempered window. Laminated glass cracks in lines i.e. like a windshield will develop a line crack. Laminated is two saftey glass layers bonded to a plastic inner layer. Each layer of glass can crack independently of the other! Because of this, laminated glass can be cut like standard window glass scoring method, just have to score both sheets and cut the plastic layer after snapping. Tempered auto glass can not be cut by the scoring method, it just cracks into thousand pieces. I have seen tempered glass chip along the edge, and it can be sanded and buffed to remove the sharp edge.On a historical note, when tempered glass started to appear in cars, people were not acustomed to seeing glass craze into thousands of pieces, and the UFO craze was at it's '50's height, so when people saw autos with crazed glass, they thought aliens were responsible.Windshields at one time were mounted with a rubber gasket, which had a side bennefit of being able to be designed to pop out of the car if pushed by an unrestrained occupant. Much easier on the head to go through an opening than through a glass. ( see Tucker movie ) Today most all auto glass is bonded with urethane adhesive to the car to provide more stuctural integrity to the car. The engineers are now counting on the glass to help keep the car from crushing in a rollover! Occupants are now supposed to be restrained, so pop out glass is no longer desired, so unrestrained occupants will go through the glass.Frank
*Speaking of rubber gaskets, I've been using EPDM to glaze windows instead of putty ... I think it makes the glass more shatter-resistant among othe things. Thicker glass will take more of an impact too.If laminated glass is two layers of tempered, why don't the sheets both craze?Good choice, Ross.
*This may not need to be said, but always be careful when handling tempered glass that isn't already mounted or protected in a frame. It's very vulnerable to bangs and chips along its edge, and it can shatter from a small bump. I remember removing a sliding shower door panel for cleaning, and I bumped the panel on the tub. It was so wierd to at one moment be holding a three foot wide panel and the next to be holding nothing but air with a pile of glass pebbles around my (bare) feet.
*When I was in 3rd grade, the kid living behind us ran thru a patio door in a new house. Had over one hundred stitches. A friend several years ago had an old french door with the "little panes". I suggested he put a single sheet of plexiglass over the panes on the inside for safety and security, but he didn't, for a while. His little girl ran her arm thru one of the panes using it as a "push plate" and cut her arm badly. Also knew a guy that fell thru the shower door at his home and a teenage girl that ran thru a glass door at a church youth sleep-over. I had just shut the door. Pretty bloody mess, they had to use towels as a compress. Some of the girls became histerical. Back in the '60's and '70's, safety glass was not always required.Current codes, UBC, here require door glass, shower doors, and windows within about 6' of the floor of showers, and any glass within 24" of any door in any position to be safety glass of some kind. Also glass within about 18" of the floor. Tempered, wired glass, laminated glass, plexiglass etc. Glass near stairways might have to be safety type also, although it isn't always enforced.
*Andrew:Windshields are not laminated tempered glass, just laminated glass. If you fold up a windshield ( that is how I put them into the trash can ), you can get very large shards to peel away from the plastic inner layer. These shards look like regular window glass between 1/16 and 1/8" thick depending on the age of the windshield. Newer glass is much thinner than old glass due to weight savings by the automakers.Frank
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This question is related to cutting glass at the hardware store where I work. When we cut glass that we know is going to go in a door, we're supposed to use plexiglass, right? We don't sell tempered glass, only regular window glass and 1/8" plexi. Does that apply to sidelights of a door, too? Does it apply to small lites that are within the door, but are high up--ones you couldn't really crash into? Does it apply to interior French doors?
Finally, I work in Brookline, Massacusetts. Who has legal jursidiction over the questions I've asked--local, state, or federal government?
Thank you very much.