I have heard different ideas but do I need dry wall primer w/ latex paint on new dry wall ?
thanks
Discussion Forum
Discussion Forum
Up Next
Video Shorts
Featured Story
Skim-coating with joint compound covers texture, renews old drywall and plaster, and leaves smooth surfaces ready to paint.
Featured Video
Highlights
"I have learned so much thanks to the searchable articles on the FHB website. I can confidently say that I expect to be a life-long subscriber." - M.K.
Replies
Yep
Modern primer for new drywall is a special blend which encorporates adhesive into the mix. So it seals as well as helping to make an excellent bonding base for a one top coat job. The top coat is literally pulled out of the roller sleeve by the adhesive in the primer.
Don't expect new drywall primer to look good by itself. Just get it rolled on without worrying about making it look uniform. It will take care of the rest.
I'd suggest that you stick with the same company's paint for both the primer and the top coat.
Edited 12/24/2008 1:57 pm by Hudson Valley Carpenter
Sometime in January I'll be following behind the drywaller and painting the 1200 SqFt of basement. I do want to primer, but wondered if anyone had products the recommended and can speak from use-experience. This includes the drywall ceiling as well.
super hide from benny moore
Can't go wrong with Benjamin Moore.
Behr is OK too. I did a bathroom remodel in this house, applying Behr's primer for new drywall over green board, using a satin top coat. I was impressed by the results with one coat each. Easy application, good coverage with a typical roller sleeve and my average painting skills.
The surface is easy to clean and seems durable after two years.
On another forum someone posted this about BM Aura single coat and no priming."All that said, we have just made the switch to Aura. What your dealer is telling you is correct. Aura is self priming and does not require a prime coat over fresh drywall. As was the Pearl finish, Aura is touted to be a one coat paint. Now not to sound snooty here, but a lot of our work is in high end and custom homes. The one coat thing just doesnt fly for us and we have yet to use a paint that tout's itself as one coat that actually cuts the mustard. I will say though that for the average paint job over bare drywall, one coat of Aura, if your walls are real clean and if you put it on as thick as you are suppose to, will satisfy the average joe. It actually does normalize the absorption between the paper and the compounded areas and the finish is acceptable (more later). This really only works though on a very absorbent surface like drywall. If you are painting over any sheen finish (eggshell or higher) all paints tend to skid and drag a bit and this can leave a screen of holidays kinda like looking through a window screen. Barring scuffing the surface (not worth it) its two coats. With dark colors over light or vice versa, two coats. Perhaps you could get away with one over flat paint but we have yet to try it."But he still primes and second coat in most cases.See Mark B for more details.http://tinyurl.com/a6nh35.
William the Geezer, the sequel to Billy the Kid - Shoe
I've sprung for the Aura paint. You really can do it in one coat. That paint is totally sick.
I did use two coats anyway. Just couldn't help myself. I do have to say...it's the best paint I've ever used. Pretty pricey though!
http://www.cliffordrenovations.com
http://www.ramdass.org
Andy, do you mean one coat and NO primer? How much does that cr^p cost?
fifty+ bucks a gallon last time I used it.
and yep..no primer necessary but you do have to use 2 coats for sure in that case.
I use 2 anyway cuz I was rolling a deep rich color....plus I can't help myself...lol.
i used it in my own house just to try it out. Most customers'd never pay that much but I have asked.
Kinda like asking them if they wanna use Kerdi in the shower area i'm tiling. they won't spring for it no matter how good I tell'm it is. Some do but very few.
The paint itself is a better grade of paint all around I think. Goes on like a dream and blends in really nicely especially when I'm cutting it in.
The brushes even clean easier. The stuff does have a weird odor when wet though.
Here's some good stuff to read through if ya want..
http://www.myperfectcolor.com/Benjamin-Moore-Aura-Paint-Myperfectcolor-com-s/3342.htm
http://www.cliffordrenovations.com
http://www.ramdass.org
Edited 12/24/2008 11:44 pm ET by andybuildz
Holy cr^p! Fifty bucks!Well, lessee, say with conventional method you got $10/gal. for primer and $20/gal. for finish. That's $30/gal. right there, not counting possible recoat, so it's not INSANELY more expensive. Good to know about this stuff, though, in case a client wants 'the best'.Thanks for the link, Andy. Happy Holiday, bro.
Good primer is more then ten bucks. I usually use Kilz premium and thats almost $20 a gallon or Kilz 2 which is about $14 a gallon.
Then I use either BM and that stuff goes for about $30 a gallon unless you use Moorecraft which is half the price...but only half as good. It's fine for closets and the such. Ralph Lauren paint I find to be of good quality as well but not as good as BM.
They cut the price of RL down from what it used to be...now it's the same as BM.
Makes little sense to use cheap paint. How much do you really save? The Aura paint is kinda outta orbit though but like you said...if you have high end customers or you're doing your own house..ESPECIALLY if you're using deep colors like I usually do then it pays.View Image
To me....it's really only about $10 more a gallon when I add it all up.
Have a great new year yourself bro....keep it healthy : )View Image
http://www.cliffordrenovations.com
http://www.ramdass.org
Edited 12/25/2008 12:57 am ET by andybuildz
I use Drywall Primer on new drywall or extensive filling, then Enamel Primer under satin: Behr works just fine.
<!----><!----> <!---->
Phill Giles<!----><!---->
The Unionville Woodwright<!----><!---->
Sherwinn williams - I think its problock 200 that we like. or maybe 400. Just ask
LouAs the twig bends- So grows the tree!!
It always makes your top coat look better. I always try and put on two coats of primer.
Primer shoud be used for all painting. Latex primer penetrates (and seals, if it's a primer-sealer) better than topcoat and leaves a low-film, porous surface for good adhesion (it does not contain adhesives, as someone claimed) of the topcoat.
One coat of a good quality primer or primer-sealer is all that's required. Two coats of topcoat are necessary, however, for good color coverage and durability. If you want to finish with only a single topcoat, you can tint the primer towards the finish color.
There are also vapor barrier latex primers available, which are a far better option than using poly, since they will allow some breathing of the wall system and yet meet code requirements.
Solar & Super-Insulated Healthy Homes
<<"...porous surface for good adhesion (it does not contain adhesives, as someone claimed)....."Although I'm not the 'someone' who claimed that, I am under the impression that most drywall primers have PVA as an ingredient. Poly-vinyl-acetate, as I recall, is the main ingredient in many carpenter-wood-glue products.Has the formulation for the primers changed, or was I wrong?
Politics is the antithesis of problem solving.
YesMaam
I think you are correct about the PVA in most primers, Thats what probably made it feel too "sticky" to me when I was rolling it on (as opposed to spraying and backrolling)
I am under the impression that most drywall primers have PVA as an ingredient.
Many drywall primers use PVA as the binder in order to seal the porosity of the drywall and allow a more uniform coverage for the top-coat. Primer-sealers have more pigment and solids so that they can better fill uneven surfaces. Primer-sealer-hiders have more and larger solids for covering existing stains and sometimes stronger binders (like shellac-based BIN) for sealing in odors and stains (the alcohol kills bacteria).
The binder in paint creates the film and also enhances the adherance of the paint to the substrate (so in that sense, it's an adhesive). PVA is a less expensive altenative to acrylic binders used in the better quality paints. Primers have less binder and more solids than paint to create less film and more "tooth" or texture for the top-coat to adhere to.
A good "primer" on primer, titled Don't Skip the Primer, is at http://www.taunton.com/finehomebuilding/PDF/Free/021161060.pdf
Riversong HouseWright
Design * * Build * * Renovate * * ConsultSolar & Super-Insulated Healthy Homes
Is it too hard for you to admit you were wrong when you claimed that there are no adhesives in primer? The PVA is the adhesive/bonding agent.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Is it too hard for you to admit you were wrong when you claimed that there are no adhesives in primer? The PVA is the adhesive/bonding agent.
Not when I'm wrong. But I'm not in this case.
The paint industry does not use the term adhesive, as it would be misleading.
All paints contain:
pigment
binder
carrier
additives
The purpose of the binder (what you're calling adhesive) is to bind the pigment particles together, to create film strength, and - yes - to facilitate adherance to the substrate (not to create an adhesive bond to the top-coat, which calling it an adhesive suggests).
Riversong HouseWright
Design * * Build * * Renovate * * ConsultSolar & Super-Insulated Healthy Homes
Edited 12/26/2008 4:38 pm ET by Riversong
You are just quibbling about words. an adhesive and a binder are the same thing. it is what bonds or adheres the pigments to the surface being painted. A quick google can find a great number of sites in the painting industry that use the term interchangeably. I posted one or two of them already.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
You are just quibbling about words. an adhesive and a binder are the same thing. it is what bonds or adheres the pigments to the surface being painted.
I do not "quibble" about words. Words convey meaning and are the "tools" we use for communication. Careful use of words is just as important as careful use of our other tools. Without a common language, we are just talking past each other.
When we use the term "adhesive", we mean something that is used to bind two other materials together, not something that binds itself internally and to its substrate.
We don't coat walls with adhesive, we coat them with paint, which congeals or polymerizes into a film.
Riversong HouseWright
Design * * Build * * Renovate * * ConsultSolar & Super-Insulated Healthy Homes
Keep talking. The more you say, the more obvious it is you are all about BSing your way thru it.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
The more you say, the more obvious it is you are all about BSing your way thru it.
Absolutely! Building Science is the basis of everything I've said.
Apparently you have a problem with objective science and, perhaps like Frenchy, prefer ancecdotal bias, speculation, and uneducated opinion.
Riversong HouseWright
Design * * Build * * Renovate * * ConsultSolar & Super-Insulated Healthy Homes
Yes, I prefer the real world to copying things from books and websites without true understanding of what they mean.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
When you first explained that I was (more or less) wrong about PVA being an adhesive agent in primers, you explained that PVA is used as a binder ("Many drywall primers use PVA as the binder in order to seal...").Three sentences later you said that binders increase adherence to the substrate ("The binder in paint creates the film and also enhances the adherance of the paint to the substrate...").And you finished that sentence by saying "so in that sense, it's an adhesive".You have now spent numerous posts claiming that you were right all along. Its a safe assumption for me (and Piffin) that you are implying that I was wrong.Which I was not, based on what you wrote in post #24 of this thread.You said it -- PVA is used as a binder, which increased adherence,so in that sense, it's an adhesive.I agree.And I'll be Piffin does too.
Politics is the antithesis of problem solving.
Edited 12/26/2008 6:12 pm ET by YesMaam27577
You said it -- PVA is used as a binder, which increased adherence,so in that sense, it's an adhesive.
You're right. That's what I said. I was trying to explain the confusion expressed in this thread about paint "containing" adhesives.
Try using PVA drywall primer to glue two pieces of wood together and let me know how you make out.
Riversong HouseWright
Design * * Build * * Renovate * * ConsultSolar & Super-Insulated Healthy Homes
You guys are beating a dead horse with semantics on this issue. Why not give it a rest? :o)
"Try using PVA drywall primer to glue two pieces of wood together "such a silly statement! NOBODY ever said that primer IS a glue, only that it contains adhesives.It takes a very insecure person to have such a need to try and twist things to prove himself right all the time. Makes me feel sorry for you.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
"Try using PVA drywall primer to glue two pieces of wood together "
such a silly statement! NOBODY ever said that primer IS a glue, only that it contains adhesives.
Of course it's silly. That's the point. And that's why those ingredients are called "binders" not "adhesives".
It takes a very insecure person to have such a need to try and twist things to prove himself right all the time. Makes me feel sorry for you.
And what do you call a person who has to resort to ad-hominen attacks instead of responding to the topic?
Riversong HouseWright
Design * * Build * * Renovate * * ConsultSolar & Super-Insulated Healthy Homes
Edited 12/27/2008 2:36 pm ET by Riversong
PVA is called an adhesive.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
PVA is called an adhesive.
Clearly it is. You just did - incorrectly.
http://www.paintquality.com/library/ingredients.htm
In general terms, all paints have four basic components which impact these properties. These components are:
PIGMENTSProvide color and hiding; some are used to impart bulk at relatively low cost
BINDER "binds" the pigment together, and provides film integrity and adhesion
LIQUID (or the "carrier")provides desired consistency and makes it possible to apply the pigment and binder to the surface being painted
ADDITIVES low-level ingredients that provide specific paint properties such as mildew resistance, defoaming and good flow and leveling
Riversong HouseWright
Design * * Build * * Renovate * * ConsultSolar & Super-Insulated Healthy Homes
http://www.pslc.ws/mactest/pva.htmhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyvinyl_acetateI can do you two for one all day
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
I can do you two for one all day
Only if you fail to read what you link to. Neither source is from the paint industry.
From your first link: PVA is used to make wood glues, as well as other adhesives.
It is an ingredient in wood glues, but its primary purpose in paint is as a binder, without which the pigment particles would turn to dust.
Riversong HouseWright
Design * * Build * * Renovate * * ConsultSolar & Super-Insulated Healthy Homes
"you fail to read what you link to."You seem to have that problem. your link contained no less than 17 instances of stating what I have here - that binders are there for adhesion.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
boys ! don't make me come over there !Mike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
>>"I was trying to explain the confusion expressed in this thread about paint "containing" adhesives."You were trying to explain the confusion about paint containing adhesives, and in doing so you explained that paint contains adhesives.I'm not the one who is confused.
Politics is the antithesis of problem solving.
This discussion of semantics is becoming tedious. Next, someone will digress into a discussion of 'paints' vs. 'coatings.'
Even in common use, "paint" can mean everything from a lime/water slurry (whitewash) to an epoxy floor 'paint.'
To use my recent shop painting effort as an example ...
The "paint" i used, which had done quite well on the outside of my house, performed pretty poorly on the old, unprimed drywall.
I'm sure everyone here has also done the opposite ... put on a layer of 'primer' ... then just never got around to putting on the top coat. Again, the results are disappointing ... the 'white' doesn't stay that way, sunlight and weather may break it down, and it just never looks very good.
Common ingredients are only part of the story ... I suspect that none here have any trouble telling underwear from work clothing ... though both are made of the same fibers!
A common thread to all this paint discussion is the overlooking of one fact: painting is a SKILLED trade. Now, everyone who has ever painted their bedroom will be tempted to dispute this .... but the real pros manage to do a noticeably better job. These guys may not have the vocabulary, or science, quite "right," but their array of techniques allow them to do a much better job.
Indeed, a lot of the 'research' done by paint makers is an attempt to understand just what the painters have already discovered in the field.
Or .. to put it another way .... if paint makers were so smart, why is there still so much Flotrol still used?
I'm sure everyone here has also done the opposite ... put on a layer of 'primer' ... then just never got around to putting on the top coat. Again, the results are disappointing ... the 'white' doesn't stay that way, sunlight and weather may break it down, and it just never looks very good.
That's because primers contain considerably less binder. Their job is not to create film strength but to leave a porous surface for the top-coat to latch on to.
Indeed, a lot of the 'research' done by paint makers is an attempt to understand just what the painters have already discovered in the field.
I would have to dispute this. For years, experienced painters insisted that oil paints were superior to latex, and failed to notice that the paint chemists were creating latex paints that far surpassed oil paints except in a few limited applications (such as priming interior trim where the grain might raise, or on high-traffic surfaces).
Riversong HouseWright
Design * * Build * * Renovate * * ConsultSolar & Super-Insulated Healthy Homes
Edited 12/27/2008 4:08 pm ET by Riversong
>>"For years, experienced painters insisted that oil paints were superior to latex...."I have not yet found a latex paint that looks anywhere near as good as a good alkyd paint. It is way to difficult to get the same finished surface -- the same blocking. Every latex job that I have ever seen has brush strokes, or orange peel.Not so with a good alkyd.Now if your statement was made about the longevity/durability of the latex versus alkyd, you might be correct. But interior trim almost never needs repainting as a result of the paint being old and worn out. It gets done because of nicks, chips, and color-choice changes.
Politics is the antithesis of problem solving.
I have to agree with Riversong about latex...........floor finishes as well though. they got a bad rap for years but I've seen some pretty great finishes lately.
They might not hold up as long as oil but over all I think they do pretty well and are a whole lot less hazordous in all kinda ways.
Far as paint goes...paint usually gets redone within 4-5 or less years anyway and they certainly hold up that long.
Ever try Aura latex paint?? EXTREMLY awesome latex paint...expensive but well worth the price in a lot of instances. They get better all the time.
http://www.cliffordrenovations.com
http://www.ramdass.org
love a quality latex, all I use.
nice clean sharp looking job...well done dude!!
http://www.cliffordrenovations.com
http://www.ramdass.org
porter paint, acrylic eggshell, on all trim, tinted to what they call, 2T. Which really means they splash a bit of brown in the white, that while still white, gives it a rich finish. you probably know all this.
shiny eggshell. suprised...
"paint usually gets redone within 4-5 or less years anyway and they certainly hold up that long."I can't agree. I see some folks who can't tolerate a colour more than 2-3 years, but a lot of them keep the same for 20-30 years. Time the drapes are hung and the art is on the wall, you don't notice the paint much anyway
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Time the drapes are hung and the art is on the wall, you don't notice the paint much anyway
Well that I totally agree with...but for those that are a bit nit picky they do repaint within five years from my experience and those that don't probably don't care all that much if the paints faded or whatever it does so using oil seems excessive to me.
I can see oil maybe on trim but now-a-daze I don't see why anyone would bother.
Outside I can understand using oil. I used cottage red Alkyd /oil primer on my entire house topcoated w/BM latex. Over shakes...not shingles Paul...shakes,,,wood shingles (royals are on my roof...lol) it came out bullet proof. It's been several years and it really still looks GREAT! I'm thinking of painting the roof next...hahahaha
http://www.cliffordrenovations.com
http://www.ramdass.org
The one place where it's a good idea to use oil-based paints is handrails. Especially in houses with kids. It's a lot more resistant to the natural oils and moisture (and in the case of kids, dirt) that is commonly found on our hands.
I still like the oil Impervo for int trims myself. A lot of my designer's specs have been for Farrow and Ball paints from Europe, which goes very smooth oil or latex. The painters like it.I think back to the folks I know who paint every few years or less...they seem to me to be the kind of people who are very unhappy with themselves internally, so they try to adjust their outward world in many ways besides just paint colour, in a vain quest to create happiness, when the quest should be an inward journey.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
<Or .. to put it another way .... if paint makers were so smart, why is there still so much Flotrol still used?>lol..that's easy. it goes back to your other statement...<A common thread to all this paint discussion is the overlooking of one fact: painting is a SKILLED trade>there are a lot of novices out there is why flotrol is used. ;)<Indeed, a lot of the 'research' done by paint makers is an attempt to understand just what the painters have already discovered in the field.>That used to be very true, don't know if it still holds true but it shouldour local paint manufacturer's chemist used to ask for our input when formulating paints and we would also field test it for them. good for us and them
Barry E-Remodeler
Excellent response.
Another started his response with "that's because ..." Learned as the rest of the response may have been, I'd just as soon leave that sort of discussion in the lab with the alchemists.
Why? Because, I really don't care. It matters not a whit to me if the maker uses pixie dust or what incantations are chanted.
What matters to me is that I be able to readily identify what a product is for ... and that the description be accurate!
For example, I expect a "plasitic paint" to .... outshine all else as a paint for plastic. A paint for metal to, well, paint metal.
I've heard all manner of "old wives' tales" .... things along the lines of 'primer is just watered down regular paint." Or, that it's all "just marketing." While it sometimes seems that there is some truth in these claims, I have noticed that the marginal performers tend to get weeded out by the market.
Our OP wanted to know if new drywall needed a primer. One answer was spot-on ... a primer will help the different surfaces (mud and paper) blend in. Others have mentioned their disappointemnt in a single coat of 'regular' paint.
I'm sure there are others who can describe other benefits to using a primer on factory-fresh drywall. What really matters, though, is that the OP realize that a primer has it's own job to do ... which may not be the same as the task of the top coat.
<What really matters, though, is that the OP realize that a primer has it's own job to do ... which may not be the same as the task of the top coat.>yep, it seemed like such a simple question with a simple answer... didn't it. I originally decided not to pollute the thread with something the OP couldn't use, such as primer/surfacers like Tuff Hide or Builders Solution. guess that's what makes it BT
Barry E-Remodeler
I just looked, dammm if there isn't primer in my GLUE! Arrrgghhh!
LOLSpheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
They kill Prophets, for Profits.
dang I hate when that happenscould be worse thoughwhat if you were to find glue in the primer?we just might have a new product here :)
Barry E-Remodeler
is the sausage measuring contest over yet?
I hear it's a common problem with sausage measuring...not enough adhesion
Barry E-Remodeler
Not Adhesion, Binding.
lolsomething is in a bind for suremaybe the pump needs priming
Barry E-Remodeler
If you're gonna try to bind my sausage, you got an adhesion coming
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
ever try huffin' latex primer? Ya get all pasty eyed.lol
http://www.cliffordrenovations.com
http://www.ramdass.org
Edited 12/27/2008 10:02 pm ET by andybuildz
Edited 12/27/2008 10:02 pm ET by andybuildz
"One answer was spot-on ... a primer will help the different surfaces (mud and paper) blend in."I think there were two or three of us who gave that answer!
But who's counting?
;)
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
<I think there were two or three of us who gave that answer!
But who's counting?>probably the same 2 or 3 people muddied the water with semanticsbut who's counting. :)
Barry E-Remodeler
LOL, who muddied the water?
I thought that was blood in the primer, ;)
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
<G>I think it was just tinted a little
Barry E-Remodeler
A really light tint in the primer lets you know you are getting good coverage in the topcoat.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
But will it affect the adhesion?
Just like tinting glue for dark woods huh?Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
They kill Prophets, for Profits.
be sure to use a pigmented tint to fill'er
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Did I tint the tint? Maybe I didn't. But the primer went over the latex well.
yeah...but some people seem to mistake it for blood. ;)
Barry E-Remodeler
Absolutely need DW primer before paint, without it the difference between mudded areas and DW paper face will telegraph through in the finish coat of paint.
Same kind of thing for texture. You must primer before texture because the texture will dry differently on the mudded vs. paper areas, and it will telegraph through. You'll need to primer again after texture.
The reason I asked because i was reading over an article here in FHB and the guy said he does not use it unless he using a high gloss sheen. i will use primer thanks for the advice ...
Which article was that? I'd like to read it in context.
I also think that primer is very important to a good job, but I don't think that it's all that important which primer you use. I've had good results with Behr drywall primer and it costs about 1/2 as much as the Benjamin Moore primer that I usually use.
Rolling Interior Latex Wall Paint
A professional painter's hard-won lessons for applying the ubiquitous wall finish
by Byron Papa
Thanks. I was curious if he had any disclaimers or othewise qualified what he wrote abotu not needing a primer. Other than what you mentioned, he did not. I disagree with him along with the others who have posted in this thread.
I always thought you should prime first also, and I am no pro painter, although I have painted some of my new homes myself. I usually tinted the primer the same color as top coat. When getting paint for the last one, a local paint shop owner told me not to bother priming, just use two coats. This is a place that still formulates a lot of thier own paint. the results were good, but I still prefer priming IF i am spraying it on (and backrolling). If you are just rolling it on I have always found primer frustrating, kind of like it is too "sticky".. hard to roll out
I just rented a storage locker, and just slapped some ordinary paint on the age-yellowed drywall.
It looks pretty bad. Certainly needs more coats - or, perhaps, I ought to start over with a primer.
All paints are made up of pigment, adhesive, and carrier. primers have more adhesive ( usually PVA) than top coats. Some drywall primers have filler for texture and sealer also. Most of my work is fully skim coated, so texture is consistent, but when we only tape the joints and leave paper exposed, the primer to event he texture out and maintain consistent reflexivity of light is an absolute necessity. Also, the sealer aspect means the topcoat will cover better with less paint, often doing well in one coat only. Since primer is usually cheaper than topcoat paint, it can mean a materials savings. Skip the primer and you might need three coats of more expensive paint to get good results.
Welcome to the
Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
where ...
Excellence is its own reward!
http://www.naturalhandyman.com/iip/infpai/infvansicklefaq.html
some pretty good info on paints and their chemistry here.
Welcome to the
Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
where ...
Excellence is its own reward!
I am not a painter, I hate to paint, it is by far and away my least favorite activity in my remodels.
Therefore, I like to use whatever products will produce a good looking job in the least possible time -- so I can stop painting.
1) Yes, you need a primer on new drywall.
2) I like BM Fresh Start Primer for several reasons:
- It does a nice job of hiding textural differences between drywall paper and compound.
- It accepts and holds joint compound very well, for touching up those previously unseen glitches in your drywall finishing.
- It is sandable without gumming up the paper.
That's all I know, don't know the chemistry - just know it works.
Jim
One of the major mud manufacturers made a primer that filled in the little pin holes you can end up with in the finished mud. It really made a nice finish but I haven't seen it around here for a year or two.
I like the BM Fress Start but have not used it for new DW. I think the last gal I bought was $27. I use the Glidden PVA which usually runs about $55 for 5 gal.
There is a "vapor barrier and primer sealer" Perma-prep, that I have used from my True Value hardware. It also does a good job but tends to spatter more if you roll a little dry. Only an issue if you have any finished flooring or mouldings.For those who have fought for it Freedom has a flavor the protected will never know.
>>the last gal I bought was $27<<
Like most good things, the price has gone up.
Next to next to last gallon I bought was $32.
Next to last gallon I bought was $35.
Last 5 gallons (available as 1 gallon cans only) were $37.
I still like it!
Seems like a bargain when I buy house paint ------ good marine bottom paints are well over $120. per gallon - always have been pricey, got higher when we had to go first lead free and then copper free.
Gone are the old days when we would buy the cheapest red lead paint we could find (generally a brand called "Red Hand") and then throw in a tablespoon of DDT!
Jim
Never underestimate the value of a sharp pencil or good light.
Another reason I have not used Fresh Start for DW is that it does not seem to have the build or thickness to smooth out any rough spots. That is just a perception on my part and not scientific or even rough tests. Just that some of the cheaper products seem to do a great job.
Now if I am dealing with a previously painted surface or unpainted steel, aluminum, or wood I reach for the FS.
Will try it next time I do a dw repair. For those who have fought for it Freedom has a flavor the protected will never know.
You most certainly do.
Fresh drywall (and compound) will soak up paint like a sponge.
A good primer will both seal the surface and allow your finish paint to bond properly.
J. D. Reynolds
Home Improvements